Sox looking at building in South Loop

[Green Line]

1 minute ago, A-Train to 35th said:

$60, 70, 80, $100 (supply and demand) to park a car to have the privilege to purchase beer for $12 a can, NO THANKS.

Yeah, supply and demand.  If its that expensive, there must be a lot of demand.  Certainly not going to "sink the franchise", which is what I was responding to.  I personally wouldn't pay it either.

[Highland]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Then be willing to have the team move if they get a better offer. Match the offer or risk having Chicago be a one team city. 

I'd like to see a bidding war between Arlington Heights and Chicago for the team. 

I am willing to let the team move. I'll help them pack.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

And how did JR leaving the Bulls to his son work out?  SELL JR SELL!

I really couldn't give two shits less about the Bulls but I would think it's worked out great for Jerry and Michael.

[The Grinder]

I believe it was here I read where a competent owner and management team was put into place, the Sox would be a goldmine. I have to agree, we dont necessarily need a new park as bad as we need a new owner

 

Going against the cubs is a formidable task no doubt. But everything is cyclomatic (if thats even a word) and we've been #2 for a long long time. Time we changed that.

 

BTW how are local cub fans reacting to this yrs Sox? I really cant say they have been too condescending in these parts, maybe they feel sorry for us?? (cant be!)

[NO!!MARY!!!]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

I am willing to let the team move. I'll help them pack.

Chill out. 

[nitetrain8601]

Looking at the Bears presentation, the stadium looks nice. No new taxes. Replacing existing Soldier Field with pure green space. I think the Bears beat the Sox to it. 

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

I am willing to let the team move. I'll help them pack.

As a current out of state fan I was ripped for having that point of view. I believe now it's a local decision and whatever the voters decide is fine with me. But rewarding this franchise with another stadium annoys me. 

[The Beast]

4 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Oh, absolutely I think a new Sox owner would want the team to play at the South Loop site instead of being locked in long-term at Guaranteed Rate Field in an area that just doesn't draw much visitors outside of attending a baseball game.  Catering to fans who want a ballpark surrounded by a sea of parking lots isn't working out and isn't a good business model going forward.

My guess is that if the team was sold in the next year or two (let's say Jerry suddenly passes) and The 78 lot was still available, they'd find a way to come up with $1B or so in private funding to make that ballpark happen because they realize that would boost market share and revenue for this team plus give a huge boost to the value of the franchise.  

As far as whether a new owner would move them out of state.  I wouldn't say the chances of it are zero.  The other markets don't compare to Chicago now, but they are booming.  What if the new owner has roots in North Carolina or San Antonio?  It's not implausible that they'd buy the team and move it to their home state.  Utah has given the green light to spend $900M in public funds toward a new MLB stadium - do people really think that there isn't a buyer out there who wouldn't jump at the chance to play there instead of being the forgotten stepchild in Chicago being forever overshadowed by the Cubs and playing at what will soon be a 40-year old generic ballpark with not much around it?

Then the Sox should be prepared to not have fans in the middle class attend games either on a regular basis or at all. Those tailgating lots and parking spots make all of the difference for affordability to go to games. If they went to the loop and didn’t have much parking, they would need to ensure more fans attend games and that richer fans/more corporate types made going to Sox games a regular thing.

1 hour ago, The Grinder said:

I believe it was here I read where a competent owner and management team was put into place, the Sox would be a goldmine. I have to agree, we dont necessarily need a new park as bad as we need a new owner

 

Going against the cubs is a formidable task no doubt. But everything is cyclomatic (if thats even a word) and we've been #2 for a long long time. Time we changed that.

 

BTW how are local cub fans reacting to this yrs Sox? I really cant say they have been too condescending in these parts, maybe they feel sorry for us?? (cant be!)

Cubs fans have seen the record but there’s no need to be condescending. It’s clear the Sox suck and we have a crappy owner. I think the Cubs and Sox rivalry over the years has kind of died down now that both franchises have won a World Series.

1 hour ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Looking at the Bears presentation, the stadium looks nice. No new taxes. Replacing existing Soldier Field with pure green space. I think the Bears beat the Sox to it. 

There will be taxes of some kind. They haven’t even approached the state or had anything voted on yet.

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

As a current out of state fan I was ripped for having that point of view. I believe now it's a local decision and whatever the voters decide is fine with me. But rewarding this franchise with another stadium annoys me. 

Especially when there is nothing wrong with the facility they have aside from not maximizing profits with a neighborhood around the stadium.

