ST Thread

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Today's happy news:

Joking aside... this is nice

[poppysox]

17 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I hope I don't come off as attacking, but if the Sox are bidding up against the Yankees and world champions, I'm not sure what makes anybody think we would outbid anyone, even with a normal owner. What did Lorenzen even sign for? Why would he come to a last place team, go 1-12, then have to uproot his life in 4 months, not see his family regularly for 3 more months, ..... for what? 

The same with Montgomery. This is his free agency he's worked 20 years for. Why do we think guys want to be traded in the middle of a season if they can help it?

If he is truly an ace...he wins with us and enhances his future value.  This team is loads better than people are thinking.

[Lip Man 1]

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If he is truly an ace...he wins with us and enhances his future value.  This team is loads better than people are thinking.

We'll find out soon enough I guess. 

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, poppysox said:

This team is loads better than people are thinking.

No, it really isn’t.

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If he is truly an ace...he wins with us and enhances his future value.  This team is loads better than people are thinking.

While I do share your higher opinion about this team's chances, I still don't see why anybody would come here for the same money they can get anywhere else. His future value is pretty much maxed out. He's 30, it's payday. 

[poppysox]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

While I do share your higher opinion about this team's chances, I still don't see why anybody would come here for the same money they can get anywhere else. His future value is pretty much maxed out. He's 30, it's payday. 

You would need to severely overpay me to live in New York.  Many variables involved in offers with the primary one being money.

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

You would need to severely overpay me to live in New York.  Many variables involved in offers with the primary one being money.

Sure, and another is not being traded. I think a player and his family would like to pick where they're going to live for the next year, and not be separated by a trade in 4 months. If Montgomery's going to end up doing what Snell did, take a 2 year deal with an opt out, I think he might want to be a little more high profile instead of being buried on one of the 5 worst teams in the game. 

I don't even know who's looking for pitching, at this point. But I think the White Sox would be the absolute last choice, even considering whatever just happened to Kevin Pillar. Players notice that. There was a handful of players who wouldn't take any amount of money to play for the White Sox after the '94 strike. Curt Schilling and Jim Edmonds are two that come to mind quickly. 

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, poppysox said:

You would need to severely overpay me to live in New York.  Many variables involved in offers with the primary one being money.

Montgomery was drafted by the Yankees and played the first 5+ years of his career there.  The Yankees are expected to be a contender while the Sox are expected to be a last place team.  It’s great that you hate New York but if any team would have to overpay Montgomery to play for them, it would be the Sox.

[poppysox]

29 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Montgomery was drafted by the Yankees and played the first 5+ years of his career there.  The Yankees are expected to be a contender while the Sox are expected to be a last place team.  It’s great that you hate New York but if any team would have to overpay Montgomery to play for them, it would be the Sox.

Maybe

[poppysox]

33 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Sure, and another is not being traded. I think a player and his family would like to pick where they're going to live for the next year, and not be separated by a trade in 4 months. If Montgomery's going to end up doing what Snell did, take a 2 year deal with an opt out, I think he might want to be a little more high profile instead of being buried on one of the 5 worst teams in the game. 

I don't even know who's looking for pitching, at this point. But I think the White Sox would be the absolute last choice, even considering whatever just happened to Kevin Pillar. Players notice that. There was a handful of players who wouldn't take any amount of money to play for the White Sox after the '94 strike. Curt Schilling and Jim Edmonds are two that come to mind quickly. 

Yeah...it takes all kinds.  Still think if we wanted him...offer the most money.  By the way...where did that 5 worst teams remark come from?  Have you gone over to the dark side?

[Tony]

21 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...it takes all kinds.  Still think if we wanted him...offer the most money.  By the way...where did that 5 worst teams remark come from?  Have you gone over to the dark side?

By dark side, do you mean using objective facts in an argument? 

[WestEddy]

22 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...it takes all kinds.  Still think if we wanted him...offer the most money.  By the way...where did that 5 worst teams remark come from?  Have you gone over to the dark side?

Of course not. But I still think about 68 wins. They need a lot to go right, and they're not known for their good luck. I think Soroka looks great, Fedde and Flexen could be solid. Crochet could put up a good half, then do an inning or 2 on 5 days rest when Davis Martin comes back. Nastrini will have some bumps in the road. I like the bullpen, but again, a lot has to go right. 

