zisk Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 It's all about playing hard, every game.......after Pedro gets fired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I hope Pedro gets fired FAST in 2024. But something tells me Getz doesn’t have the courage to fire one of his KC besties. Even if he goes 10-30 to start the season, Getz still will likely keep him around. Those KC veins run deep! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 12 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said: I hope Pedro gets fired FAST in 2024. But something tells me Getz doesn’t have the courage to fire one of his KC besties. Even if he goes 10-30 to start the season, Getz still will likely keep him around. Those KC veins run deep! If Terry Francona came out of retirement to manage this team, can you confidently say they wouldn’t start 10-30 with him? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: If Terry Francona came out of retirement to manage this team, can you confidently say they wouldn’t start 10-30 with him? Are you saying Pedro Grifol is at the same level of Terry Francona? Listen, I get it— this roster is 75% trash. And no matter who the manager is— they will still be 75% trash. But Pedro proved that he was in over his head last season and also struggled getting through to not only the veterans but the young players as well. You top that off with his unusual arrogance-it doesn’t bode well for him. The mix of veterans and young players responded great to Renteria from 2018-2020. Last season was a clown show— it was managed by the guy leading the 2024 season. So before other young guys like Montgomery and Ramos come up, yes- I would like a new voice in the dugout leading the show. I also want a new owner running this franchise, but that’s a whole other topic. Edited March 9 by GreatScott82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 16 hours ago, Balta1701 said: If Terry Francona came out of retirement to manage this team, can you confidently say they wouldn’t start 10-30 with him? Why do we have to evaluate a manager by wins & losses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Priority is sign as many washed up middle relievers, glove-first utility guys, and former Royals as possible as a psychological experiment on Sox fans. The data will be dissected for generations, like the Stanford prison experiment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 So random thought, but what if Soroka magically returns to form? Would he be a guy worth trying to extend or would we better off flipping him? He won’t be 27 until August, so age wise he’s a legit fit for us. Can’t even begin speculating what an extension might look like, but my guess is it wouldn’t be exorbitant. But if you send Crochet down to AAA for a few months and claw back that extra year of control like I proposed, there is a path to a pretty solid rotation of the future (and as soon as next year) if paired with a Soroka extension. Soroka Crochet* Nastrini Eder* Cannon That rotation would obviously be lacking at the very top even if Soroka were to return to form (unless Crochet were to take a massive leap forward), but it could theoretically be solid enough to be competitive in the AL Central and you’re hope would be that Schultz and whomever we take at the 1.05 (if we go with a pitcher) could eventually provide that type of TOR production. This is all hypothetical at the moment and most of the guys highlighted above have a ton of question marks, but it’s fun to dream on guys like Soroka and Crochet going from complete wild cards to rotation stalwarts. And if it were to happen, it would greatly increase our chances of being competitive by 2026. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Timmy U said: Priority is sign as many washed up middle relievers, glove-first utility guys, and former Royals as possible as a psychological experiment on Sox fans. The data will be dissected for generations, like the Stanford prison experiment. According to Bob figuring front office, coaching staff and players, the Sox have 17 ex Royals , which proves winning isn't a priority. Edited March 10 by Dick Allen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dick Allen said: According to Bob figuring front office, coaching staff and players, the Sox have 17 ex Royals , which proves winning isn't a priority. Prioritizing character at the cost of performance doesn't seem to be the greatest strategy. Maybe it's just me. Edited March 10 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: So random thought, but what if Soroka magically returns to form? Would he be a guy worth trying to extend or would we better off flipping him? He won’t be 27 until August, so age wise he’s a legit fit for us. Can’t even begin speculating what an extension might look like, but my guess is it wouldn’t be exorbitant. But if you send Crochet down to AAA for a few months and claw back that extra year of control like I proposed, there is a path to a pretty solid rotation of the future (and as soon as next year) if paired with a Soroka extension. Soroka Crochet* Nastrini Eder* Cannon That rotation would obviously be lacking at the very top even if Soroka were to return to form (unless Crochet were to take a massive leap forward), but it could theoretically be solid enough to be competitive in the AL Central and you’re hope would be that Schultz and whomever we take at the 1.05 (if we go with a pitcher) could eventually provide that type of TOR production. This is all hypothetical at the moment and most of the guys