ST Thread

[shoeless_joe21]

"Play motivated to win."

LOL. I knew the bar for this season was low, but I didn't realize it was "just avoid another Black Sox scandal" low.

[pcq]

19 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea why not. Sheets is a DH that can't hit. He's old enough now to where you can't even squint and see him improving enough to ever play a competent corner OF.

Sheets' continued tenure in RF suggest Sox management was barely trying. They tried Colas who I like but is not ready. What else?

[oldsox]

21 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Here's one guy I find interesting and am rooting for him. Burrowes, not Cohen, tho Cohen is interesting, too. And as always, I wish him well. 
 

 

Burrowes is such a better SS prospect than Gonzalez.  I just don't understand the draft pick.

[Dick Allen]

11 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

This is going to be one of the most supremely brutal offenses I've ever seen in my life. But, since I already knew the window was closed during ST of 2023, I'm kind of over it -- and I'm legitimately curious just to see what a defense-only team looks like. How much will the pitching staff actually benefit? Will the dread I feel every time I watch them fail to convert a single baserunner be offset by the confidence I'll learn to feel about how they'll get out of jams?

They're going to lose a lot of games, but they'll be clean ones. It's a sort of interesting experiment. At least on paper. In my head. Kind of.

They will be boring, but will win more games than last year. Not a lot, probably still over 90.

[ChiSox59]

19 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Meanwhile, Smith-Njigba is a 24 year old lefty corner outfielder with good minor league numbers.  Worth a shot.  Sheets had his chances and has proven himself to be a DH that can’t hit.

Sheets has 2 options and Sox have very little 1B depth after AV. I doubt he’s even in the 4 or 5 closest to DFA. Peralta, Banks, Drohan and even out of options guys like Garcia and Lambert would go first I would imagine. Gonna need some space for some of these older vets that will probably break camp too. 

That said, I’d bring in Smith Njigba for sure. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sheets has 2 options and Sox have very little 1B depth after AV. I doubt he’s even in the 4 or 5 closest to DFA. Peralta, Banks, Drohan and even out of options guys like Garcia and Lambert would go first I would imagine. Gonna need some space for some of these older vets that will probably break camp too. 

That said, I’d bring in Smith Njigba for sure. 

Sheets has 1 option remaining, not 2. So if he survives this ST, this is essentially his last year they have control over him.

[Y2Jimmy0]

18 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Burrowes is such a better SS prospect than Gonzalez.  I just don't understand the draft pick.

This is crazy. We need to see Gonzalez play this year before making any sort of declaration like this. 

19 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I would claim Smith-Njigba and DFA Sheets in a New York yesterday. 

Smith-Njigba isn’t really a great fit as a LHH OF. Sox have a 40-man crunch already. 

17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Sheets has 2 options and Sox have very little 1B depth after AV. I doubt he’s even in the 4 or 5 closest to DFA. Peralta, Banks, Drohan and even out of options guys like Garcia and Lambert would go first I would imagine. Gonna need some space for some of these older vets that will probably break camp too. 

That said, I’d bring in Smith Njigba for sure. 

Again, Sox have a real 40-man crunch. 

[ChiSox59]

27 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Sheets has 1 option remaining, not 2. So if he survives this ST, this is essentially his last year they have control over him.

Thanks for correcting. Thought it was 2 for some reason, but even with 1 point remains. Doubt he’s in the chopping block just yet. 

[chitownsportsfan]

Looking at the 40 man roster, to the extent they have a 40 man crunch, it's only because they haven't cut a bunch of dead wood. If they have a bunch of guys that will need protecting in the offseason, than worry about that in the offseason.

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/roster/40-man

You're telling me Sheets, and at least a couple pitchers, couldn't be cast off for a better, younger player should one come available like Njigba? 

We're gonna lose 90+ games, why in the world wouldn't we be bringing in guys like Njigba if available?

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yes, and perhaps it will suddenly seem obvious why no other teams are doing this.

The thing is, I do still believe it all to be a ruse. Getz knows he needs a full rebuild, but his assets weren’t in a position to be moved, so he has to stall. And I actually think that, if you’re in a lost year anyway, it might just be a pretty good excuse to jettison as much as possible from a deeply troubled culture and put in some fresh faces to help those aforementioned assets rebound and the prospects develop.

What I’m afraid of is that it may turn out that he’s underestimated the counter-acting negative effect of consistent losing. The feeling that you have no way of influencing a change in that can do dark things to the psyche. 

I do think it’s clear that Getz thinks he can import a culture. You can see that in detail from his player choices.

my problem with this continues to be that I don’t believe it works. Keuchel was supposed to be a leader and a winner, you can still find Kenny’s quotes praising him for his leadership. Lynn was supposed to be a veteran leader. They all ripped the org while leaving, because the org itself was toxic. 

