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Sox looking at building in South Loop


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3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

While it's all exciting to talk about and the stadium wold be a great place to watch games, my bet it's all a negotiating ploy to get a better deal for when the lease is up in 5 years for the current ballpark. 

That's probably correct. I think a ballpark in the South Loop would have been great. But it's billions, and unless its mostly done privately, it makes no sense in today's world. The state and city have no money, and they have a ballpark. And JR's motto has always been other people's money. He doesn't want to shell out for this. Maybe the developer wants it so bad they will do something. But it seems like the longest of long shots.

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10 minutes ago, Quin said:

It lets him build LaRussa's Lounge AND Loretta's Lounge, making it so he can do right by TLR (in his eyes) without controversy 

And let's Tony manage an entire stadium complex project, instead of just a team...

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33 minutes ago, ptatc said:

While it's all exciting to talk about and the stadium wold be a great place to watch games, my bet it's all a negotiating ploy to get a better deal for when the lease is up in 5 years for the current ballpark. 

I think this ignores the incentive for the current land owners and developers to try and get the stadium too.

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think this ignores the incentive for the current land owners and developers to try and get the stadium too.

That's what I keep coming back to. Why would Related get involved in a leverage play? That doesn't make any sense for them. 

The Casino plan failed, they're onto what's next. They NEED the SOX more than vice versa.  

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think this ignores the incentive for the current land owners and developers to try and get the stadium too.

This is why I'm actually hopeful that this isn't just some grand ruse. This isn't just JR alone saber rattling about a new stadium, the developers of the stalled 78 project seem to have a vested interest as well. I'm sure the city wants this large swatch of ugly open space in the bright shiny new South Loop developed into something that contributes to the tax base, while removing a massive eyesore adjacent to downtown. 

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4 minutes ago, soxfan18 said:

That's what I keep coming back to. Why would Related get involved in a leverage play? That doesn't make any sense for them. 

The Casino plan failed, they're onto what's next. They NEED the SOX more than vice versa.  

If JR gets a decent taste of this project, and not just the stadium itself, he comes out WAAAAAAAY ahead, which is why he is interested.

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9 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think this ignores the incentive for the current land owners and developers to try and get the stadium too.

Sure they would like to get it, but at least $1 billion for the stadium is a steep price to pay, and how are they going to get any of that back? Apartments and condos maybe, but if they are so lucrative, why haven't they built anything yet?

To me, it's the best site for a White Sox park available. But it costs too much, and who really would put up the cash? You need someone like Steve Cohen or someone else who isn't keeping score with how much money they have when they die. If Pat Ryan were involved, I would think there's a chance. But JR? No way.

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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Sure they would like to get it, but at least $1 billion for the stadium is a steep price to pay, and how are they going to get any of that back? Apartments and condos maybe, but if they are so lucrative, why haven't they built anything yet?

To me, it's the best site for a White Sox park available. But it costs too much, and who really would put up the cash? You need someone like Steve Cohen or someone else who isn't keeping score with how much money they have when they die. If Pat Ryan were involved, I would think there's a chance. But JR? No way.

Condos and apartments near the loop but next to a large set of commerce rail...$

Condos and apartments near the loop and next to an entertainment center and baseball stadium...$$$

NFL has started to create loans for these types of projects too. JR has been a good soldier, wouldn't be surprised if MLB starts getting into the land and property game as well.

 

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The area around the braves is generating around $60 million in profit this year for Atlanta Braves holdings. That's basically in the suburbs. Should be easy to generate more year round revenue in this space. 

Good projects die all the time, but there is a reason this suddenly popped up outside JR personally manifesting it.

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If greed was not a factor by owners/developers and the City, I think a nice 9 hole golf course, outdoor running track, and a park with an outdoor skating rink would be the highest and best use. That would add green space and beautify the city-scape.  This parcel is a no-go for any major development otherwise. Too many issues with it that have caused other proposals (including a recent very ambitious one) to fail. There must be other options for a location that are way less problematic. Why go out and look for major problems? Jerry is way too smart to get involved in that century old Area 78 nightmare.

