2/25 - Sox @ Diamondbacks

[fathom]

39 minutes ago, Quin said:

He just made a trade that echoes KW and RH's worst moves.

Reminds me more of Eaton for Santiago, which was a great move.  Eaton is the anti-Swisher in terms of the transactions.

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, fathom said:

Reminds me more of Eaton for Santiago, which was a great move.  Eaton is the anti-Swisher in terms of the transactions.

Or Quentin for C.Carter.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Fletcher is going to be the strong half of a platoon in the short run, and possibly our starting CF for a couple of years. All for a middling pitcher who still has major flaws to fix. If we didn't trade Mena, everybody would pounce on any person touting him as a future building block.

When he's here, he sucks. When he's traded, he's a Hall-of-Famer. 

Fletcher doesn't have the speed to play CF . His calling card as a good defensive OF are his reads and jumps.

In CF you have to cover a lot more ground and having top speed often makes up for bad jumps.

If heakes a bad read like he did yesterday he's going to look bad.

Now I don't care about a bunch of spring training errors made mostly by the kids who aren't going to be on the 26.

There's a lot of hate going around Soxtalk for good reason but hating on the new guys in ST seems crazy to me.

Blame JR all day every day for the sorry state of affairs but can everyone cut the players some slack ? We all know they are mostly fringe MLB or career minor league guys.

Please don't let you current disdain for the organization cloud your judgement on basically innocent players because they weren't born with the physical gifts necessary to be the best of the best.

It just seems petty and mean spirited like calling Benetti a dork and essentially forgetting he has overcome major physically disabilities that most of us can't imagine.

[Harry Chappas]

10 hours ago, fathom said:

Reminds me more of Eaton for Santiago, which was a great move.  Eaton is the anti-Swisher in terms of the transactions.

That Santos deal could be a move in this category.  That Santos injury doesn't sound minor. 

[Chicago White Sox]

10 hours ago, fathom said:

Reminds me more of Eaton for Santiago, which was a great move.  Eaton is the anti-Swisher in terms of the transactions.

I would just say that Eaton was a far better prospect who actually dominated Reno and did so at a younger age.  I’m not suggesting that people here are expecting Fletcher to be Spanky Jr., but I do think people are overlooking some of his flaws because of how well a similarly small statured RF prospect worked out for us.

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I would just say that Eaton was a far better prospect who actually dominated Reno and did so at a younger age.  I’m not suggesting that people here are expecting Fletcher to be Spanky Jr., but I do think people are overlooking some of his flaws because of how well a similarly small statured RF prospect worked out for us.

Fletcher wasn’t even in the same vicinity as guys like Mazara or Avi were as prospects.

Colas would be much closer.

The problem is they expect near an 800 ops again (like AZ in 100 at bats) and the underlying peripherals nearly all point towards more luck than long term sustainable success.

[South Side Hit Men]

The Dominic Fletcher vs. Adam Eaton comparisons are devoid of reality. Adam Eaton had over 900 PA at the same age, wasn’t a 5th OF platoon only guy with 102 PA entering his age 26 season.

This trade wouldn’t be defensible if the Sox were actually trying to compete in 2024. It’s absolutely ludicrous in terms of where the Sox are today.

It shows a lack of comprehension by Tony and or Getz in terms of what needs to be done over the next few years to try to get to a place they can even sniff .500 baseball.

[vilehoopster]

18 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Dominic Fletcher vs. Adam Eaton comparisons are devoid of reality. Adam Eaton had over 900 PA at the same age, wasn’t a 5th OF platoon only guy with 102 PA entering his age 26 season.

This trade wouldn’t be defensible if the Sox were actually trying to compete in 2024. It’s absolutely ludicrous in terms of where the Sox are today.

It shows a lack of comprehension by Tony and or Getz in terms of what needs to be done over the next few years to try to get to a place they can even sniff .500 baseball.

I wonder if Fletcher will ever say that a 13 year old is a leader in the clubhouse or on the team?? Hmm?? Fletcher won't be the dick that Eaton was. Remember the emphasis on clubhouse??   

I like this trade because it will help the team THIS year. I still plan on watching the games and hoping the Sox win those games. He will help the Sox THIS year. He'll play good defense, take the extra base, and bat around .260. Is anybody going to argue that that these types of results is not a BIG improvement on what, at least the last five years. 

Edited February 26 by vilehoopster
spelling error

[Quin]

Adam Haseley had decent pop for the Phillies minor league system, was supposedly good in the field, was acquired to fill an OF hole, left-handed, a little bit older.

Then he killed Mendick.

Now, Eaton is probably his ceiling and Haseley his floor, but I'm also skeptical of anyone who has "sneaky power" coming from the PCL.

[South Side Hit Men]

5 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I wonder if Fletcher will ever say that a 13 year old is a leader in the clubhouse or on the team?? Hmm?? Fletcher won't be the dick that Eaton was. Remember the emphasis on clubhouse??   

