Crochet on starting...

[Lip Man 1]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13/garrett-crochet-ecstatic-about-chance-to-be-white-sox-starter

[ptatc]

Good luck. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Good luck. 

Better chance of success here than the ridiculous and insane miracle that was key to their bullpen plans last year.

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Good luck. 

With the way things are now with SP innings, he could make 20 starts before they shut him down in August and pitch 80 innings. I'm fine with the plan as long as Crochet is. We have very little to lose as a team and if the player has given his blessing, go for it.

Edited February 14 by chitownsportsfan

[ptatc]

43 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Better chance of success here than the ridiculous and insane miracle that was key to their bullpen plans last year.

If you read the article, that's a possible plan again. It doesn't matter how he gets his innings. He is going to be limited to reliever number of innings. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

If you read the article, that's a possible plan again. It doesn't matter how he gets his innings. He is going to be limited to reliever number of innings. 

But we are 22 months from TJS instead of a ludicrous 13, and we aren’t expecting him to come back from surgery and immediately save the bullpen as a high leverage arm.

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

With the way things are now with SP innings, he could make 20 starts before they shut him down in August and pitch 80 innings. I'm fine with the plan as long as Crochet is. We have very little to lose as a team and if the player has given his blessing, go for it.

That would work. That about the right amount of innings. That a long layoff until next season though. 

This all predicated on him staying healthy which he hasn't shown he can do. 

[ptatc]

41 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But we are 22 months from TJS instead of a ludicrous 13, and we aren’t expecting him to come back from surgery and immediately save the bullpen as a high leverage arm.

OK. Doesn't change the fact that he will only have about 80 innings. Whether it's bullpen, starting, majors or minors, he is only going to have a reliever like load. 

[zisk]

;may or may not work out. at least he has ability. 2025-26 are way more important then this season

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, ptatc said:

If you read the article, that's a possible plan again. It doesn't matter how he gets his innings. He is going to be limited to reliever number of innings. 

Wouldn't it be better for his arm health if he just stayed in the minors and prepped to a starter, stayed on a SP training regiment  ?

I don't understand being a relief pitcher with the Sox . Wouldn't that mess with your BP if you can only use him every 5th day or screw with his
SP training routine  ? I would imagine a SP plan with his history of arm problems would be tailored differently then an MLB relief arm.

Maybe Getz isn't planning on him being there on the opening day or using him as a 2 or 3 inning opener. It just seems to make more sense putting him in the minors to do that. Why waste even more of his service time when you can get some of it back ?

[Dick Allen]

They can trick him and all the people who say he should be a starter, and just let him be an opener. Pitch an inning or two and be done with it. Maybe he works himself up to 3 before he goes back on the IL with a sore shoulder, then we can do the exercise again next year.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Wouldn't it be better for his arm health if he just stayed in the minors and prepped to a starter, stayed on a SP training regiment  ?

I don't understand being a relief pitcher with the Sox . Wouldn't that mess with your BP if you can only use him every 5th day or screw with his
SP training routine  ? I would imagine a SP plan with his history of arm problems would be tailored differently then an MLB relief arm.

Maybe Getz isn't planning on him being there on the opening day or using him as a 2 or 3 inning opener. It just seems to make more sense putting him in the minors to do that. Why waste even more of his service time when you can get some of it back ?

Not really. With as few innings as he can do this year, it doesn't really matter. Whether he starts and goes 3 innings each start for part of the season or is a long reliever for the whole season, he just needs to stay healthy hy and build the innings to get a startersoad next year. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, ptatc said:

Not really. With as few innings as he can do this year, it doesn't really matter. Whether he starts and goes 3 innings each start for part of the season or is a long reliever for the whole season, he just needs to stay healthy hy and build the innings to get a startersoad next year. 

I don't know . Its not the innings so much as the regiment he'll have to follow for different roles . The up and down of getting warmed up, the temptation to use him perhaps 2 or 3 times a week even if just for an inning. Him not attempting to go more than an inning in every appearance doesn't seem right. I'd rather have him making starts every 5th day throwing pitches between starts as necessary for a guy with his previous arm problems .

