Hendriks signs with Red Sox

[Lip Man 1]

From the MLB.com web site:

Feb. 14: Hendriks has multiple offers, could sign Thursday (report)

According to ESPN's Jeff Passan, free-agent reliever Liam Hendriks has received multiple contract offers and will decide whether or not to sign with a team by Thursday.

Hendriks is currently rehabbing after undergoing Tommy John surgery on Aug. 2. If Hendriks doesn't sign by his self-imposed deadline, Passan reports that the right-hander will continue his rehab and then throw for teams in late July with the hope of joining a club for the stretch run.

Hendriks, 35, was one of baseball's best late-inning relievers from 2019-22, split between the A's and White Sox. He recorded a 2.26 ERA and 114 saves over that stretch. He saved 38 games for Chicago in 2021 and 37 more the following season. In December 2022, Hendriks was diagnosed with Stage 4 non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. But the right-hander was determined to get back on the mound and on May 29, five months after his diagnosis, Hendriks made his emotional return.

He threw only five innings before being shut down by his elbow injury, but Hendriks still earned American League Comeback Player of the Year honors.

After the season, the White Sox declined Hendriks' club option for 2024, making him a free agent. He told MLB.com in December that he is looking to make his season debut with a team before the Trade Deadline on July 30.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

That return date feels optimistic. Don’t rush it.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

That return date feels optimistic. Don’t rush it.

Smart teams won’t.

For Brooks Boyer, Liam was the lone player / story besides Robert fans could get excited for in 2023. They were tweeting Liam all season meeting with cancer patients.

It was both medical and baseball malpractice to promote him to the roster after where he was at in the rehab process. They did this a lot under Hahn. It needs to change under Getz.

[Balta1701]

12 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Smart teams won’t.

For Brooks Boyer, Liam was the lone player / story besides Robert fans could get excited for in 2023. They were tweeting Liam all season meeting with cancer patients.

It was both medical and baseball malpractice to promote him to the roster after where he was at in the rehab process. They did this a lot under Hahn. It needs to change under Getz.

I think, given where Hendriks is in his career, wherever he signs there's a good chance a team will push him to be ready in September. That's still pretty aggressive, but it gives him a shot at throwing 5-10 meaningful innings before the end of the year, and although there's still a risk of additional injury, that's more manageable - particularly with extra off days in the playoffs followed immediately by a long break. This is similar to what the Rays did with Glasnow, he got 2 short playoff outings before their season ended. He still started on the IL the next season, but he performed well enough that he became tradable.

[South Side Hit Men]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

I think, given where Hendriks is in his career, wherever he signs there's a good chance a team will push him to be ready in September. That's still pretty aggressive, but it gives him a shot at throwing 5-10 meaningful innings before the end of the year, and although there's still a risk of additional injury, that's more manageable - particularly with extra off days in the playoffs followed immediately by a long break. This is similar to what the Rays did with Glasnow, he got 2 short playoff outings before their season ended. He still started on the IL the next season, but he performed well enough that he became tradable.

I agree on that front, but also feel if he is throwing with a significant drop in velocity during his rehabilitation assignment, and only has five competitive rehabilitation innings with a 10.80 ERA), a responsible team is not activating Liam until he is ready.

Whereas the Sox (looking at Boyer and Hahn) seemed more interested in promoting his return from a marketing perspective than properly managing the rehabilitation process.

[Balta1701]

Just now, South Side Hit Men said:

I agree on that front, but also feel if he is throwing with a significant drop in velocity during his rehabilitation assignment, and only has five competitive rehabilitation innings with a 10.80 ERA), a responsible team is not activating Liam until he is ready.

Whereas the Sox (looking at Boyer and Hahn) seemed more interested in promoting his return from a marketing perspective than properly managing the rehabilitation process.

Oh yeah the White Sox were drunk off their asses last year with that decision and the Crochet one.

[caulfield12]

Anderson was never right after getting taken out by yet another ex Royal attempting to play 3B…

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

21 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I agree on that front, but also feel if he is throwing with a significant drop in velocity during his rehabilitation assignment, and only has five competitive rehabilitation innings with a 10.80 ERA), a responsible team is not activating Liam until he is ready.

