Sox looking at building in South Loop

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

Not sure why Citi Field is a poor example. For the past 20 years of existence (and for adjacent Shea Stadium's entire life going back to the 60s) it was surrounded by auto-body shops and borderline poverty. But that didn't keep Mets fans away in the past. Good on Steve Cohen for being a responsible owner and attempting to create his own village by his existing stadium -- that's what JR or a new Sox owner should be doing, looking for ways to develop around Sox Park.

As for Pittsburgh and Cincinnatti, these two franchises are routinely at the bottom-third of MLB attendance, despite their relatively new ballparks and whatever attractions they may have on the outside. Unless you're the Cubs or Red Sox, if you don't have a good team, chances are you won't draw, regardless of where you play, 

And yet, despite Pittsburgh and Cincinnati being low in MLB in attendance, those ballparks have been major contributors to urban renewal in those areas.

[77 Hitmen]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Citi Field is a REALLY poor example here, because it is widely thought that the number one reason Steve Cohen bought the Mets and immediately dumped money into it was so that he could build up political good will to get one of three NY State Casino Licenses, to build a casino hotel on the site accompanying that stadium. Cohen has dumped money into the Mets in part because he wants to build the accompanying business, because the combination of the two businesses will allow him to make a fortune.

These are also older stadiums. While they are #1 and #2 in attendance, they aren't the way teams are using stadiums right now. Teams like the Braves and Giants have well established how profitable it is to put a stadium in the middle of an entertainment complex, where the stadium drives revenue that supports the surrounding businesses. Similarly, cities like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have shown how driving foot traffic to downtown areas is a way to massively boost the economic status of a downtown area by bringing in foot traffic. It works, we know this works. It is good for a city, it is good business.

Yep.  Here are Cohen's plans for the area around Citi Field.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-mets-owner-steve-cohen-announces-8b-plan-to-develop-area-around-citi-field-in-queens/4840197/

Also, the Yankees and Dodgers are the platinum franchises of MLB.  Hard to compare them and their combined 35 World Series titles to the White Sox situation.  

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And yet, despite Pittsburgh and Cincinnati being low in MLB in attendance, those ballparks have been major contributors to urban renewal in those areas.

Pittsburgh you also have Heinz Stadium in the immediate vicinity...and 17 consecutive years of .500 and above football takes the edge off Pirates' criticism, just like Royals/Chiefs relationship where one team dominates the marketplace.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

The Mayor of Chicago wants the new Bears stadium and is willing to listen on a new White Sox stadium. Some of the aldermen want the stadiums also, especially the one who is the aldermen  in Bronzeville. ( which is now the preferred site of the Bears)

If you say so.

The mayor also wants to be reelected and the way his administration appears to be incompetent the last thing he wants is a public revolt over giving billionaire owners money.

Anything can happen but the way the wind is blowing as well as numerous statement by the Governor appear to show new stadiums for the McCaskey family and JR are as much a pipe dream as the Bears winning a Super Bowl or the White Sox the World Series. 

[Lyle Moooton]

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Yep.  Here are Cohen's plans for the area around Citi Field.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-york-mets-owner-steve-cohen-announces-8b-plan-to-develop-area-around-citi-field-in-queens/4840197/

Also, the Yankees and Dodgers are the platinum franchises of MLB.  Hard to compare them and their combined 35 World Series titles to the White Sox situation.  

White Sox and Yankees have a combined 30 World Series. Pretty close!

[nitetrain8601]

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

For the record this isn't a property tax issue.

 

5 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Correct, but it will be linked (fairly or not) in the mind of the public at large and groups/individuals will be sure to make that connection public, again fairly or not. 

Under the current climate I can't see any politician willing to stick their neck out for JR or the McCaskey family. 

Correct. In addition, the correlation is going to come from the appetite of tax payers to not feel any relief and probably being asked to pay more in taxes without anything in return. Whether it's a combination of property taxes and hotel tax, or hotel and sales tax, etc.? Is not really the issue. The issue is taxpayers are pretty much done paying for things that have no benefit to them when there is a shortfall.