I think they did turn RF, SS, 2B and C around from last year. LF, 3B, 1B and DH have a lot of wins to pick up, just based on 4 horrible years by vets in 2023. So there's a lot of room to grow. 

I understand what you're saying about paying Montgomery enough money. But it's like a black hole, when escape velocity exceeds the speed of light, you're stuck. This off-season sure feels like collusion. And a bigger story is MLB clawing back broadcasting rights, as cable is looking to go the way of long-distance phone companies. 

[WestEddy]

28 minutes ago, Tony said:

By dark side, do you mean using objective facts in an argument? 

I think he means being reflexively negative about everything, even areas that are demonstrably positive. We're all using facts. I find the "everybody on this pitching staff blows" comments to be remarkably light on any factual information, and way heavy on emotion.

[T R U]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think he means being reflexively negative about everything, even areas that are demonstrably positive. We're all using facts. I find the "everybody on this pitching staff blows" comments to be remarkably light on any factual information, and way heavy on emotion.

Oh really?

Crochet - Hasn't started a game since college and has pitched 12 inning over the last 2 years. This is our #1.

Soroka - Has pitched about 45 innings the past 4 seasons, and was awful last year.

Fedde - Hasn't pitched in the MLB since 2022, and was awful.

Flexen - 6.86 ERA in 100 IP last season, awful.

There is plenty of factual information to show our rotation is going to blow. There is actually no factual information to the contrary however. Just a lot of "what ifs".

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

Oh really?

Crochet - Hasn't started a game since college and has pitched 12 inning over the last 2 years. This is our #1.

Soroka - Has pitched about 45 innings the past 4 seasons, and was awful last year.

Fedde - Hasn't pitched in the MLB since 2022, and was awful.

Flexen - 6.86 ERA in 100 IP last season, awful.

There is plenty of factual information to show our rotation is going to blow. There is actually no factual information to the contrary however. Just a lot of "what ifs".

I can point to an individual or two and build a narrative that they will have a decent season -- but the staff, overall? There's no way it's anything better than "mediocre" and probably will be "bad bordering on awful" all year long. We just don't have the horses. If you had a Chris Sale or even MB you could rely on for 180 good innings things would look a little different and everybody could slot back one, but those guys aren't walking through the door.

[poppysox]

42 minutes ago, Tony said:

By dark side, do you mean using objective facts in an argument? 

No...I mean 100% negative all the time.

[T R U]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I can point to an individual or two and build a narrative that they will have a decent season -- but the staff, overall? There's no way it's anything better than "mediocre" and probably will be "bad bordering on awful" all year long. We just don't have the horses. If you had a Chris Sale or even MB you could rely on for 180 good innings things would look a little different and everybody could slot back one, but those guys aren't walking through the door.

Sure, but building a narrative isn't factual. Could Soroka get "it" back. Yes. Could Fedde have reinvented himself? Yes.

Factual: Erick Fedde has been terrible in the MLB.

Not Factual: Erick Fedde was the KBO MVP last season, so that means he is now a good MLB pitcher.

[Tony]

15 minutes ago, poppysox said:

No...I mean 100% negative all the time.

They are also, objectively, one of the worst franchises in baseball over the last decade

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

They are also, objectively, one of the worst franchises in baseball over the last decade

The beatings will continue until morale improves...

[ChiSox59]

20 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I didn’t really think about it this way, and I’m not surprised Getz would try to save $2 million where he could (if not breaking any MLB rules), but Pillar’s comments are pretty telling.  He’s definitely upset by the last minute bait and switch.

I mean, he was welcome to sign elsewhere for more money.  There's a reason he didn't. 

[WestEddy]

35 minutes ago, T R U said:

Oh really?

Crochet - Hasn't started a game since college and has pitched 12 inning over the last 2 years. This is our #1.

Soroka - Has pitched about 45 innings the past 4 seasons, and was awful last year.

Fedde - Hasn't pitched in the MLB since 2022, and was awful.

Flexen - 6.86 ERA in 100 IP last season, awful.