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Looking at the Bears presentation, the stadium looks nice. No new taxes. Replacing existing Soldier Field with pure green space. I think the Bears beat the Sox to it. 

If course there is the misdirection. No new taxes for the stadium because we pulled money from this other pile. Oops, now we need a new tax for that pile. So no new taxes for the stadium.

It's basically how state lotteries didn't create a net gain for schools. They dumped the lottery proceeds into the pot, but then stopped putting as much from taxes. 

[Falstaff]

The City of Chicago just made an offer to the White Sox, they will give them $200 million to leave the City. The State of Illinois will kick in an additional $400 million if they move out of Illinois.

[tray]

6 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Oh, absolutely I think a new Sox owner would want the team to play at the South Loop site instead of being locked in long-term at Guaranteed Rate Field in an area that just doesn't draw much visitors outside of attending a baseball game.  Catering to fans who want a ballpark surrounded by a sea of parking lots isn't working out and isn't a good business model going forward.

?

Drawing visitors to the immediate area without dedicated parking is heavily steeped in the Cubfan mindset.  Be a Cub fan if that is what you like to do. Quick and Easy to get up there and back home from the South side after you are done carousing with other Cub fans at local bars.

We drive to games and sometimes go to Manny's Tufano's, Greek Islands, China Town, Stix n'Brix, Ricobene's, Turtle's, Cork and Kerry, Girodanos, Gino's East, Gatto's, Cooper's Hawk, Lou Malnati's, or countless other places in and around downtown Chicago or in our case, the Southwest suburbs.

WSox have been on 35th for over 100 years. They can easily build on the site of the original Comiskey or other sites preferably near the Lakefront (like the old Michael Reese hospital site) , but not that hole in the ground / aka the 78. That thing is a joke architecturally, financially,  and practically.

Meanwhile there is a frost warning in Chicago. We need warmer weather and a win or two before the Sox return for their next homestand. I will be there unless it is still freezing out. Let's Go Sox !

[bmags]

3 hours ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Looking at the Bears presentation, the stadium looks nice. No new taxes. Replacing existing Soldier Field with pure green space. I think the Bears beat the Sox to it. 

100% they did, and the mayor is standing next to them as they do it.

[nitetrain8601]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Then the Sox should be prepared to not have fans in the middle class attend games either on a regular basis or at all. Those tailgating lots and parking spots make all of the difference for affordability to go to games. If they went to the loop and didn’t have much parking, they would need to ensure more fans attend games and that richer fans/more corporate types made going to Sox games a regular thing.

Cubs fans have seen the record but there’s no need to be condescending. It’s clear the Sox suck and we have a crappy owner. I think the Cubs and Sox rivalry over the years has kind of died down now that both franchises have won a World Series.

There will be taxes of some kind. They haven’t even approached the state or had anything voted on yet.

 

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

If course there is the misdirection. No new taxes for the stadium because we pulled money from this other pile. Oops, now we need a new tax for that pile. So no new taxes for the stadium.

It's basically how state lotteries didn't create a net gain for schools. They dumped the lottery proceeds into the pot, but then stopped putting as much from taxes. 

They're basically going to use the hotel tax at 2% that ISFA uses. I could see them increasing that to 3% even which isn't taxing residents. With that stated, you build that stadium, you also expect to have a lot more hotel tenants with the events lining up such as Final Four for men's and women's, Wrestlemania, Super Bowl, International Soccer, and Olympics (I see them bidding in the next 3 cycles). It could work. 

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

100% they did, and the mayor is standing next to them as they do it.

Yep. And I'm happy for that. Force JR's hand.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Drawing visitors to the immediate area without dedicated parking is heavily steeped in the Cubfan mindset.  Be a Cub fan if that is what you like to do. Quick and Easy to get up there and back home from the South side after you are done carousing with other Cub fans at local bars.

We drive to games and sometimes go to Manny's Tufano's, Greek Islands, China Town, Stix n'Brix, Ricobene's, Turtle's, Cork and Kerry, Girodanos, Gino's East, Gatto's, Cooper's Hawk, Lou Malnati's, or countless other places in and around downtown Chicago or in our case, the Southwest suburbs.

WSox have been on 35th for over 100 years. They can easily build on the site of the original Comiskey or other sites preferably near the Lakefront (like the old Michael Reese hospital site) , but not that hole in the ground / aka the 78. That thing is a joke architecturally, financially,  and practically.

Meanwhile there is a frost warning in Chicago. We need warmer weather and a win or two before the Sox return for their next homestand. I will be there unless it is still freezing out. Let's Go Sox !

