Quin Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 18 minutes ago, Heads22 said: I was told that veteran leadership would lead to outstanding defense 11 minutes ago, Heads22 said: Colas breaks up the no hitter go sox Meanwhile I saw Colas make a great play in right yesterday and that's supposed to be Fletcher's calling card. Yes, I understand that I'm judging Fletcher incredibly harshly due to me being a Mena fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 11 minutes ago, Heads22 said: Colas breaks up the no hitter go sox I hope Colas gets a fair shake to make the team and start, rather than Getz handing RF to that AAA platoon guy to justify that pathetic trade or Pillar. This should be a clean slate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 How do they manage to look bad defensively when they basically acquired a bunch of defensive specialists? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 minutes ago, ron883 said: How do they manage to look bad defensively when they basically acquired a bunch of defensive specialists? Remember, Getz the best at his minor league director job according to JR since Branch Rickey and the Brooklyn Dodgers in the early 1950s. 70+ years of baseball history. (***Well, except for letting Clemente get away to the Pirates.) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, ron883 said: How do they manage to look bad defensively when they basically acquired a bunch of defensive specialists? Fan Graphs has the metrics about the same year over year, with Andrew Benintendi somehow getting better as the biggest improvements, and slight upgrades of Lopez over Elvis and Dominic a slightly below average defender over Sheets (and Colas) the other two changes. Maldonado is a downgrade over Grandal, and substantial defensive downgrade vs. Zavala. Hoping Stassi gets the most starts without a call-up. Bottom line, the Sox were 22nd in the league defensively last season, and there is little reason to believe they will substantially improve year over year defensively. If the Sox substantially improve their win record year over year, it will be because of substantial offensive turnarounds (Yoan, Eloy, Vaughn, Benintendi) and solid performances by the SPs brought in since the 2023 trade deadline (Fedde, Soroka, Flexen, Eder, Nastrini, Shuster). 2023 FanGraph Defensive Position Adjustment Metrics vs. 2024 FanGraph Defensive Metric Projections Sox player with most 2023 starts at each position (2023 Games Started & 2024 Projected Games Played): 7.6 Luis Robert Junior (CF 141) vs. 3.6 Luis Robert Junior (CF 149) 4.0 Tim Anderson (SS 117) vs. 4.9 Paul DeJong (SS 76) 3.9 Yasmani Grandal (C 79) vs. 3.3 Martin Maldonado (C 68) 2.1 Elvis Andrus (2B 60) vs. 4.6 Nicky "Three Strikes" Lopez (2B 86) 1.0 Yoan Moncada (3B 87) vs. 2.7 Yoan Moncada (3B 143) -5.7 Gavin Sheets (RF 61) vs. -1.0 Dominic Fletcher (RF 97) -13.5 Andrew Vaughn (1B 143) vs. -11.7 Andrew Vaughn (1B 146) -14.3 Andrew Benintendi (LF 142) vs. -7.5 Andrew Benintendi (LF 138) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Heads22 said: I like how, if they win, the games don't matter. If they lose, of course they matter!! Pick a lane, Duber. I hope he's not referring to Fletcher's misplay on that triple. The sky in Arizona is notoriously hard to judge fly balls against. And the no-hitter wasn't an "almost" no hitter. That's petty of the score keeper to rule a clear hit as an error to keep the "no hitter" going. Jonathan Cannon seems to have thrown a nice 2 innings. Each team had 3 walks and 8 strikeouts. I'd call that a draw. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Quin said: Meanwhile I saw Colas make a great play in right yesterday and that's supposed to be Fletcher's calling card. Yes, I understand that I'm judging Fletcher incredibly harshly due to me being a Mena fan. If acquiring Fletcher serves to light a fire under Colas, and he becomes what he was touted as, then it's a great trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I like how, if they win, the games don't matter. If they lose, of course they matter!! Pick a lane, Duber. I hope he's not referring to Fletcher's misplay on that triple. The sky in Arizona is notoriously hard to judge fly balls against. And the no-hitter wasn't an "almost" no hitter. That's petty of the score keeper to rule a clear hit as an error to keep the "no hitter" going. Jonathan Cannon seems to have thrown a nice 2 innings. Each team had 3 walks and 8 strikeouts. I'd call that a draw. There's going to be lots of "moral victory" posts this season... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, WestEddy said: If acquiring Fletcher serves to light a fire under Colas, and he becomes what he was touted as, then it's a great trade. Ah yes, I said something along those lines when Giolito said James Shields was helping him pitch better and Tatis wasn't yet going supernova. Eventually coaches need to coach better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, WestEddy said: If acquiring Fletcher serves to light a fire under Colas, and he becomes what he was touted as, then it's a great trade. Except you shouldn't have to waste a Top 20 asset to "motivate" a player...that's how the White Sox got into the mess they're currently in, or having to find "managers" on the field to make up for Grifol and TLR's fault/s, isn't it? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: There's going to be lots of "moral victory" posts this season... That's kind of the point of spring training this early. Watch the individual performances, especially when they're putting AA guys up against the pros. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, cuban_sammiches said: Deja vu all over again. Nothing will really change until ownership changes and everyone on the baseball side is fired. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Nothing will really change until ownership changes and everyone on the baseball side is fired. Spent like 15 million on offensive downgrades on a team that already couldn’t hit. This is going to be so unwatchable. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Except you shouldn't have to waste a Top 20 asset to "motivate" a player...that's how the White Sox got into the mess they're currently in, or having to find "managers" on the field to make up for Grifol and TLR's fault/s, isn't it? Fletcher is going to be the strong half of a platoon in the short run, and possibly our starting CF for a couple of years. All for a middling pitcher who still has major flaws to fix. If we didn't trade Mena, everybody would pounce on any person touting him as a future building block. When he's here, he sucks. When he's traded, he's a Hall-of-Famer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Get used to the goose egg, defense upgrades only on a team that had trouble scoring already is disaster 101. Edited February 26 by Soxfest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, fathom said: Spent like 15 million on offensive downgrades on a team that already couldn’t hit. This is going to be so unwatchable. I'll be fine watching this season...until/unless either Cease or Robert get hurt. Then will just tune out until June/July for the trade deadline maneuvers, but even that would be boring if Cease was off the market and due to the fact that the draft this year (yet ANOTHER "plug and play" collegiate for the Top 15, maybe a couple emerging preps) won't be all that exciting either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 25 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Fletcher is going to be the strong half of a platoon in the short run, and possibly our starting CF for a couple of years. All for a middling pitcher who still has major flaws to fix. If we didn't trade Mena, everybody would pounce on any person touting him as a future building block. When he's here, he sucks. When he's traded, he's a Hall-of-Famer. While Tatis' HoF chances took a massive hit with the PED suspension...well... Tatis was a just signed, flier prospect Semien couldn't field Bassist was a middle of the rotation arm Montas had the future reliever tag Escobar was a rookie hitting .207 Dane Dunning wasn't ready to produce like Lynn (who worked out, for one season) And that's not counting guys who could have been long term depth like Hudson, Thompson, Devenski, Wendelkin, and Phegley Mena for Fletcher reeks of those trades, even if Fletcher is a rookie. He's five years older and supposed to be the plug and play right field guy. I think a lot of us trust Keith Law's assessment of players (even if it's taken a while to get there) and he's got Fletcher as a weak platoon bat and is profiling Mena as a rotation pitcher with a plus curve that could add mph to his fastball. TL;Dr - Fletcher makes me think of the days of Danny Richard and Matt Davidson. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, Quin said: While Tatis' HoF chances took a massive hit with the PED suspension...well... Tatis was a just signed, flier prospect Semien couldn't field Bassist was a middle of the rotation arm Montas had the future reliever tag Escobar was a rookie hitting .207 Dane Dunning wasn't ready to produce like Lynn (who worked out, for one season) And that's not counting guys who could have been long term depth like Hudson, Thompson, Devenski, Wendelkin, and Phegley Wow, that's a long list of bad decisions. Good thing that GM doesn't work for the White Sox anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 15 minutes ago, Quin said: Mena for Fletcher reeks of those trades, even if Fletcher is a rookie. He's five years older and supposed to be the plug and play right field guy. I think a lot of us trust Keith Law's assessment of players (even if it's taken a while to get there) and he's got Fletcher as a weak platoon bat and is profiling Mena as a rotation pitcher with a plus curve that could add mph to his fastball. I would have liked to not have traded anybody, too. Honestly. But I do think Fletcher is a good get for a type of arm they have a surplus of. Fletcher can hit, he's a good fielder. If he clicks, then maybe between him, DeLoach and Colas, they have a couple of (at least) league average outfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 49 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Wow, that's a long list of bad decisions. Good thing that GM doesn't work for the White Sox anymore. Yea just the guy he hired to run his minor leagues! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Yea just the guy he hired to run his minor leagues! ...who probably had little to no input on the trades that were made when he was the development guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Fletcher is going to be the strong half of a platoon in the short run, and possibly our starting CF for a couple of years. All for a middling pitcher who still has major flaws to fix. If we didn't trade Mena, everybody would pounce on any person touting him as a future building block. When he's here, he sucks. When he's traded, he's a Hall-of-Famer. Mena was a super popular prospect here, so not sure where you’re coming up with this theory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 48 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Mena was a super popular prospect here, so not sure where you’re coming up with this theory. Yeah, Mena as the next Chris Bassitt who doesn't blow you away from a scout's eye but simply knows how to pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Yeah, Mena as the next Chris Bassitt who doesn't blow you away from a scout's eye but simply knows how to pitch. I liked Mena and all and realize he was young for AA/AAA but he had over a 1.4 whip. Gave up tons of hits and walks. Chances are overwhelming he is not the next Chris Bassitt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, WestEddy said: Wow, that's a long list of bad decisions. Good thing that GM doesn't work for the White Sox anymore. He just made a trade that echoes KW and RH's worst moves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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