There is plenty of factual information to show our rotation is going to blow. There is actually no factual information to the contrary however. Just a lot of "what ifs".

Soroka actually threw about 120 innings between AAA and the majors last year alone. You only missed by about 75 innings. Are you implying that no pitcher has ever come back from an injury? That doesn't sound factual. 

I would say that Soroka is going to be the main pitcher on this staff. Starting opening day doesn't really mean #1. 

As for Fedde and Flexen, Fedde just won the equivalent of a Cy Young and MVP in a league that is somewhere between AA and AAA in level of talent. He seems to be improved from the pitcher he was in 2022. You do realize that pitchers work with new coaches and get better, right? If you don't, maybe you shouldn't be calling your emotional opinions factual. 

All you're dealing in is "what if's", too. That's all the projections are. Let me know when you stumble upon some factual information. 

 

[WestEddy]

37 minutes ago, T R U said:

Sure, but building a narrative isn't factual. Could Soroka get "it" back. Yes. Could Fedde have reinvented himself? Yes.

Factual: Erick Fedde has been terrible in the MLB.

Not Factual: Erick Fedde was the KBO MVP last season, so that means he is now a good MLB pitcher.

Of course it is. We all don't have to parrot negative BS until Oct 1, then concede that not every single player, to a man, blew. 

Tell me about this crazy new stat "blows". Can you post an algorhythm so we can compare players in the game? Or is it all your own subjective, emotional opinion? Does somebody stop "blowing" when enough emotional bro-dudes get aggressive when talking about their love for this player? Is that really a measurable stat?

Factual: Erick Fedde worked with new coaches in Korea and stateside, developed new pitches, and has a better approach that could have success against MLB hitters. 

Factual: Michael Soroka is returning from an injury that other players have returned from. He pitched 120 innings last year (strange how you skipped over that fact), and looked even better in spring training. 

Not Factual: Everybody blows!!! 

[WestEddy]

53 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I can point to an individual or two and build a narrative that they will have a decent season -- but the staff, overall? There's no way it's anything better than "mediocre" and probably will be "bad bordering on awful" all year long. We just don't have the horses. If you had a Chris Sale or even MB you could rely on for 180 good innings things would look a little different and everybody could slot back one, but those guys aren't walking through the door.

Only 25 pitchers threw 180 innings last season. 2 of them were on the Sox staff until the trade deadline. How did that work out? Flexen threw 110 innings last year, Fedde threw 180. Soroka threw 120. 

I'm not saying any of these guys will compete for a Cy Young. This whole narrative that our entire staff is made up of failures is a bit much. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Sure, and another is not being traded. I think a player and his family would like to pick where they're going to live for the next year, and not be separated by a trade in 4 months. If Montgomery's going to end up doing what Snell did, take a 2 year deal with an opt out, I think he might want to be a little more high profile instead of being buried on one of the 5 worst teams in the game. 

I don't even know who's looking for pitching, at this point. But I think the White Sox would be the absolute last choice, even considering whatever just happened to Kevin Pillar. Players notice that. There was a handful of players who wouldn't take any amount of money to play for the White Sox after the '94 strike. Curt Schilling and Jim Edmonds are two that come to mind quickly. 

Very true and so did Mike Mussina.

In Schillings case he told the Arizona Republic it was because of something JR said to him in a meeting between owners and players during the 94-95 labor impasse. Schilling never revealed what was said, but he did say it was so personal he never would forgive JR nor play for the Sox.   

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Very true and so did Mike Mussina.

In Schillings case he told the Arizona Republic it was because of something JR said to him in a meeting between owners and players during the 94-95 labor impasse. Schilling never revealed what was said, but he did say it was so personal he never would forgive JR nor play for the Sox. 

Considering Curt Schilling, it was probably something like, "Well, in a Socialist system, everybody works, too."

I'm really curious about this Pillar thing where various people around the league filled him in on pressures that Getz is under, but can't talk about. A mandate to shave any money off of any contract possible seems too simple. Or there's a deeper reason, like the team will be sold, or they have to look poor while negotiating for a stadium, or "the owners are all colluding again". Maybe the new contracts guy from KC went over everything, saw a loophole in Pillar's contract and was like, no way.