I am pretty sure that White Sox fans are smart enough to figure out public transit, and if they aren't, how to use one of the million apps for finding a parking place in an urban setting.  Honestly, holding the idea that Sox fans aren't smart enough to use a freaking train is pretty insulting to the fan base.

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, nitetrain8601 said:

 

They're basically going to use the hotel tax at 2% that ISFA uses. I could see them increasing that to 3% even which isn't taxing residents. With that stated, you build that stadium, you also expect to have a lot more hotel tenants with the events lining up such as Final Four for men's and women's, Wrestlemania, Super Bowl, International Soccer, and Olympics (I see them bidding in the next 3 cycles). It could work. 

Yep. And I'm happy for that. Force JR's hand.

But what happens if the hotel tax revenue is short and the Sox and or Bears stadium relies on that revenue? I have to think taxes will be coming from the infrastructure that would be needed unless that came from the capital projects law Pritzker signed.

[77 Hitmen]

5 hours ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Looking at the Bears presentation, the stadium looks nice. No new taxes. Replacing existing Soldier Field with pure green space. I think the Bears beat the Sox to it. 

According to the Sun-Times, the Bears proposal would still leave enough money from the hotel tax to fund a new Sox ballpark.  So, I don't see this as the Bears beating the Sox to that funding source.  

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024/04/23/bears-new-stadium-dome-lakefront-soldier-field

[77 Hitmen]

57 minutes ago, The Beast said:

But what happens if the hotel tax revenue is short and the Sox and or Bears stadium relies on that revenue? I have to think taxes will be coming from the infrastructure that would be needed unless that came from the capital projects law Pritzker signed.

IMO, this will be the make-or-break issue for the Sox and Bears proposals.  It's one thing to get public funding solely by extending the current hotel tax, but who picks up any shortfalls?  It should be the teams that are on the hook for this.  

Infrastructure costs will be another issue that'll need to be settled.  Some of that would certainly come from public funding, but how much of that could be justified and approved?  I know that some people will argue that there shouldn't be a single dime spent even on infrastructure needed for these projects, but I think that's an easier sell to the public.  I guess we'll see.   

Edited April 24 by 77 Hitmen

[77 Hitmen]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am pretty sure that White Sox fans are smart enough to figure out public transit, and if they aren't, how to use one of the million apps for finding a parking place in an urban setting.  Honestly, holding the idea that Sox fans aren't smart enough to use a freaking train is pretty insulting to the fan base.

The trend nationwide is toward stadiums without the acres of parking lots around them.  See what the Mets and Phillies/Eagles are proposing. 

Even if the Sox stay at GRF, I expect much of the parking lots to be converted to mixed use development at some point.  

[Lip Man 1]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024/04/23/bears-new-stadium-dome-lakefront-soldier-field

The political obstacles include a cold reception from Gov. J.B. Pritzker and legislative leaders with more important priorities and the very real potential for a legal battle with Friends of the Parks, the public advocacy group that serves as the primary protector of the lakefront and enforcer of the Lakefront Protection Ordinance that prohibits new construction east of Lake Shore Drive.

And it will indeed be difficult to get any help from Pritzker, who was not invited to Wednesday’s big reveal. He has been critical of early reports the Bears would ask for taxpayer assistance, and remained so on Wednesday.

“I’m highly skeptical of the proposal that’s been made and I believe strongly that this is not a high priority for legislators and certainly not for me, when I compare it to all the other things,” Pritzker said at a news conference Wednesday in Maywood.

[Green Line]

I fully support my tax dollars going to new stadiums for both teams.  Take my money.

[Rusty]

6 hours ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Looking at the Bears presentation, the stadium looks nice. No new taxes. Replacing existing Soldier Field with pure green space. I think the Bears beat the Sox to it. 

“No new taxes” is a disgusting marketing term.  It’s a 40 year extension of the existing hotel tax that is currently funding state financing that is $600+ million in the hole still from GRF and the SF renovations.

[Big Hurtin]

52 minutes ago, Rusty said:

“No new taxes” is a disgusting marketing term.  It’s a 40 year extension of the existing hotel tax that is currently funding state financing that is $600+ million in the hole still from GRF and the SF renovations.

"Read my lips..."

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Big Hurtin said:

"Read my lips..."

And that was the end of Bush Sr.

[Lightly Folded]

5 hours ago, bmags said:

100% they did, and the mayor is standing next to them as they do it.

Just like George Hallas and the Bears helped chase the Cardinals out of Chicago in the late 1950’s they are now helping to shaft the White Sox into oblivion.