Grade the Cease trade

[TaylorStSox]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

He also became a Gold Glover in RF with very little transition time...the only question to answer is if he's a 959 ops guy going forward vs. 825-875ish.

Almost 1 1/2 years off due to surgeries rehab suspensions and that position change probably played a role in his decline offensively last year.

 

Compared to those Dodgers' deals...no longer would be considered super high risk.

Yeah, Tatis is an insanely talented player who does steroids. He's going to put up Nintendo numbers. That's what they do. 

[TaylorStSox]

Imagine if Luis Robert was on Tatis' "supplement" regimen. He would be Mickey fuckin Mantle. He's bigger, stronger, faster, has a better swing and has a better feel for the game. f*** Tatis. 

Edited March 15 by TaylorStSox

[TaylorStSox]

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I can think of a couple specific ones. 

Back in the day, this board was known for being objective. Now, it's just an echo chamber of negativity. There's only a handful of poster who are actually objective now. The rest are just circle jerking about how much we suck. We know that. It would be great if the board could move on from that and try to be a bit more analytical. Last night I was really hoping we could have a discussion about Drew Thorpe's change up, and only a small group of posters actually wanted to talk about baseball. It's a bummer because his board used to kick ass when discussing actual baseball. Now it's a circlejerk of "jerry sucks." Yeah, no s%*#. Jerry's always sucked. 

[TaylorStSox]

Props to FutureSox. It really feels like that's the last place where Sox fans can actually talk about baseball. I can't wait for their write about Thorpe. If he can stil hit 94 on occasion, I absolutely love his profile. His change might be the best pitch the Sox have had since Sale's slider. 

[Bob Sacamano]

22 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Nobody is ever making excuses for the Sox. We all realize we suck and we're cheap. You're yelling into the wind. I can't think of a single Sox apologist on this board. 

Oh yeah you can. You don’t even have to look that hard.

Edited March 16 by Bob Sacamano

[fathom]

8 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Props to FutureSox. It really feels like that's the last place where Sox fans can actually talk about baseball. I can't wait for their write about Thorpe. If he can stil hit 94 on occasion, I absolutely love his profile. His change might be the best pitch the Sox have had since Sale's slider. 

I know the body isn’t even cold yet, but wouldn’t that have been the best since Cease’s 2022 slider?  I believe it graded out as best pitch in baseball.

[oldsox]

On 3/13/2024 at 10:34 PM, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

C- honestly.

 

i just wouldn’t have jumped on this offer. I love Thorpe too. But the 2nd piece is strongly lacking. Zavala is interesting and so confused at why a bullpen arm was added

Pads had to clear a roster space, too.

[oldsox]

8 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Back in the day, this board was known for being objective. Now, it's just an echo chamber of negativity. There's only a handful of poster who are actually objective now. The rest are just circle jerking about how much we suck. We know that. It would be great if the board could move on from that and try to be a bit more analytical. Last night I was really hoping we could have a discussion about Drew Thorpe's change up, and only a small group of posters actually wanted to talk about baseball. It's a bummer because his board used to kick ass when discussing actual baseball. Now it's a circlejerk of "jerry sucks." Yeah, no s%*#. Jerry's always sucked. 

Age might have something to do with it.

[T R U]

28 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Age might have something to do with it.

If you are registered to post on this website (with the exception of some Baltimore assholes) you are a small fraction of the White Sox fan base. If you're here, I would consider you a die hard fan.

That being said, we had to deal with years of a rebuild that had promises of parades and money being spent. No parades, no money being spent. Everyone here certainly has a right to be pissed off and negative about this franchise because we were lied to.

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Yeah, Tatis is an insanely talented player who does steroids. He's going to put up Nintendo numbers. That's what they do. 

The one he took isn't nearly as powerful as most...and it certainly doesn't help someone to make contact with a baseball.

If he's closer to 800-850 again, it would be hard to argue he's on steroids still.  He put all those pinball numbers up with a permanently recurring shoulder popping in and out of place due to repeated dislocations.

[zisk]

to me a good trade. Zavala is selective at the plate at a young age. that is a skill that won't abandon him.

Thorpe has excellent control and has a chance to be better than Giolito. Iriate has an arm that most guys dream of.

I'm sure they won't all pan out. We were gonna lose Cease in two years either way.

[A-Train to 35th]

18 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I'll give it a B, but on the lower side. It certainly strengthened the system, but the lack of a true can't miss type prospect is a bit worrisome. Despite how much I like them, I guess I'm not very convinced the Sox will actually be able to develop the toolsy Zavala and Iriarte to make all that much of a difference.

Wasn't Joe Bochard, Brian Anderson, Moncada and Kopeck all can't miss prospects for the White Sox?

[steveno89]

The glass half full fan in me wants to vote "B", but experience tells me this is a C grade trade for the Sox 

Does it have potential to work out if Thorpe/Iriarte/Zavala pan out? Of course, but I am not sure how likely that is with the White Sox 

Thorpe dominated lower minor league hitters as a polished college right hander with a plus-plus changeup, but the 90-93 MPH fastball may not threaten MLB hitters enough. I also do not love his upright delivery, similar to Rodon, that may lead to shoulder and/or elbow issues down the line. He profiles as a #4, but with more ceiling if he can somehow find 94-96 MPH fastball velocity.

Iriarte is the guy to dream on, with a potential three plus pitch mix. The control and command would need to take a full grade forward for him to stick as a starter. He reminds me of Reynaldo Lopez, with a bit less velocity. I pray for a starter, but far more likely he winds up in the bullpen. 