How are all these 38 year old former Royals going to react when they’re stuck losing every game 3-0, their manager is too busy bragging about how important he is to manage anything, and their staff is so small that they can’t get feedback when they’re not having the success they had in their 20s?

[Timmy U]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I do think it’s clear that Getz thinks he can import a culture. You can see that in detail from his player choices.

my problem with this continues to be that I don’t believe it works. Keuchel was supposed to be a leader and a winner, you can still find Kenny’s quotes praising him for his leadership. Lynn was supposed to be a veteran leader. They all ripped the org while leaving, because the org itself was toxic. 

How are all these 38 year old former Royals going to react when they’re stuck losing every game 3-0, their manager is too busy bragging about how important he is to manage anything, and their staff is so small that they can’t get feedback when they’re not having the success they had in their 20s?

I think the cultural reset starts with Montgomery and, assuming he gets better hitting rhp, Ramos, and Quero.  But it's important to scrape away the wreckage.  It seems like Robert is the only one from the previous rebuild who's going to be here in 2025, so all these veterans are a transition phase.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Timmy U said:

I think the cultural reset starts with Montgomery and, assuming he gets better hitting rhp, Ramos, and Quero.  But it's important to scrape away the wreckage.  It seems like Robert is the only one from the previous rebuild who's going to be here in 2025, so all these veterans are a transition phase.

The other thing on my mind about having 70 guys in camp: when will these guys ever see a coach? Or an at bat?

We saw last year how the Cubs had a professional development and scouting staff of like 90 and the White Sox had a staff of like 20. There’s been some turnover this year but no one has caught whiff of a massive staff expansion.

Furthermore, there’s only so many at bats in these games from either side.

If a rookie needs coaching, do they get the focus of that coach away from the 23 other infielders in camp? If they need at bats to work on something, when do they get them? If a veteran pitcher needs support to keep his mechanics under control, wheee is he gonna get that with a camp this big?

[Y2Jimmy0]

56 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Looking at the 40 man roster, to the extent they have a 40 man crunch, it's only because they haven't cut a bunch of dead wood. If they have a bunch of guys that will need protecting in the offseason, than worry about that in the offseason.

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/roster/40-man

You're telling me Sheets, and at least a couple pitchers, couldn't be cast off for a better, younger player should one come available like Njigba? 

We're gonna lose 90+ games, why in the world wouldn't we be bringing in guys like Njigba if available?

Do you think Njigba is better than Fletcher? If he’s not, when would he actually play? Is he better than Zach DeLoach? They have an infield crunch for sure. I don’t think Shewmake is good but I doubt the Sox want to lose Sosa or Rodriguez for nothing at this point. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The other thing on my mind about having 70 guys in camp: when will these guys ever see a coach? Or an at bat?

We saw last year how the Cubs had a professional development and scouting staff of like 90 and the White Sox had a staff of like 20. There’s been some turnover this year but no one has caught whiff of a massive staff expansion.

Furthermore, there’s only so many at bats in these games from either side.

If a rookie needs coaching, do they get the focus of that coach away from the 23 other infielders in camp? If they need at bats to work on something, when do they get them? If a veteran pitcher needs support to keep his mechanics under control, wheee is he gonna get that with a camp this big?

The prospects won’t be in big league camp very long 

[South Side Hit Men]

Am I missing something here? Because I look at the 40 man roster, I'd say 20 max players might matter in 2026 (likely 5-10), and 20 could stay or go and it doesn't matter to any solid future White Sox team.

Valuable (2): Robert Jr. & Cease

Guys who will or might possibly matter in 2026 (18):

• Born 1996 M. Kopech
• Born 1997 Fletcher, Shewmake
• Born 1998 O. Colas, J. Cousin, Z. DeLoach, J. Eder, K. Lee, J. Shuster,, A. Speas, A. Vaughn
• Born 1999 G. Crochet, S. Drohan, D. Garcia
• Born 2000 P. Berroa, L. Sosa
• Born 2021 J. Rodriguez
• Born 2022 B. Ramos

 

[Balta1701]

24 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

The prospects won’t be in big league camp very long 

Which would be a shame since a lot of guys (Eder, Nastrini, Montgomery, Lee) are in a spot where you would want them to get lots of looks early against big leaguers so that they could be ready to come up late in the season.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Do you think Njigba is better than Fletcher? If he’s not, when would he actually play? Is he better than Zach DeLoach? They have an infield crunch for sure. I don’t think Shewmake is good but I doubt the Sox want to lose Sosa or Rodriguez for nothing at this point. 

I wouldn't over complicate it for now. Just cut sheets, claim Njigba. There is a decent chance that nobody claims Sheets. A lefty DH, that can't hit RHP and has regressed to below replacement level that is entering his age 27 season isn't even AAAA fodder imo, he's now down into career AAA org guy territory.  Notably, there's nothing in his underlying stats that points to bad luck, he was just incredibly awful. His xWOBA was .265 FFS. 14% of his ball in play were popups. He stinks.