Just seems like less pressure to get minor leaguers out where you can experiment in games with pitches you're working on developing rather than using your 2 really good pitches to get MLB hitters out.

[ptatc]

8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't know . Its not the innings so much as the regiment he'll have to follow for different roles . The up and down of getting warmed up, the temptation to use him perhaps 2 or 3 times a week even if just for an inning. Him not attempting to go more than an inning in every appearance doesn't seem right. I'd rather have him making starts every 5th day throwing pitches between starts as necessary for a guy with his previous arm problems .

Just seems like less pressure to get minor leaguers out where you can experiment in games with pitches you're working on developing rather than using your 2 really good pitches to get MLB hitters out.

This is true once he can actually have an appropriate workload. If he does it every fifth day then his season ends really early if he go more than 3 innings. Even in the majors they keep a schedule of when pitches are available to pitch. It would be easy to have him on a schedule to pitch on a regular schedule and have a set routine. 

Gone are the days of starters going even 7 innings so they know relief pitchers are need nearly everyday. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, ptatc said:

This is true once he can actually have an appropriate workload. If he does it every fifth day then his season ends really early if he go more than 3 innings. Even in the majors they keep a schedule of when pitches are available to pitch. It would be easy to have him on a schedule to pitch on a regular schedule and have a set routine. 

Gone are the days of starters going even 7 innings so they know relief pitchers are need nearly everyday. 

It might not end really early if u start him in the minors going 1 inning for the 1st month,  2 for 2nd month, 3 for the 3rd month, 4 for the 4 month and 5 for the 5th month or number of pitches.

Once he starts getting to 3,4, or 5 inning you can pull him early based on number of pitches or if he's getting hit hard. He should be prepped for  a very slow ramp up regarding pitches or innings per game or per usual some combination of them.

[ptatc]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It might not end really early if u start him in the minors going 1 inning for the 1st month,  2 for 2nd month, 3 for the 3rd month, 4 for the 4 month and 5 for the 5th month or number of pitches.

Once he starts getting to 3,4, or 5 inning you can pull him early based on number of pitches or if he's getting hit hard. He should be prepped for  a very slow ramp up regarding pitches or innings per game or per usual some combination of them.

This would work but I don't think there is really a difference between this and him doing those innings in relief. Next year after he can pitch more they can get him into the starting routine. 

Either way works. But it's all based on him staying healthy which he hasn't shown he can do even with a light load. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

This would work but I don't think there is really a difference between this and him doing those innings in relief. Next year after he can pitch more they can get him into the starting routine. 

Either way works. But it's all based on him staying healthy which he hasn't shown he can do even with a light load. 

Right the health part is why I prefer he be on a regular clock work type schedule where he builds up arm strength slowly giving him time to get used to each step. It may not prevent injury but at least if he stays in the minors he can work on things that need working on like command and a 3rd pitch and fielding. He's a bad defender. Not sure he'll get too much better but it sure helps that you don't regularly throw bunts or swinging bunts away, can handle pick off moves and make accurate throws to start a DP. He just need so much work to get to where he needs to go.

Colas can't do the little things right and they want him to work on those things in the minors, so why should Crochet not be held to the same standard ? 

Edited February 16 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Right the health part is why I prefer he be on a regular clock work type schedule where he builds up arm strength slowly giving him time to get used to each step. It may not prevent injury but at least if he stays in the minors he can work on things that need working on like command and a 3rd pitch and fielding. He's a bad defender. Not sure he'll get too much better but it sure helps that you don't regularly throw bunts or swinging bunts away, can handle pick off moves and make accurate throws to start a DP. He just need so much work to get to where he needs to go.

Colas can't do the little things right and they want him to work on those things in the minors, so why should Crochet not be held to the same standard ? 