I like this trade because it will help the team THIS year. I still plan on watching the games and hoping the Sox win those games. He will help the Sox THIS year. He'll play good defense, take the extra base, and bat around .260. Is anybody going to argue that that these types of results is not a BIG improvement on what, at least the last five years. 

I am totally fine if he was acquired as a FA signing, waiver claim or a throw in like the five guys received in the Bummer trade. However this is the 2017 White Sox in terms of talent and years away from possibly legitimately competing. They can't afford to piss away any prospect, let alone a SP, for some short term 26 year old prospect they could have easily found a dozen just like him for free on the waiver wire, free agent or NRI route.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I am totally fine if he was acquired as a FA signing, waiver claim or a throw in like the five guys received in the Bummer trade. However this is the 2017 White Sox in terms of talent and years away from possibly legitimately competing. They can't afford to piss away any prospect, let alone a SP, for some short term 26 year old prospect they could have easily found a dozen just like him for free on the waiver wire, free agent or NRI route.

To be fair to Fletcher, he doesn't hit arbitration until 2026. They've got him for 5-6 years.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

To be fair to Fletcher, he doesn't hit arbitration until 2026. They've got him for 5-6 years.

 

14 minutes ago, Quin said:

Adam Haseley had decent pop for the Phillies minor league system, was supposedly good in the field, was acquired to fill an OF hole, left-handed, a little bit older.

Then he killed Mendick.

Now, Eaton is probably his ceiling and Haseley his floor, but I'm also skeptical of anyone who has "sneaky power" coming from the PCL.

There is a reason he hasn't accumulated MLB service time. Adam Engel (4.9 fWAR) is his ceiling, and he would need to outperform expectations even if they hand him 1000 PAs.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/adam-engel/15082/stats?position=OF

[WestEddy]

48 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

There is a reason he hasn't accumulated MLB service time. Adam Engel (4.9 fWAR) is his ceiling, and he would need to outperform expectations even if they hand him 1000 PAs.

If Adam Engel is his ceiling, that would be unimaginably great, and the trade would go down as one of Getz's best. 

As for picking him us as a waiver claim, or throw-in, Getz has amassed a veteran bullpen that way, and everybody is screaming that he could have spent money on slightly better players. I'm of the opinion that the Sox could have traded a pile of doo-doo for Babe Ruth, and everyone would pick it apart. 

The reason Fletcher hasn't accumulated service time is because he's been blocked in a system with a surplus of outfield talent. 

[Quin]

24 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If Adam Engel is his ceiling, that would be unimaginably great, and the trade would go down as one of Getz's best. 

As for picking him us as a waiver claim, or throw-in, Getz has amassed a veteran bullpen that way, and everybody is screaming that he could have spent money on slightly better players. I'm of the opinion that the Sox could have traded a pile of doo-doo for Babe Ruth, and everyone would pick it apart. 

The reason Fletcher hasn't accumulated service time is because he's been blocked in a system with a surplus of outfield talent. 

If he's been blocked by a 30-year-old Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Jake McCarthy, and Pavin Smith, that doesn't instill confidence.

That's like saying he'll be blocked by Eloy, Colas, and Gavin Sheets.
 

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, Quin said:

If he's been blocked by a 30-year-old Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Jake McCarthy, and Pavin Smith, that doesn't instill confidence.

That's like saying he'll be blocked by Eloy, Colas, and Gavin Sheets.

Weird that you don't think that reigning ROY Corbin Carroll or top 20 prospect Alek Thomas are even in the D-backs' outfield picture. Jake McCarthy has hit at every level. 

That's nothing like saying he's blocked by Eloy, Colas and Sheets. 

Edited February 26 by WestEddy

[Quin]

14 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Weird that you don't think that reigning ROY Corbin Carroll or top 20 prospect Alek Thomas are even in the D-backs' outfield picture. Jake McCarthy has hit at every level. 

That's nothing like saying he's blocked by Eloy, Colas and Sheets. 

I didn't mention Carroll or Thomas because there are 3 OF spots. Robert and Benintendi aren't blocking anyone here.

McCarthy - and the rest of the D-Backs 3rd outfielders - was bad enough last year that they felt they needed to go grab Joc.

Let's be clear: I want Fletcher to succeed because he's here. I'm not like the guys who get their jollies off on watching Colas fail.

I just think it was a bad trade and it was made because Getz is desperate to make a team that immediately fits his image at any cost for 2024 to justify his hiring, even if it comes at the expense of long term value.

[tray]

16 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I hope Colas gets a fair shake to make the team and start, rather than Getz handing RF to that AAA platoon guy to justify that pathetic trade or Pillar.

This should be a clean slate.

Further, I did not understand fully why someone  (I think Getz) stated some weeks ago that Colas will start the season in the minors.