Whereas the Sox (looking at Boyer and Hahn) seemed more interested in promoting his return from a marketing perspective than properly managing the rehabilitation process.

Your theory doesn't hold water if Hendriks was the one who wanted to pitch last season. Too much conjecture in your theory unless you have some kind of link to say Hendriks didnt want to pitch and Hahn and Boyer forced it on him. I think a grown man wouldnt have a problem saying no if asked to pitch knowing that he was likely to be a Free Agent.

[2Deep]

21 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Anderson was never right after getting taken out by yet another ex Royal attempting to play 3B…

Many people don't understand that Tim was pretty injured last year and tried to play  through it.

He did his damage to himself but he cared about playing.

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Your theory doesn't hold water if Hendriks was the one who wanted to pitch last season. Too much conjecture in your theory unless you have some kind of link to say Hendriks didnt want to pitch and Hahn and Boyer forced it on him. I think a grown man wouldnt have a problem saying no if asked to pitch knowing that he was likely to be a Free Agent.

Of course Hendriks wanted to pitch as soon as he could. He's as competitive of a person as we've had in years, that's just his personality. That doesn't mean he should have been allowed to. His body had just been through a major shock, there's no possible way he could have had a normal offseason training program even if he had tried to, he had already missed a month last year due to his elbow, he had a long-running elbow issue that had to be managed, and when he first came back his velocity was noticeably down already. 29 teams would have at least said "We're taking this slow, we're going to build your arm up gradually, and we want to see your velocity come back to your normal level before we start putting you against big leaguers". Rick Hahn said "I need you to save my competitive bullpen good luck kid."

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Of course Hendriks wanted to pitch as soon as he could. He's as competitive of a person as we've had in years, that's just his personality. That doesn't mean he should have been allowed to. His body had just been through a major shock, there's no possible way he could have had a normal offseason training program even if he had tried to, he had already missed a month last year due to his elbow, he had a long-running elbow issue that had to be managed, and when he first came back his velocity was noticeably down already. 29 teams would have at least said "We're taking this slow, we're going to build your arm up gradually, and we want to see your velocity come back to your normal level before we start putting you against big leaguers". Rick Hahn said "I need you to save my competitive bullpen good luck kid."

Hendriks is a grown man capable of making his own decisions. He was an inspiration to cancer patients all over the world. If he wanted to pitch it's his decision . He's got all kinds of Doctors to tell him not to do it . If he has medical clearance to pitch then I see no fault with Sox brass from going through with it if Hendriks and his doctors are fine with it also.

Edited February 16 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[South Side Hit Men]

12 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

Many people don't understand that Tim was pretty injured last year and tried to play  through it.

He did his damage to himself but he cared about playing.

 

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Of course Hendriks wanted to pitch as soon as he could. He's as competitive of a person as we've had in years, that's just his personality. That doesn't mean he should have been allowed to. His body had just been through a major shock, there's no possible way he could have had a normal offseason training program even if he had tried to, he had already missed a month last year due to his elbow, he had a long-running elbow issue that had to be managed, and when he first came back his velocity was noticeably down already. 29 teams would have at least said "We're taking this slow, we're going to build your arm up gradually, and we want to see your velocity come back to your normal level before we start putting you against big leaguers". Rick Hahn said "I need you to save my competitive bullpen good luck kid."

This. Most serious and nearly all professional athletes will play hurt, pump pain pills and do whatever they can to return to the field. Trained ethical medical staff and management need to prudently manage players.

How many times did players linger unplayable on the active roster? You can add Yoan, Grandal and Robert to the list of players who had major injuries, clearly should have been on the IL if not having surgery, and yet continued to play on during meaningless games and seasons the past two years.

Hendriks and all pitchers play through dead arm periods and pain at times, perhaps many times, during the 162 + season. However, it's just common sense to put the breaks on if your pitcher is well below his typical velocity, and isn't effective. Waiting a week or two to see him improve or perhaps shut down until he can begin to pitch effectively.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Hendriks is a grown man capable of making his own decisions. He was an inspiration to cancer patients all over the world. If he wanted to pitch it's his decision . He's got all kinds of Doctors to tell him not to do it . If he has medical clearance to pitch then I see no fault with Sox brass from going through with it if Hendriks and his doctors are fine with it also.