Like I said it's a valid point. But the key is to get up to the innings. He can get the regular work whether it's starting or as a reliever. In the minors it would be easier to do but he has shown he can get MLB hitters out so he may learn more about being a pitcher and not a thrower against the better competition. 

There are positive and negative about each situation. The innings are the most important in any scenario. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Like I said it's a valid point. But the key is to get up to the innings. He can get the regular work whether it's starting or as a reliever. In the minors it would be easier to do but he has shown he can get MLB hitters out so he may learn more about being a pitcher and not a thrower against the better competition. 

There are positive and negative about each situation. The innings are the most important in any scenario. 

He hasn’t shown he can get big leaguers out since 2021, he darn well couldn’t get them out last year after Hahn raced him back to save his bullpen, and he hasn’t shown that he can get outs if guys have time to see him on the mound a second time through. At the very least, start him in Charlotte so you can see that he can get AAA hitters out.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He hasn’t shown he can get big leaguers out since 2021, he darn well couldn’t get them out last year after Hahn raced him back to save his bullpen, and he hasn’t shown that he can get outs if guys have time to see him on the mound a second time through. At the very least, start him in Charlotte so you can see that he can get AAA hitters out.

I think his issues last year were the small sample size. He has gotten them out in the past. I know you like the recency bias but he has shown it. If you think that he can't do it any longer than the whole process will end quickly. That will be discovered in the MLB and since they aren't going to compete, this year is already lost anyway. 

Like I said either way works and they both have advantages and disadvantages. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 hours ago, ptatc said:

Like I said it's a valid point. But the key is to get up to the innings. He can get the regular work whether it's starting or as a reliever. In the minors it would be easier to do but he has shown he can get MLB hitters out so he may learn more about being a pitcher and not a thrower against the better competition. 

There are positive and negative about each situation. The innings are the most important in any scenario. 

You should probably watch this. The way Crochet is talking he  prefers to be on a 5 day starting schedule just the way I described it. Not the progressive month by month sequence I described because that very very specific. But he said  5 day schedule where 1st and 2nd day are throwing days and the 3rd and 4th days are rest days before the 5th day start. Doesn't sound at all like a BP type of situation on an MLB team.

 

[ptatc]

11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You should probably watch this. The way Crochet is talking he  prefers to be on a 5 day starting schedule just the way I described it. Not the progressive month by month sequence I described because that very very specific. But he said  5 day schedule where 1st and 2nd day are throwing days and the 3rd and 4th days are rest days before the 5th day start. Doesn't sound at all like a BP type of situation on an MLB team.

 

That's fine if he wants to do that. Like I said it a fine option. There are just multiple ways it can be done. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

35 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That's fine if he wants to do that. Like I said it a fine option. There are just multiple ways it can be done. 

Yes I knew there were multiple ways but it never sounded like a  BP stint was a viable way to keep him prepped as a starter. It's not just about getting the innings in . It's about how it would ve been too difficult to prep him as a starting pitcher which would disrupt the Sox ability to use him the way they do other relievers on the team. If he is going for being a starter you don't use him as a relief pitcher on the big club which  you seemed to think was just as good just to build up innings. That was our fundamental disagreement. Crochet's interview shows that's how he wants to approach it also now.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[ptatc]

38 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes I knew there were multiple ways but it never sounded like a  BP stint was a viable way to keep him prepped as a starter. It's not just about getting the innings in . It's about how it would ve been too difficult to prep him as a starting pitcher which would disrupt the Sox ability to use him the way they do other relievers on the team. If he is going for being a starter you don't use him as a relief pitcher on the big club which  you seemed to think was just as good just to build up innings. That was our fundamental disagreement. Crochet's interview shows that's how he wants to approach it also now.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

This year it is all about the innings. Next year when he can actually be a viable starter with the inni gs that's when it's important to get in the starter routine. It's fine to do it this year but it's not mandatory. If he and the organization want to, fine. But it would be fine to do the bullpen this year and the starter routine next year. It's not like he has a routine as he's really never done it.