[ChiSox59]

The Dom Fletcher hate is kinda weird.  Guy has the potential to be the best Sox RF since 2016 Adam Eaton.  Now that isn't a huge bar to clear, but he looks like a pretty easy 2 WAR floor guy, with upside for quite a bit.  Not sexy by any means, but a nice role player type.  This Adam Engel comp is nuts and doesn't even make sense.  

[baseball_gal_aly]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The Dom Fletcher hate is kinda weird.  Guy has the potential to be the best Sox RF since 2016 Adam Eaton.  Now that isn't a huge bar to clear, but he looks like a pretty easy 2 WAR floor guy, with upside for quite a bit.  Not sexy by any means, but a nice role player type.  This Adam Engel comp is nuts and doesn't even make sense.  

It's not about that they traded for Fletcher, it's more who they gave up to get him. Like someone else said, it echoes KW/RH's worst trades. 

Law had Mena 9th on the Diamondbacks list and Fletcher was ranked 20th in the Sox system. 

Does that seem like a fair trade to you? 

Edited February 26 by baseball_gal_aly

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

I wonder if Fletcher will ever say that a 13 year old is a leader in the clubhouse or on the team?? Hmm?? Fletcher won't be the dick that Eaton was. Remember the emphasis on clubhouse??   

I like this trade because it will help the team THIS year. I still plan on watching the games and hoping the Sox win those games. He will help the Sox THIS year. He'll play good defense, take the extra base, and bat around .260. Is anybody going to argue that that these types of results is not a BIG improvement on what, at least the last five years. 

Bat .260?  What’s his OBP and ISO?  Defense in RF will be better no doubt, but if he doesn’t draw enough bases and slug some then it’s a move that doesn’t really move the needle this year (which really doesn’t matter) and one that could cost us a young arm who could help us wins finally do matter.

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

It's not about that they traded for Fletcher, it's more who they gave up to get him. Like someone else said, it echoes KW/RH's worst trades. 

Law had Mena 9th on the Diamondbacks list and Fletcher was ranked 20th in the Sox system. 

Does that seem like a fair trade to you? 

Keith Law is just one guy.  Not overly concerned with cherry picking certain farm system rankings for stuff like this. 

I love how some here are suddenly these Mena fans.  I am sure the guy had some supporters here before the deal (I certainly liked him), but its not like he's some upside arm. Has fared OK being young for each level but a fastball that maxes out 91-92 as a 20 year old and a career WHIP over 1.4, including last year.  He could very well end up being a serviceable back end SP.  But we traded him for a guy that is already a serviceable OF that hits from the left side, something this roster could certainly use.  Seems like a pretty basic baseball trade to me. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Keith Law is just one guy.  Not overly concerned with cherry picking certain farm system rankings for stuff like this. 

I love how some here are suddenly these Mena fans.  I am sure the guy had some supporters here before the deal (I certainly liked him), but its not like he's some upside arm. Has fared OK being young for each level but a fastball that maxes out 91-92 as a 20 year old and a career WHIP over 1.4, including last year.  He could very well end up being a serviceable back end SP.  But we traded him for a guy that is already a serviceable OF that hits from the left side, something this roster could certainly use.  Seems like a pretty basic baseball trade to me. 

He's also 20 and I'm sure a decent FO will try to see if he can gain velocity. 

[Quin]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Keith Law is just one guy.  Not overly concerned with cherry picking certain farm system rankings for stuff like this. 

I love how some here are suddenly these Mena fans.  I am sure the guy had some supporters here before the deal (I certainly liked him), but its not like he's some upside arm. Has fared OK being young for each level but a fastball that maxes out 91-92 as a 20 year old and a career WHIP over 1.4, including last year.  He could very well end up being a serviceable back end SP.  But we traded him for a guy that is already a serviceable OF that hits from the left side, something this roster could certainly use.  Seems like a pretty basic baseball trade to me. 

I get to actually claim bona fides, because I picked which Dash-Cyclones game I attended based on him pitching (I wanted to see him or Vera). His curve made the Cyclones hitters look silly.

Unfortunately this past year (when he was in AA), I got Dalquist. My wife's input on Dalquist was "he should stop pitching so poorly."

[pcq]

3 hours ago, Quin said:

To be fair to Fletcher, he doesn't hit arbitration until 2026. They've got him for 5-6 years.

Last year the Sox received a .615 OPS from RF. Hope he and/or Colas can improve upon that a bit. Their lineup could be just meh or quite bad when you are hoping Moncada picks up the slack. Sheets could see some action at Charlotte if he remains.

[baseball_gal_aly]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/diamondbacks/2024/02/25/prospect-cristian-menas-velocity-popping-at-dbacks-camp/72739130007/

Because of course. 

Mena has been there for 3 weeks and is already topping at 96. 

Dumb trade, Sox are idiots and can't develop talent.