Fundamentally disagree, given his injury history. If he is super anxious to pitch, somewhere in there you have a professional meeting with him and his doctors and lay out the rehab plan, focusing on making sure his elbow is healthy. Set reasonable milestones like having his fastball back before he's called up. If he doesn't meet those milestones, he's not facing big league hitters no matter how much he wants to. 

What kind of an inspiration is it to make it all the way back then have your body fall apart again a week later?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Fundamentally disagree, given his injury history. If he is super anxious to pitch, somewhere in there you have a professional meeting with him and his doctors and lay out the rehab plan, focusing on making sure his elbow is healthy. Set reasonable milestones like having his fastball back before he's called up. If he doesn't meet those milestones, he's not facing big league hitters no matter how much he wants to. 

What kind of an inspiration is it to make it all the way back then have your body fall apart again a week later?

He is in charge of his own life. He's got a wife and Doctors who all have say in the matter before anything the Sox do. Fundamentally disagree all you want but no team is in the business of baseball to be magnanimous. Expecting the Sox to have the final say when everyone important to his decision says it's OK is expecting way too much.

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He is in charge of his own life. He's got a wife and Doctors who all have say in the matter before anything the Sox do. Fundamentally disagree all you want but no team is in the business of baseball to be magnanimous. Expecting the Sox to have the final say when everyone important to his decision says it's OK is expecting way too much.

No, they're in the business of winning baseball games, and "being smart about keeping your players healthy" is important in that. The fact that the White Sox have been bafflingly stupid about this in the past 2 years has been completely obvious and an illustration of why your version of this - "oh he says he can play therefore he's good" - doesn't work at all.

[ptatc]

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, they're in the business of winning baseball games, and "being smart about keeping your players healthy" is important in that. The fact that the White Sox have been bafflingly stupid about this in the past 2 years has been completely obvious and an illustration of why your version of this - "oh he says he can play therefore he's good" - doesn't work at all.

Unfortunately, this is not how working with actual people works. Everyone needs to take the player responses into the continuum of care. We can can't see or know how the players feels. While we do have research there is a lot of gray area. Using a single outcome such as velocity is an poor way to look at the progress of a patient. 

[South Side Hit Men]

36 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Unfortunately, this is not how working with actual people works. Everyone needs to take the player responses into the continuum of care. We can can't see or know how the players feels. While we do have research there is a lot of gray area. Using a single outcome such as velocity is an poor way to look at the progress of a patient. 

The Sox have had multiple reported incidents regarding injury management and lack of communication between players, coaches, the FO and medical staff the past three years.

Liam had 32 or 30 days depending on which media report is accurate between his final chemotopy treatment and his first rehab assignment, and 24 days between starting his rehab and appearing for the White Sox on May 29. The length of this entire timeline between Chemo and MLB pitching was not much longer than Spring Training for Pitchers. 

Publicly Reported Liam Hendricks 14 month Timeline (June 7, 2022 - August 2, 2023):