Zavala could be the prize of this trade, although he is quite a ways away from the majors. Impressive numbers at age 18/19 in low A, but will need to see him hit at the high A level before having an idea of what he could become. Dream of a MLB regular, but who knows? 

This is a serviceable package, although fans surely were hoping for at least one truly premium prospect in return for Cease. Getz could not risk carrying him into the regular season, where an injury or poor performance could sink his value. 

[chitownsportsfan]

16 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Back in the day, this board was known for being objective. Now, it's just an echo chamber of negativity. There's only a handful of poster who are actually objective now. The rest are just circle jerking about how much we suck. We know that. It would be great if the board could move on from that and try to be a bit more analytical. Last night I was really hoping we could have a discussion about Drew Thorpe's change up, and only a small group of posters actually wanted to talk about baseball. It's a bummer because his board used to kick ass when discussing actual baseball. Now it's a circlejerk of "jerry sucks." Yeah, no s%*#. Jerry's always sucked. 

To be fair, it's like the 4th week of spring training. At this point, beyond discussing is anybody is hurt, there is almost nothing to talk about until the real games start on the field performance wise. We'll see how good his changeup is when the real games start in Chicago and elsewhere.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

To be fair, it's like the 4th week of spring training. At this point, beyond discussing is anybody is hurt, there is almost nothing to talk about until the real games start on the field performance wise. We'll see how good his changeup is when the real games start in Chicago and elsewhere.

Yet when something interesting actually happens, we still can't talk about it without it devolving.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yet when something interesting actually happens, we still can't talk about it without it devolving.

The internet is truly wild.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

To be fair, it's like the 4th week of spring training. At this point, beyond discussing is anybody is hurt, there is almost nothing to talk about until the real games start on the field performance wise. We'll see how good his changeup is when the real games start in Chicago and elsewhere.

Over 100 people voted, with B getting slightly over 50%, so the people have spoken and generally are optimistic regarding the trade. Just over 80% hit B or C, both being fair at this stage as we will need time to see how this plays out, plus the outsized expectations of return as Getz held out the past few months for very highly rated prospects.

Think the overall discussion regarding the trade since it happened both here and in the OG thread was relatively reasonable and productive.

[WhiteSox2023]

@TaylorStSox is right.  Watch some videos of this dude pitch.  If he is at 91-92, he will be fine.  If he gets to 92-94 he will dominate like Mark Prior in 2003.  Prior usually threw around 94 with his fastball and he also had amazing control where he could spot it where he wanted to.

Watch Thorpe in some YouTube videos absolutely command the zone.  He throws all of his pitches where he wants to and his change is ridiculous.  He will be the anti-Kopech.

Edited March 16 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

@TaylorStSox is right.  Watch some videos of this dude pitch.  If he is at 91-92, he will be fine.  If he gets to 92-94 he will dominate like Mark Prior in 2003.  Prior usually threw around 94 with his fastball and he also had amazing control where he could spot it where he wanted to.

Watch Thorpe in some YouTube videos absolutely command the zone.  He throws all of his pitches where he wants to and his change is ridiculous.  He will be the anti-Kopech.

Not sure that a Top 1-2 prospect in the game who was a dominant power out of USC is the best comp.

You're describing the second version of Prior.

[WhiteSox2023]

20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not sure that a Top 1-2 prospect in the game who was a dominant power out of USC is the best comp.

You're describing the second version of Prior.

Read my post again please.  Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  I said IF he can build from 92 to 94.  And you’re a teacher?  I hope you don’t teach English.

[hi8is]

I don’t like the internet for many reasons.

[caulfield12]

 

 

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Read my post again please.  Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  I said IF he can build from 92 to 94.  And you’re a teacher?  I hope you don’t teach English.

It's never that simple.

Mena is throwing harder than he ever has and we don't even know if it's a hot gun or single gun or industry consensus.

Let's put it this way...when is the last time someone in the final quintile of Top 100 prospects saw a 2 mph change transform himself into one of the top pitchers in the game?

Especially when they velocity difference was in the below 95 range, which is usually pretty negligible compared to jumping from the mid to high 90s...

The best pitching prospects Preller has ever traded away are Max Fried, Mackenzie Gore and Cal Quantrill.

Color me skeptical.

And Fried was one of his earliest deals as a GM.

 

 

Unprecedented control of his pitches...we shall see.  Those who have watched White Sox baseball since the 1970's have heard a lot of these similar comps that never panned out.

Edited March 16 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Read my post again please.  Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  I said IF he can build from 92 to 94.  And you’re a teacher?  I hope you don’t teach English.

What is your job?  The most common thing teachers hear is that just about anyone can do that job...vacations and benefits are too generous, but very few people have the patience required.  Which is only about 1/4th of the challenge.

I teach Economics, not English...fwiw.

And it doesn't matter anyway...I will retire next year at age 54 and enjoy the rest of my life to the best of my ability.

Edited March 16 by caulfield12

[ron883]

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Read my post again please.  Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  I said IF he can build from 92 to 94.  And you’re a teacher?  I hope you don’t teach English.

He teaches philosophy. He's a philosopher. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

He teaches philosophy. He's a philosopher. 

That's the ONE thing a student here has never selected as a university major upon applying for college...

 

The White Sox certainly could use one or two to chart a strategic vision for the future...what it means to be a member of the organization.  This team hasn't really had a unique identity since the 2004-2008 years of Ozzie Guillen and Cooper in charge.