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Condos and apartments near the loop but next to a large set of commerce rail...$

Condos and apartments near the loop and next to an entertainment center and baseball stadium...$$$

NFL has started to create loans for these types of projects too. JR has been a good soldier, wouldn't be surprised if MLB starts getting into the land and property game as well.

 

This is a good point.  Don't forget before Jerry came along and got a stadium built and paid for, no one in baseball had built a new stadium since the early 70's.  He might have screwed the pooch on the design by being first and not seeing what the future looked like, but he sure as hell got the best possible deal.  If the reporting of his interest in this project is accurate, it means he is going to make a metricfuckton of money on it, otherwise he'd still be sniffing around other places, or wouldn't be looking at it.  If it was a better deal to stay on 35th, he wouldn't be negotiating.

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5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Condos and apartments near the loop but next to a large set of commerce rail...$

Condos and apartments near the loop and next to an entertainment center and baseball stadium...$$$

NFL has started to create loans for these types of projects too. JR has been a good soldier, wouldn't be surprised if MLB starts getting into the land and property game as well.

 

Maybe, but if you know anyone who lives by Wrigley, unless you are a Cubs fanatic and like the location to attend games, it's a nightmare with the heavier traffic, puking and pissing on game days. 

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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Maybe, but if you know anyone who lives by Wrigley, unless you are a Cubs fanatic and like the location to attend games, it's a nightmare with the heavier traffic, puking and pissing on game days. 

"nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded!"

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is a good point.  Don't forget before Jerry came along and got a stadium built and paid for, no one in baseball had built a new stadium since the early 70's.  He might have screwed the pooch on the design by being first and not seeing what the future looked like, but he sure as hell got the best possible deal.  If the reporting of his interest in this project is accurate, it means he is going to make a metricfuckton of money on it, otherwise he'd still be sniffing around other places, or wouldn't be looking at it.  If it was a better deal to stay on 35th, he wouldn't be negotiating.

Braves holdings already looking at like $60mill annually on their "mixed use real estate" holding. I'd imagine given the location this could have a bigger impact at getting year round revenue. Though it may very well have smaller footprint so I'm not sure.

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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is a good point.  Don't forget before Jerry came along and got a stadium built and paid for, no one in baseball had built a new stadium since the early 70's.  He might have screwed the pooch on the design by being first and not seeing what the future looked like, but he sure as hell got the best possible deal.  If the reporting of his interest in this project is accurate, it means he is going to make a metricfuckton of money on it, otherwise he'd still be sniffing around other places, or wouldn't be looking at it.  If it was a better deal to stay on 35th, he wouldn't be negotiating.

He has to create something either real or fake to help his hand if he was to re-up on 35th Street. Chances are, he isn't getting the sweetheart deal he got the first time. 

Although , even if the park is giving tremendous updates and the area around it is developed, how can anyone project attendance will pop unless the team plays well? Maybe in the 78 that changes.

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3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He has to create something either real or fake to help his hand if he was to re-up on 35th Street. Chances are, he isn't getting the sweetheart deal he got the first time. 

Although , even if the park is giving tremendous updates and the area around it is developed, how can anyone project attendance will pop unless the team plays well? Maybe in the 78 that changes.

He's already negotiating this with many of the same people who would be involved on 35th, so kind of hard to create leverage when you know both sides.

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18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's already negotiating this with many of the same people who would be involved on 35th, so kind of hard to create leverage when you know both sides.

He hasn't talked to the ISFA at all. And there is no way they are going to give him billions to build a new stadium. His only hope is to find someone who will if he won't do it himself.  If he can, then he has the ISFA over a barrel. Now, not so much.

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13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He hasn't talked to the ISFA at all. And there is no way they are going to give him billions to build a new stadium. His only hope is to find someone who will if he won't do it himself.  If he can, then he has the ISFA over a barrel. Now, not so much.

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2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

He has never been all in on anything during his 43+ year reign. Hard to believe that starts now. It certainly hasn't with the team.

I mean, it seems like he’s trying to increase the value of franchise before he dies and passes it on to his kids to sell in exchange for generational wealth.  Nothing he could really do up until now given the timing of his current leave agreement.

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