• June 2022 - December 2022
  • Liam discovered lumps in his neck in June. A clean blood test discouraged Liam and doctors from believing it was cancer. Liam stated in May 2023, blood tests aren't readily discovered through blood tests.
  • Some undisclosed time thereafter, Liam received a PET scan which revealed lymphomas were bigger in his hips.
  • Liam stated on December 7, the White Sox' team doctor expressed belief that his lymphomas could be cancerous.
  • Liam was officially diagnosed with Stage 4 non-Hodgkins lymphoma, which is the most dangerous stage of cancer.
• January 2023 - April 2023
  • Liam publicly announced his cancer diagnosis on January 8th.
  • Liam underwent the first of four treatments on back-to-back days, starting with the first treatments conducted January 9-10.
  • Liam concluded his fourth and final round of treatments on April 3 (MLB.com reported April 5).
  • Liam publicly announced his cancer free status on April 20.
  • Liam received a bone marrow test, and announced his treatment went well in those areas, and announced his remission.
• May - June 9, 2023
  • Liam discussed the above timeline during a May 3 Press Conference, and stated he and the White Sox have undisclosed timeline to return.
  • Liam completes the first 2023 game pitching appearance in Charlotte on May 5, topping out at 93.2 MPH over 1 clean inning with 1 K.
  • Liam completed his sixth and final Charlotte appearance on May 16, finishing his assignment with a 10.80 ERA over 5 innings.
  • Liam returned to Chicago thereafter and threw bullpen sessions before being activated on May 29, consistent with speculation in Spring Training he would return by June based on Hahn's insistence to keep Liam on the 15 Day, not 60 Day IL.
  • Liam pitched five one inning appearances between May 29 - June 9, before being shut down by the White Sox, with a 5.40 ERA.
• June 11 - August 2, 2023
  • On June 11, the White Sox placed Liam Hendriks on the 15 Day IL with Right Elbow Inflammation.
  • On June 13, Liam disclosed he received a cortisone shot, would receive a plasma injection over the next few days.  Liam stated there was no structural damage noted. Said he had pain since the start of his rehab assignment, which significantly became worse until he could not make a fist on the mound due to the severe pain, before finally being pulled by the White Sox.
  • On June 25, Grifol announced he did not believe Liam (or Clevinger) would return before the July 11 ASG.
  • During the ASB, Liam received the Jimmy V Award for Perseverance at the ESPYs. Link to his 7/12 speech.
  • On August 2, Liam underwent successful Tommy John Surgery.

[ptatc]

33 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox have had multiple reported incidents regarding injury management and lack of communication between players, coaches, the FO and medical staff the past three years.

Liam had 32 or 30 days depending on which media report is accurate between his final chemotopy treatment and his first rehab assignment, and 24 days between starting his rehab and appearing for the White Sox on May 29. The length of this entire timeline between Chemo and MLB pitching was not much longer than Spring Training for Pitchers. 

Publicly Reported Liam Hendricks 14 month Timeline (June 7, 2022 - August 2, 2023):

• June 2022 - December 2022
  • Liam discovered lumps in his neck in June. A clean blood test discouraged Liam and doctors from believing it was cancer. Liam stated in May 2023, blood tests aren't readily discovered through blood tests.
  • Some undisclosed time thereafter, Liam received a PET scan which revealed lymphomas were bigger in his hips.
  • Liam stated on December 7, the White Sox' team doctor expressed belief that his lymphomas could be cancerous.
  • Liam was officially diagnosed with Stage 4 non-Hodgkins lymphoma, which is the most dangerous stage of cancer.
• January 2023 - April 2023
  • Liam publicly announced his cancer diagnosis on January 8th.
  • Liam underwent the first of four treatments on back-to-back days, starting with the first treatments conducted January 9-10.
  • Liam concluded his fourth and final round of treatments on April 3 (MLB.com reported April 5).
  • Liam publicly announced his cancer free status on April 20.
  • Liam received a bone marrow test, and announced his treatment went well in those areas, and announced his remission.
• May - June 9, 2023
  • Liam discussed the above timeline during a May 3 Press Conference, and stated he and the White Sox have undisclosed timeline to return.
  • Liam completes the first 2023 game pitching appearance in Charlotte on May 5, topping out at 93.2 MPH over 1 clean inning with 1 K.
  • Liam completed his sixth and final Charlotte appearance on May 16, finishing his assignment with a 10.80 ERA over 5 innings.
  • Liam returned to Chicago thereafter and threw bullpen sessions before being activated on May 29, consistent with speculation in Spring Training he would return by June based on Hahn's insistence to keep Liam on the 15 Day, not 60 Day IL.
  • Liam pitched five one inning appearances between May 29 - June 9, before being shut down by the White Sox, with a 5.40 ERA.
• June 11 - August 2, 2023
  • On June 11, the White Sox placed Liam Hendriks on the 15 Day IL with Right Elbow Inflammation.
  • On June 13, Liam disclosed he received a cortisone shot, would receive a plasma injection over the next few days.  Liam stated there was no structural damage noted. Said he had pain since the start of his rehab assignment, which significantly became worse until he could not make a fist on the mound due to the severe pain, before finally being pulled by the White Sox.
  • On June 25, Grifol announced he did not believe Liam (or Clevinger) would return before the July 11 ASG.
  • During the ASB, Liam received the Jimmy V Award for Perseverance at the ESPYs. Link to his 7/12 speech.
  • On August 2, Liam underwent successful Tommy John Surgery.