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, WBWSF said:

The Mayor of Chicago wants the new Bears stadium and is willing to listen on a new White Sox stadium. Some of the aldermen want the stadiums also, especially the one who is the aldermen  in Bronzeville. ( which is now the preferred site of the Bears)

He is a one term mayor. He has already sealed his fate. Ran on no property tax increases.@ year and a half later he proposes a raise. No politician survives that.in one of the wards this past election they asked on a ballot if voters were OK with publicly funding a new Bears stadium. It was trounced. 79 percent said no.

Edited November 13 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He is a one term mayor. He has already sealed his fate. Ran on no property tax increases.@ year and a half later he proposes a raise. No politician survives that.in one of the wards this past election they asked on a ballot if voters were OK with publicly funding a new Bears stadium. It was trounced. 79 percent said no.

Would probably be 90% against now after the last three weeks and a new era of tax cutting being ushered in at the Federal level.

Locally it feels like voters simply got tricked and now fighting against a sneaky bait and switch tactic.

Plus, that whole "job creators" approach just doesn't work with public stadium facility funding anymore...unless you're a city trying to get a team and you've never had one previously.  Trying to change the perception of a city or target an influence of tourism/creating an entertainment and gambling hub.

Edited November 13 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

 

Correct. In addition, the correlation is going to come from the appetite of tax payers to not feel any relief and probably being asked to pay more in taxes without anything in return. Whether it's a combination of property taxes and hotel tax, or hotel and sales tax, etc.? Is not really the issue. The issue is taxpayers are pretty much done paying for things that have no benefit to them when there is a shortfall.

People vote against their self interests all of the time.  They did it a week ago, and will continue to do so with the right story being fed to them.

[Dick Allen]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

People vote against their self interests all of the time.  They did it a week ago, and will continue to do so with the right story being fed to them.

I get this, but JR and the McCaskeys are at a low even for them. Getting public funding, at least anywhere near what they want, is going to be impossible.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I get this, but JR and the McCaskeys are at a low even for them. Getting public funding, at least anywhere near what they want, is going to be impossible.

Do we actually have a good idea of what kind of money the McCaskeys are asking for? Are they asking for the full stadium? My impression was that with the Arlington Heights option they would be putting up a lot of money themselves while developing the surroundings and they ran into what seemed like moderate tax issues, am I wrong somewhere in there?

[Dick Allen]

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Do we actually have a good idea of what kind of money the McCaskeys are asking for? Are they asking for the full stadium? My impression was that with the Arlington Heights option they would be putting up a lot of money themselves while developing the surroundings and they ran into what seemed like moderate tax issues, am I wrong somewhere in there?

I think it was $2.5 billion for the lakefront site. I think they will eventually wind up in Arlington Heights.

[Kyyle23]

47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Do we actually have a good idea of what kind of money the McCaskeys are asking for? Are they asking for the full stadium? My impression was that with the Arlington Heights option they would be putting up a lot of money themselves while developing the surroundings and they ran into what seemed like moderate tax issues, am I wrong somewhere in there?

I have heard some rumors that the issue for Warren is, besides it not being on the lakefront, he was not president when AH site was purchased and it’s not his idea, and he really isn’t into it being there at all.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think the Bears quickly land a deal to move over to the old hospital site as was reported yesterday. I’ve heard Arlington Heights is dead. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I get this, but JR and the McCaskeys are at a low even for them. Getting public funding, at least anywhere near what they want, is going to be impossible.

You have a higher view of humanity than I do.

[Texsox]

Technically isn't this another rebuild? 

[tray]

Oh well, U of I Discovery Partners (another in a long list of proposed anchor tenants for the 78 ) is out. Related is now suggesting that the Chicago Fire could build a soccer stadium there (no doubt, look for more impressive architectural renderings to follow).

https://www.connectcre.com/stories/university-of-illinois-pivots-from-plans-at-the-78/

Dead in the water.

Edited Thursday at 02:35 AM by tray

[mac9001]

Brownsville site seems a little small for a football stadium build. The 78 seemed like a bit of a squeeze for even a baseball stadium. AH should just force the Bears to do something with the land. Build something or pass some zoning changes to force them to sell. 

