chitownsportsfan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, GreenSox said: I'm intrigued by the possibilities of our starting pitching. Kopech has a TOR arm, was pretty good 2 years ago, and is on the same timeline as Cease. Soroka was a TOR guy, supposedly healthy. 1 year left on deal. Crochet has a rocket arm; hope he gets a real opportunity. Fredde is not at that level, but it will be interesting to see if his improvement sticks. If all goes well, we will have a strong staff. If only some goes well, we'll at least have strong trade capital in July. Just on Kopech, injuries have really taken a toll on his arm talent imo. Maybe his new delivery can get him to find the zone more often, but the guy that came up throwing pure gas is never coming back. I'd imagine he sits around 93-95 the rest of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 54 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: You've done a good job outlining the fWAR sources in other posts. The short of it is that around 4 of the projected fWAR is probably from guys that won't be here if they are healthy and producing mildly by the middle of July: Cease, Eloy and possibly if anybody will take him Moncada, and then that would be about -3 fWAR (rest of schedule) gone. Also about half the projected fWAR at SS is from Colson, and while ZIPS seems to think he can come up and be basically an average regular, I wouldn't mind just leaving him down in the minors all year, maybe get him a cup of coffee in September. If he's obviously too good for the minors sure bring him up, but otherwise just leave him down. I think we can all agree some projections will far short, perhaps a few far short, and others will exceed, perhaps a few greatly exceed their projections. I think the primary difference between last year and this year is the Sox are about the same when you compare actual 2023 performance and likely 2024 performance among their core group. However, I believe their depth in the rotation and position players is much improved. Their bullpen is worse than last year, but you need to blend in the last two months of 2023, which I believe the Sox can match, possibly exceed, with the people they brought it. I'm not saying there is a likely huge margin of safety for over 64 1/2, but the public in general overreact based on what happened last year. A majority here thought the Sox would win over 100 games in 2022 based primarily on 2021. Nobody here predicted a 60 win season last year. That's where I'm coming from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 22 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Fredde is not at that level, but it will be interesting to see if his improvement sticks. Yeah, I'm pretty excited about Fedde. He was as high as the #52 Baseball America prospect, pre-2017, so it's not like he's a schlub who learned the knuckleball, or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 hours ago, WBWSF said: There's an old saying, if you're only a fan of a team when their winning, you're not a real fan of the team. Does one earn extra points for remaining a fan of a team when they're winning? If one isn't getting enjoyment out of a sports team they support for entertainment should one be shamed for looking elsewhere? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: Does one earn extra points for remaining a fan of a team when they're winning? If one isn't getting enjoyment out of a sports team they support for entertainment should one be shamed for looking elsewhere? I'm probably somewhere in the middle here. I'm a died in the wool Sox fan. It's in my blood. I'll never be 6 years old again and fall asleep listening to some other team and have my pops sneak in against mom's wishes sometimes and update me on a score. But actively support? When they suck? Hell no. I'll just s%*# post on this forum, make an occasional analytic one, and skip any spring trips or trips down to T-Mobile when they are in town. Following a bad baseball team in my 20s and living and dying every game wasn't worth it. It's certainly not worth it in middle age. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I'm probably somewhere in the middle here. I'm a died in the wool Sox fan. It's in my blood. I'll never be 6 years old again and fall asleep listening to some other team and have my pops sneak in against mom's wishes sometimes and update me on a score. But actively support? When they suck? Hell no. I'll just s%*# post on this forum, make an occasional analytic one, and skip any spring trips or trips down to T-Mobile when they are in town. Following a bad baseball team in my 20s and living and dying every game wasn't worth it. It's certainly not worth it in middle age. You can follow it but not live and die with it. All about enjoying the game. I do think this team will be more enjoyable to watch.They won't win much but it will be a more sound team with less egregious mistakes. They just don't have the talent level. Edited February 20 by ptatc 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, ptatc said: You can follow it but not live and die with it. All about enjoying the game. Yes, and baseball as a 3 hour everyday in the summer backdrop will always have value. I used to let bad losses ruin my day, fug that s%*#. It's like the Bulls, you can hope they are awesome one day, but you can't get too worked up about any one game in a season you expect at most to win 40 games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said: Yes, and baseball as a 3 hour everyday in the summer backdrop will always have value. I used to let bad losses ruin my day, fug that s%*#. It's like the Bulls, you can hope they are awesome one day, but you can't get too worked up about any one game in a season you expect at most to win 40 games. No doubt. I think most of us were like that in our younger days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Yes, and baseball as a 3 hour everyday in the summer backdrop will always have value. I used to let bad losses ruin my day, fug that s%*#. It's like the Bulls, you can hope they are awesome one day, but you can't get too worked up about any one game in a season you expect at most to win 40 games. Good post. Now I expect to lose. The Sox result doesn't affect my day at all except a moment of shaking my head and laughing. ... Have I missed it or has any writer tackled the issue of Sox hammy injuries and what team has done to improve in that area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 19 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said: I was thinking this team should be a lot more likeable. Then I remembered Moncada and Kopech are still here and they inexplicably traded Jake Burger. Still, I guess the sum is still for the best. I'm ready for baseball. Some guy posted some pictures of him and his grandkids at camelback ranch on a different Sox group and it seemed like moncada was the player most interested in chatting with the kids and high fiving them and such. I thought it was cool. I don’t think he’s an unlikeable guy just because he sucks and we thought he’d be good. Kopech on the other hand… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Yes, and baseball as a 3 hour everyday in the summer backdrop will always have value. I used to let bad losses ruin my day, fug that s%*#. It's like the Bulls, you