Lord knows this club isn't going to stay healthy, so there will be playing time available at some point for Njigba. I'd rather give him every single inning in the OF over Shields when they come available.

[WestEddy]

24 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I wouldn't over complicate it for now. Just cut sheets, claim Njigba.

They could claim Smith-Njigba, then just bump Foster to the 60-day. I'd guess that the last week of spring training is a great time to DFA all the guys you want to sneak through, as everybody's under the same roster crunch. 

i don't think it's a matter of S-N being "better" than Fletcher or DeLoach, but one of the three can pop faster or bigger than the others. Then there's your RF or 4th OF. I'd rather be running a guy like S-N out there as a 4th outfielder than the end of career dreck we've been doing for the last 10 years. (tekotte, Shuck)

[chitownsportsfan]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

They could claim Smith-Njigba, then just bump Foster to the 60-day. I'd guess that the last week of spring training is a great time to DFA all the guys you want to sneak through, as everybody's under the same roster crunch. 

i don't think it's a matter of S-N being "better" than Fletcher or DeLoach, but one of the three can pop faster or bigger than the others. Then there's your RF or 4th OF. I'd rather be running a guy like S-N out there as a 4th outfielder than the end of career dreck we've been doing for the last 10 years. (tekotte, Shuck)

a little creativity would go a long way. There's absolutely zero pressure to compete for anything this year and that should (in theory) free up the 40 man to be used as more of a shuttle bus than in a competing year where you might need those 2-3 guys on it and in AAA to come up in midseason and hold down the fort.

We have no fort to hold down, if we have to call up half a dozen career minor leaguers by midseason, just cycle through all of them, purchase the contract, put 'em on the 40 man, and then DFA as needed.

I understand there is a human element and guys might get offended being "jerked around" but FFS, this is pro ball and we've again, we've got no culture to speak of any good, we might as well have a culture of treating this thing like a 3 year plan and get a look at as many guys as possible until we need to settle on a roster built to weather the storm over 162 in a contention window.

Edited February 18 by chitownsportsfan

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Which would be a shame since a lot of guys (Eder, Nastrini, Montgomery, Lee) are in a spot where you would want them to get lots of looks early against big leaguers so that they could be ready to come up late in the season.

You think this matters much more than I do. I think spring training is mostly meaningless as a predictor of any future success. I don't really see the difference in getting playing time in big league camp over minor league camp. 

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I wouldn't over complicate it for now. Just cut sheets, claim Njigba. There is a decent chance that nobody claims Sheets. A lefty DH, that can't hit RHP and has regressed to below replacement level that is entering his age 27 season isn't even AAAA fodder imo, he's now down into career AAA org guy territory.  Notably, there's nothing in his underlying stats that points to bad luck, he was just incredibly awful. His xWOBA was .265 FFS. 14% of his ball in play were popups. He stinks.

Lord knows this club isn't going to stay healthy, so there will be playing time available at some point for Njigba. I'd rather give him every single inning in the OF over Shields when they come available.

I'd DFA Sheets because I don't think he's any good but i'd be really surprised if he plays the outfield under this GM. 

[chitownsportsfan]

From your lips to my ears Jimmy. I've disagreed with you on many things over the years but there's no doubt you're closer to the org than most -- and if you are hearing that and sensing it, LFG. It's about time we stopped building our 25 man roster around 2-3 guys every year that should be strictly DHs and then trotting them out into the field.

DH should be the last spot you worry about, not the springboard for how everything else has to be laid out.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

From your lips to my ears Jimmy. I've disagreed with you on many things over the years but there's no doubt you're closer to the org than most -- and if you are hearing that and sensing it, LFG. It's about time we stopped building our 25 man roster around 2-3 guys every year that should be strictly DHs and then trotting them out into the field.

DH should be the last spot you worry about, not the springboard for how everything else has to be laid out.

Why would you think otherwise right now though? Fletcher will be in RF against RHP and Pillar will be on the team. Why would Sheets play over those guys? Also, would you ever play him over Eloy Jimenez or Andrew Vaughn against RHP? I just don't see a spot for him. 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Why would you think otherwise right now though? Fletcher will be in RF against RHP and Pillar will be on the team. Why would Sheets play over those guys? Also, would you ever play him over Eloy Jimenez or Andrew Vaughn against RHP? I just don't see a spot for him. 

Simply seeing the obvious hasn't been a strong suit of the Sox' lately.

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Simply seeing the obvious hasn't been a strong suit of the Sox' lately.

It's a different regime 

[baseball_gal_aly]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It's a different regime 

I don't blame anyone for thinking that nothing has changed until proven otherwise.