highlighted above have a ton of question marks, but it’s fun to dream on guys like Soroka and Crochet going from complete wild cards to rotation stalwarts. And if it were to happen, it would greatly increase our chances of being competitive by 2026. If Soroka returns to form, why would he agree to any sort of extension with the Sox of all teams? Looking at what some truly s%*# pitchers got paid this offseason, he'd be wise to test the market with 29 other teams that will absolutely beat whatever the Sox offer him. I worry we may never see the Sox sign any pitcher of significance again with the deals given out this offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why do we have to evaluate a manager by wins & losses? Probably not the point. If he's under contract why would JR pay for 2 managers at the same time when Pedro isn't going to make the difference in being competitive ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Prioritizing character at the cost of performance doesn't seem to be the greatest strategy. Maybe it's just me. It's just a smoke screen. The strategy has always been cut payroll significantly and flip anyone you can flip at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 21 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: If Soroka returns to form, why would he agree to any sort of extension with the Sox of all teams? Looking at what some truly s%*# pitchers got paid this offseason, he'd be wise to test the market with 29 other teams that will absolutely beat whatever the Sox offer him. I worry we may never see the Sox sign any pitcher of significance again with the deals given out this offseason. I think it’s safe to say that Jerry won’t be the one giving out any more competitive offers for the White Sox. It will be the next majority owner. Jerry is still probably sick to his stomach that the Sox paid Andrew Benintendi $75 million. The dude hates spending big $$ and will never match the going rate for premium A level free agents. And since the last 2 starting pitchers he gave above average contracts to ended up failing (Danks and Keuchel), Jerry won’t ever spend big $$ on starting pitching again. I’m still shocked they offered Zack Wheeler a larger contract than Philly. Jerry must of had his favorite glass of red wine that day. He also was probably thrilled that Wheeler declined. Just like he was also thrilled when Machado declined that ridiculous incentivized loaded contract. Modern baseball economics completely surpassed Jerry’s expectations and ways of handling an organization. It’s time for a new ownership group. Edited March 10 by GreatScott82 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 22 hours ago, Balta1701 said: If Terry Francona came out of retirement to manage this team, can you confidently say they wouldn’t start 10-30 with him? You're right. Pedro will take them to 2-38. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 28 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Probably not the point. If he's under contract why would JR pay for 2 managers at the same time when Pedro isn't going to make the difference in being competitive ? Replacing Pedro with Maldonado would kill two birds with one stone, unless they went the Don Kessinger Player-Manager route. The best Jerry amenable scenario would be to make Charlie Montoyo interim manager the rest of the season, give him a bump in salary for his efforts and add or promote a new bench coach. Jerry wasn’t going to pay Pedro, Kenny and Rick over four combined years last August, but he’d be down to a year plus for Pedro. He also gets Kenny and Rick off the books in October, and has future savings with the August 2023 elimination of the EVP of Baseball position after they are done paying off Kenny. Edited March 10 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Probably not the point. If he's under contract why would JR pay for 2 managers at the same time when Pedro isn't going to make the difference in being competitive ? Because having an incompetent manager isn’t great for the development of young players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Because having an incompetent manager isn’t great for the development of young players. You really think he's going to hurt the development of young guys ? That's pretty hard to do unless you think his coaching staff also sucks. There are a lot of reasons the Sox aren't known for developing young talent and Grifol isn't close to the top of the list. It alls falls on JR. Edited March 10 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You really think he's going to hurt the development of young guys ? That's pretty hard to do unless you think his coaching staff also sucks. There are a lot of reasons the Sox aren't known for developing young talent and Grifol isn't close to the top of the list. It alls falls on JR. He literally said he wouldn’t sacrifice a single win for the development of a young player. He’s legit a stupid f*** and the damage he could do with his incompetence is immense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: He literally said he wouldn’t sacrifice a single win for the development of a young player. He’s legit a stupid f*** and the damage he could do with his incompetence is immense. Just my opinion but you can try to win and work on developing players simultaneously. They are not mutually exclusive. Your anger at Grifol is misplaced. When the Sox have staff and all the necessary computer tools and sciences and actually start developing talent I'll start worrying about a guy who's