can hope they are awesome one day, but you can't get too worked up about any one game in a season you expect at most to win 40 games. At least with the Sox, there is a good chance a non-Reinsdorf will take over within the next decade, though can see him slotting in someone as non-committed to winning as he was during a near half century. Perhaps Michael is still hamstrung with his father trying annually to land an 8 or 9 playoff seed. If he continues in this manner after Jerry is gone, you would need some major random multiyear lottery luck to ever hope to have a legitimate chance at ever possibly competing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: At least with the Sox, there is a good chance a non-Reinsdorf will take over within the next decade, though can see him slotting in someone as non-committed to winning as he was during a near half century. Perhaps Michael is still hamstrung with his father trying annually to land an 8 or 9 playoff seed. If he continues in this manner after Jerry is gone, you would need some major random multiyear lottery luck to ever hope to have a legitimate chance at ever possibly competing. Everything I've read about Michael is that he's a failson that JR barely trusts. If Michael is running the day to day operations at the Berto Center, he's not doing any better job than his dad did the last 15 years. We just have to hope for an out of left field bid once JR croaks and hope Michael is cool being a minority partner. Here's hoping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I think anyone posting here regularly has more than earned their stripes as a Sox fan. Most, if not all, of us were around for the rebuild. We've seen them be s%*#. The Sox aren't the A's, but the way they've abused this fanbase's trust is so egregious that if anyone wants to mentally check out until it's shown that Chris Getz can prove that he's more than a nepo hire, Pedro can manage a .500 ball club, TLR gets out of the way, and Jerry wants to actually invest — well, to find any fault in that would be asinine at best and disingenuous at worst. 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) This summer will be more miserable than last year…….90 plus losses and no chance at a draft pick higher than 10 in 25. Edited February 20 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 26 minutes ago, Quin said: I think anyone posting here regularly has more than earned their stripes as a Sox fan. Most, if not all, of us were around for the rebuild. We've seen them be s%*#. The Sox aren't the A's, but the way they've abused this fanbase's trust is so egregious that if anyone wants to mentally check out until it's shown that Chris Getz can prove that he's more than a nepo hire, Pedro can manage a .500 ball club, TLR gets out of the way, and Jerry wants to actually invest — well, to find any fault in that would be asinine at best and disingenuous at worst. Well said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Quin said: I think anyone posting here regularly has more than earned their stripes as a Sox fan. Most, if not all, of us were around for the rebuild. We've seen them be s%*#. The Sox aren't the A's, but the way they've abused this fanbase's trust is so egregious that if anyone wants to mentally check out until it's shown that Chris Getz can prove that he's more than a nepo hire, Pedro can manage a .500 ball club, TLR gets out of the way, and Jerry wants to actually invest — well, to find any fault in that would be asinine at best and disingenuous at worst. We're firmly in the "show me" phase of fandom. We've long moved beyond "trust but verify". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 37 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: We're firmly in the "show me" phase of fandom. We've long moved beyond "trust but verify". Honestly, I feel like being Waldorf and Statler. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 hours ago, GreenSox said: I'm intrigued by the possibilities of our starting pitching. Kopech has a TOR arm, was pretty good 2 years ago, and is on the same timeline as Cease. Soroka was a TOR guy, supposedly healthy. 1 year left on deal. Crochet has a rocket arm; hope he gets a real opportunity. Fredde is not at that level, but it will be interesting to see if his improvement sticks. If all goes well, we will have a strong staff. If only some goes well, we'll at least have strong trade capital in July. Bannister has lots of projects. I am hopeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 hours ago, Soxfest said: This summer will be more miserable than last year…….90 plus losses and no chance at a draft pick higher than 10 in 25. I disagree. I think we'll see a better brand of baseball. They won't win much but it will be better to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, ptatc said: I disagree. I think we'll see a better brand of baseball. They won't win much but it will be better to watch. To me there's no such thing as a better looking loss. A loss is a loss is a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said: To me there's no such thing as a better looking loss. A loss is a loss is a loss. That's not true, at least from the prospective of most fans. If a team plays hard and smart, it's not as egregious as when a team loses due to terrible play, bad unprofessional mistakes, fielding players in a position to fail, or ownership/players not giving a s%*#. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: To me there's no such thing as a better looking loss. A loss is a loss is a loss. I know we disagree on why to attend a ballgame. I can enjoy the game without having a loss ruin it. I have worked many professional and Olympic sports and traveled with them. There probably isn't a sport that I haven't worked with at some level. Nothing beats baseball. The game of baseball is a wonderful thing. Not many things beat a day at the ballpark,especially now that I don't have to work them. Edited February 21 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: I know we disagree on why to attend a ballgame. I can enjoy the game without having a loss ruin it. The game of baseball is a wonderful thing. Not many things beat a day at the ballpark. You’re going to have guaranteed back-to-back enjoyable seasons then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: You’re going to have guaranteed back-to-back enjoyable seasons then. Every season season is enjoyable so it doesn't really matter. Some are just more than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 6 hours ago, Quin said: I think anyone posting here regularly has more than earned their stripes as a Sox fan. Most, if not all, of us were around for the rebuild. We've seen them be s%*#. The Sox aren't the A's, but the way they've abused this fanbase's trust is so egregious that if anyone wants to mentally check out until it's shown that Chris Getz can prove that he's more than a nepo hire, Pedro can manage a .500 ball club, TLR gets out of the way, and Jerry wants to actually invest — well, to find any fault in that would be asinine at best and disingenuous at worst. Good thread. For me I'm mad at myself for being so negative, but the entire LaRussa era has been one gigantic mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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