Is your point that they should disregard any feedback from the player? 

This just isn't the proper procedure especially in a rehab protocol that no one has any experience with unless you've seen patients with a partially torn UCL that they've managed for years after a chemo treatment. 

Edited February 16 by ptatc

[ptatc]

Not necessarily this exact case but in in a presentation with Dr. James Andrews and his stats are that we now get about 88% of MLB pitchers back to the majors around 12-14 months with the typical UCL reconstruction. However with the new internal bracing they are returning in just under 7 months 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Is your point that they should disregard any feedback from the player? 

This just isn't the proper procedure especially in a rehab protocol that no one has any experience with unless you've seen patients with a partially torn UCL that they've managed for years after a chemo treatment. 

My point is if Bob from Accounting is returning to sit in the office or work from home after completing chemo after resting for just short of two months from his final chemo treatment, I'd say good for Bob, let's take it slow and give him any space or time he needs.

Can't imagine pitching / arm recovery time is the same a few weeks after undergoing 3 months of chemo treatment to treat Stage 4 cancer. Healthy pitchers get 42 days to build strength in Arizona before Opening Day. Whereas Liam gets 19 fewer days (23 days between May 5-28).

Sox were already 11 games out and their season was Ovah! before he returned. Classic White Sox injury management.

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

My point is if Bob from Accounting is returning to sit in the office or work from home after completing chemo after resting for just short of two months from his final chemo treatment, I'd say good for Bob, let's take it slow and give him any space or time he needs.

Can't imagine pitching / arm recovery time is the same a few weeks after undergoing 3 months of chemo treatment to treat Stage 4 cancer. Healthy pitchers get 42 days to build strength in Arizona before Opening Day. Whereas Liam gets 19 fewer days (23 days between May 5-28).

Sox were already 11 games out and their season was Ovah! before he returned. Classic White Sox injury management.

Can't say that I agree. He was throwing long before the end date here and he really wanted to throw again that year. 

Considering all he went through and the team was out of it, if he really wanted to pitch, let him. He had been managing his own UCL issue for years so let him determine when he returned as the team was realistically out of it. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Can't say that I agree. He was throwing long before the end date here and he really wanted to throw again that year. 

Considering all he went through and the team was out of it, if he really wanted to pitch, let him. He had been managing his own UCL issue for years so let him determine when he returned as the team was realistically out of it. 

You really believe he alone was managing his UCL issue with no other partners? No one else ever had feedback?

[ptatc]

7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

You really believe he alone was managing his UCL issue with no other partners? No one else ever had feedback?

Of course he had input from others along the way but he was manging it himself in a way he knew worked for him over the years. It wasn't an Oakland or Chicago team prehab program. 

Maybe a better way to say it was he came to the Sox with a prehab program and that's what he continued to follow. He may have tweaked it some based on ideas from new people. This is how it works when a players has any type of chronic injury or conditioning protocol. 

Edited February 17 by ptatc

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Of course he had input from others along the way but he was manging it himself in a way he knew worked for him over the years. It wasn't an Oakland or Chicago team prehab program. 

Maybe a better way to say it was he came to the Sox with a prehab program and that's what he continued to follow. He may have tweaked it some based on ideas from new people. This is how it works when a players has any type of chronic injury or conditioning protocol. 

Now answer this part - was he able to fully follow his normal offseason pre-hab routine during chemotherapy?

We are hearing the usual about guys being in the best shape of their life coming into ST. Is that normal for chemotherapy patients, you come out of that immediately in the best shape of your life?

[BamaDoc]

20 hours ago, ptatc said:

Not necessarily this exact case but in in a presentation with Dr. James Andrews and his stats are that we now get about 88% of MLB pitchers back to the majors around 12-14 months with the typical UCL reconstruction. However with the new internal bracing they are returning in just under 7 months 

Haven't seen the data.  Did he have any information besides recovery time between the two?  Such as those who returned to previous level of performance and reinury/tear rate?  I know bracing may not have a significant n that have been followed since it is newer.  You hear of traditional pitchers who gain velocity post TJ rehab, is this seen with brace?