Getz is operating differently and that's at least interesting

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Just a few thoughts on Maggs/ intriguing post.

No Getz didn't use serious to push the misery down the road, but he did do a patch job:  the entire Bummer trade return are patches (aren't they?); then DeJong, the catchers, Nicky Lopez.  I have no complaints:  complete scorched-earth isn't the answer either.  
 These bounce-backers are more interesting than the Hahn versions.  Hopefully that means more successful as well.  Now Hahn's absolute worst moves were trading for veterans at their peak value.  Getz hasn't made any of those moves; and doing so now would be wasting resources.  
As for prospect lists, the only trades that Hahn got heralded prospects in return were the trades of Eaton, Quentin, Sale, Peavy, Robertson/Frazier/Kahnle and perhaps a couple last summer.  Getz, to date, hasn't traded anyone at the  level of those players; nor has he received any heralded prospects.   And, really, can we really fault Hahn for the returns in those trades?  They weren't all A+s, and only real failure (R/F/K).  And none of the heralded prosects that we got were complete wipeouts.  

Getz' recent trades are more along the lines of Reed for Davidson and Santiago for Eaton.  Hahn went 1/2 in those deals, but the winner was a big winner.  

I like Law; long my favorite prospect ranker.  Getz was his White Sox source when Hahn was GM, fwiw.   Anyway, last summer's trades were consummated by Hahn.  The drafts were Hahn.  But Law's comments on improved player development is nice to hear going forward. 

Bottom line is that Hahn was clueless as to how to build a team.  Hopefully, Getz can build a team.

This is a pretty bold statement without some back up.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, GreenSox said:

I just got the feeling that the Burger trade (KW doing it sort of behind Hahn's back) just was "the last straw" for Reinsdorf and cemented in his mind that the front office dysfunction was irredeemable. 

Burger was such a strange player to trade (good attitude, lots of control).  I doubt the trade ever really haunts us (in the Semien/Tatis sense) but if it does, at least the culprit is gone.   And we got a young pitcher in return, so good things could still happen.

Edit:  I just read Law's report on the Sox' top 20, and he said that the Eder (#6) trade was a "buy low" opportunity.

I said this a lot at the time - trading away a player like Jake Burger makes a ton of sense for the White Sox.

1. He's position limited at positions where the White Sox have several players, including some minor league talent (3b, 1b/DH). 
2. He's defensively a liability. The White Sox defensively aren't good enough to just cover for him.
3. The fact that he's pre-arbitration means that teams who don't trade for guys close to free agency will be in on him. This happened - the market for 3bs making $15 million in their last arbitration year is almost nothing. The market for weak defensive 3b who are pre-arbitration exists.
4. He's already going to turn 28 in April. Although he doesn't have a ton of experience, this is not some 23 year old prospect we're talking about whose body might fill out or whose abilities might increase.
5. His injury history makes holding him a risk for a team in position of the White Sox. At least with Cease, he's been healthy and reliable for 3+ years, you can say it would be surprising and out of character if he got hurt even though he's a pitcher, that isn't the case with Burger.
6. The 2023-2025 White Sox don't look good. At all. Jake Burger will probably give his biggest contributions in the next few years. These do not match up.

None of this means that Hahn identified a quality return, it's not like I have a ton of confidence in him, but if "Trading Burger away was such a mistake that I'm firing you" was how it went down, that is not a good sign. Trading Burger away was aggressive on rebuilding, but also sensible in the context of the White Sox. 

[Dick Allen]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I said this a lot at the time - trading away a player like Jake Burger makes a ton of sense for the White Sox.

1. He's position limited at positions where the White Sox have several players, including some minor league talent (3b, 1b/DH). 
2. He's defensively a liability. The White Sox defensively aren't good enough to just cover for him.
3. The fact that he's pre-arbitration means that teams who don't trade for guys close to free agency will be in on him. This happened - the market for 3bs making $15 million in their last arbitration year is almost nothing. The market for weak defensive 3b who are pre-arbitration exists.
4. He's already going to turn 28 in April. Although he doesn't have a ton of experience, this is not some 23 year old prospect we're talking about whose body might fill out or whose abilities might increase.
5. His injury history makes holding him a risk for a team in position of the White Sox. At least with Cease, he's been healthy and reliable for 3+ years, you can say it would be surprising and out of character if he got hurt even though he's a pitcher, that isn't the case with Burger.
6. The 2023-2025 White Sox don't look good. At all. Jake Burger will probably give his biggest contributions in the next few years. These do not match up.

None of this means that Hahn identified a quality return, it's not like I have a ton of confidence in him, but if "Trading Burger away was such a mistake that I'm firing you" was how it went down, that is not a good sign. Trading Burger away was aggressive on rebuilding, but also sensible in the context of the White Sox. 

You get a pitcher who has some control issues, is only 2.5 years younger, and in AA. I get Burger will be 28 in April, but he's in his prime years, and they are going to be cheap. That should be right up the White sox alley. 

[GreenSox]

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

but if "Trading Burger away was such a mistake that I'm firing you" was how it went down, that is not a good sign. Trading Burger away was aggressive on rebuilding, but also sensible in the context of the White Sox. 

 I said that I surmised that JR dismissed both because the FO wasn't working together, as per one traded Burger without the other's knowledge, consent or agreement.  It had nothing to do with the merits of the trade (as I surmise it).

I don't disagree with  your points re Burger.  But in the context of so many expiring deals to dump, and a manager  yelping about "culture" seemingly incessantly, I just thought it was strange and still do.

Edited February 13 by GreenSox

[LittleHurtCG]

12 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

 I said that I surmised that JR dismissed both because the FO wasn't working together, as per one traded Burger without the other's knowledge, consent or agreement.  It had nothing to do with the merits of the trade (as I surmise it).

I don't disagree with  your points re Burger.  But in the context of so many expiring deals to dump, and a manager  yelping about "culture" seemingly incessantly, I just thought it was strange and still do.

It was a strange and shortsighted thing to do. I guess they thought they were selling high on Burger? Overall, a dumb trade made by a totally incompetent front office. 

[southsider2k5]

I have no problem with the idea of trading away Burger for all of those reasons previously mentioned.  Plus he is a really big and physically limited guy who has had a series of almost career ending injuries. While projecting him to hit is a viable idea, him being a 150 game a season guy to maximize that bat isn't.  He's a Chicago softball player waiting to happen.

The return and the controversy behind how the trade actually happen seem way more germane to the firings than the actual trading of Jake Burger.