only been in the organization 1 year and his effect on development I maybe then I'll think about it. But JR is in charge of all spending that has put the Sox behind the 8 ball for developing youth for his whole 40 year tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: So random thought, but what if Soroka magically returns to form? Would he be a guy worth trying to extend or would we better off flipping him? He won’t be 27 until August, so age wise he’s a legit fit for us. Can’t even begin speculating what an extension might look like, but my guess is it wouldn’t be exorbitant. But if you send Crochet down to AAA for a few months and claw back that extra year of control like I proposed, there is a path to a pretty solid rotation of the future (and as soon as next year) if paired with a Soroka extension. Soroka Crochet* Nastrini Eder* Cannon That rotation would obviously be lacking at the very top even if Soroka were to return to form (unless Crochet were to take a massive leap forward), but it could theoretically be solid enough to be competitive in the AL Central and you’re hope would be that Schultz and whomever we take at the 1.05 (if we go with a pitcher) could eventually provide that type of TOR production. This is all hypothetical at the moment and most of the guys highlighted above have a ton of question marks, but it’s fun to dream on guys like Soroka and Crochet going from complete wild cards to rotation stalwarts. And if it were to happen, it would greatly increase our chances of being competitive by 2026. I think Nastrini, Soroka and Crochet would be a nice core of a rotation for the next year or so. Is Davis Martin a possible rotation dude, or a swing man? He had a couple of nice outings in 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 5 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Prioritizing character at the cost of performance doesn't seem to be the greatest strategy. Maybe it's just me. The White Sox have a problem. Players probably don't want to sign here while we still have the reputation as a sh*t clubhouse. So, the fastest plan for Getz was to shore up the defense, and clean up the clubhouse a bit. Everybody can throw out 2-5 names of guys who would have been "better" than what they did at catcher, 2B, SS and RF, but who says any of those names actually sign their name on a contract? You might be paying a rich premium just to get replacement level schlubs to sign. Getz grabbed up the guys he wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Just my opinion but you can try to win and work on developing players simultaneously. They are not mutually exclusive. Your anger at Grifol is misplaced. When the Sox have staff and all the necessary computer tools and sciences and actually start developing talent I'll start worrying about a guy who's only been in the organization 1 year and his effect on development I maybe then I'll think about it. But JR is in charge of all spending that has put the Sox behind the 8 ball for developing youth for his whole 40 year tenure. My anger at Grifol is misplaced? I can’t even begin to comprehend what those words even mean. You seem to think because JR sucks as owner and reflects a larger problem that we can’t be critical of the manager. I’m sorry, but I will critique all elements of the organization that warrant criticism. And Pedro is an absolute joke who will only contribute negatively to the organization. Not sure what your endgame is here if I’m being fully honest. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 23 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I think Nastrini, Soroka and Crochet would be a nice core of a rotation for the next year or so. Is Davis Martin a possible rotation dude, or a swing man? He had a couple of nice outings in 2022. Hard to say with Martin as I haven’t seen him since coming back from TJS, but if healthy he hopefully can be part of a competent pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: So random thought, but what if Soroka magically returns to form? Would he be a guy worth trying to extend or would we better off flipping him? He won’t be 27 until August, so age wise he’s a legit fit for us. Can’t even begin speculating what an extension might look like, but my guess is it wouldn’t be exorbitant. But if you send Crochet down to AAA for a few months and claw back that extra year of control like I proposed, there is a path to a pretty solid rotation of the future (and as soon as next year) if paired with a Soroka extension. Soroka Crochet* Nastrini Eder* Cannon That rotation would obviously be lacking at the very top even if Soroka were to return to form (unless Crochet were to take a massive leap forward), but it could theoretically be solid enough to be competitive in the AL Central and you’re hope would be that Schultz and whomever we take at the 1.05 (if we go with a pitcher) could eventually provide that type of TOR production. This is all hypothetical at the moment and most of the guys highlighted above have a ton of question marks, but it’s fun to dream on guys like Soroka and Crochet going from complete wild cards to rotation stalwarts. And if it were to happen, it would greatly increase our chances of being competitive by 2026. Flip him and then try to re-sign in offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Just now, Bob Sacamano said: Flip him and then try to re-sign in offseason. Problem is JR's attitude towards pitchers and contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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