There's been some insanely impressive development around new stadiums lately all over the country. It just seems like neither the Sox or Bears are truly serious about building unless they can get a massive handout and if anything ever gets built it'll probably be another cheap half assed approach like their current stadiums.

[BrittBurnsFan]

18 hours ago, waltwilliams said:

I've been to Yankee Stadium (the old one) and Dodger Stadium a few times. There is probably less to do outside those ballparks than there is at Sox Park. (Yankee Stadium has a dive bar named Stan's nearby, but not much else). And yet, these two teams are routinely one and two in attendance. It's not because they have cool places outside the ballpark -- it's because of the winning traditions that both teams have. Same thing with Citi Field -- it looks like a third world country outside that stadium. But the Mets routinely draw between 2.5 million and 3 million.

Dodger Stadium is the 3rd oldest in MLB and it feels like it!  Still a beautiful park to watch a baseball game in it though!  They and KCR renovated the outfield in an attempt to make the ballpark about things other than the game but even then both ballparks (Dodger and Kaufmann) feel stale.  The problem for Dodger is that there is hardly any public transportation in LA so Dodger has to be in the middle of parking lots.  

[southsider2k5]

12 hours ago, mac9001 said:

Brownsville site seems a little small for a football stadium build. The 78 seemed like a bit of a squeeze for even a baseball stadium. AH should just force the Bears to do something with the land. Build something or pass some zoning changes to force them to sell. 

There's been some insanely impressive development around new stadiums lately all over the country. It just seems like neither the Sox or Bears are truly serious about building unless they can get a massive handout and if anything ever gets built it'll probably be another cheap half assed approach like their current stadiums.

Isn't that Bronzeville?

[Lip Man 1]

Rep. John Cabello (R-Machesney Park). "We've got to do what's best for number one, the taxpayers, number two, the citizens of the state of Illinois."

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/bad-performance-plans-taxpayer-stadiums-bears-white-sox/

[Timmy U]

On 11/14/2024 at 9:51 AM, BrittBurnsFan said:

Dodger Stadium is the 3rd oldest in MLB and it feels like it!  Still a beautiful park to watch a baseball game in it though!  They and KCR renovated the outfield in an attempt to make the ballpark about things other than the game but even then both ballparks (Dodger and Kaufmann) feel stale.  The problem for Dodger is that there is hardly any public transportation in LA so Dodger has to be in the middle of parking lots.  

There is public transport now, but everything near a subway is getting huge apartment blocks built on it. There’s no huge tracts with good infrastructure nearby that is not already spoken for. The Dodgers would kill for the set up the Bears are rejecting in Arlington Heights.

[The Mighty Mite]

On 11/14/2024 at 9:51 AM, BrittBurnsFan said:

Dodger Stadium is the 3rd oldest in MLB and it feels like it!  Still a beautiful park to watch a baseball game in it though!  They and KCR renovated the outfield in an attempt to make the ballpark about things other than the game but even then both ballparks (Dodger and Kaufmann) feel stale.  The problem for Dodger is that there is hardly any public transportation in LA so Dodger has to be in the middle of parking lots.  

I’ve been to Dodger Stadium, the edifice itself is no better than GRF, it’s the setting itself that makes its sort of cool sitting in Chavez Ravine and with the grandstand actually built into the side of a mountain. It’s a nightmare getting out of the parking lot and there is absolutely nothing around the place.

 

Edited Sunday at 01:43 PM by The Mighty Mite

[WBWSF]

I just saw a video on Youtube that claims the bonds needed for the proposed new Rays stadium was not passed. Good chance the Rays will move the team  now. I remember when JR said that St.Pete was a better business model than the southside of Chicago. I also remember when Eddie Einhorn said Florida was the greatest opportunity for MLB since the Dodgers moved to LA.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I just saw a video on Youtube that claims the bonds needed for the proposed new Rays stadium was not passed. Good chance the Rays will move the team  now. I remember when JR said that St.Pete was a better business model than the southside of Chicago. I also remember when Eddie Einhorn said Florida was the greatest opportunity for MLB since the Dodgers moved to LA.

I haven't seen this reported anywhere can you provide a link to what you watched.