3/17 - Sox @ A's

[Timmy U]

The two rookies combine for 8 innings of 1 run ball. Jesse Chavez continues to struggle. I am not sayin spring stats matter, but it will be interesting to see if the “competition” they promised is real.

[South Side Hit Men]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Fwiw, this is exactly how Maldonado was treated last year. Way better catcher offensively and defensively in Yainer Diaz constantly on the bench because Dusty has to have his veteran catcher. 

Only have listened to games, but is Stassi even functional behind the plate at this stage? Based on game thread comments, it sounds like there may be issues, though it could just be he's trying to build strength being off for near 18 months.

I personally don't care if either of these two have a .000 OPS as long as they can perform decent catching, game planning, game calling and pitcher mentoring Lee. Hoping one of the two catchers bow out in some way by May, Lee can stay up and catch 15 + games a month. Keep Chuckie and or Carlos Perez around as well for potential call ups.

Lee tuns 26 in July, think they should use the time to develop and evaluate Lee this year and next. Same with Colas and Sosa unless they already wrote off one or both. Think Getz has at least a rudimentary grasp of player evaluation, so better than Hahn, but whether he can run an organization, think big picture, work successfully within the confines of Jerry's budget and douchebaggery is an open question.

[baseball_gal_aly]

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Only have listened to games, but is Stassi even functional behind the plate at this stage? Based on game thread comments, it sounds like there may be issues, though it could just be he's trying to build strength being off for near 18 months.

I personally don't care if either of these two have a .000 OPS as long as they can perform decent catching, game planning, game calling and pitcher mentoring Lee. Hoping one of the two catchers bow out in some way by May, Lee can stay up and catch 15 + games a month. Keep Chuckie and or Carlos Perez around as well for potential call ups.

Lee tuns 26 in July, think they should use the time to develop and evaluate Lee this year and next. Same with Colas and Sosa unless they already wrote off one or both. Think Getz has at least a rudimentary grasp of player evaluation, so better than Hahn, but whether he can run an organization, think big picture, work successfully within the confines of Jerry's budget and douchebaggery is an open question.

The Fletcher/Mena trade disagrees with the idea that Getz has a clue about player evaluation. 

[T R U]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

If Fletcher's not ready now, he never will be. He's 26. 

I think they're going to give him a chance anyway but if he looks anything like he has in spring during the regular season it is already a dumb trade regardless of what Mena does. 

It was always a dumb trade because the Sox were in no position to trade a pitching prospect for a 26 year old OFer with a low ceiling. Makes no sense. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

10 minutes ago, T R U said:

It was always a dumb trade because the Sox were in no position to trade a pitching prospect for a 26 year old OFer with a low ceiling. Makes no sense. 

I agree. No reason for the Sox to be trading a 21 year old pitcher who had reached AAA for a 26 year old OF with a limited ceiling. 

[Balta1701]

16 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Only have listened to games, but is Stassi even functional behind the plate at this stage? Based on game thread comments, it sounds like there may be issues, though it could just be he's trying to build strength being off for near 18 months.

I personally don't care if either of these two have a .000 OPS as long as they can perform decent catching, game planning, game calling and pitcher mentoring Lee. Hoping one of the two catchers bow out in some way by May, Lee can stay up and catch 15 + games a month. Keep Chuckie and or Carlos Perez around as well for potential call ups.

Lee tuns 26 in July, think they should use the time to develop and evaluate Lee this year and next. Same with Colas and Sosa unless they already wrote off one or both. Think Getz has at least a rudimentary grasp of player evaluation, so better than Hahn, but whether he can run an organization, think big picture, work successfully within the confines of Jerry's budget and douchebaggery is an open question.

The story last year in Houston was that Maldonado being great at calling a game was assumed: so much so that the manager got outraged if there were any questions about that. 

Some guys did use him as their personal catcher, Framber Valdez included. With Valdez they were happy to credit him when he had a good first half, but had no comments when he had a bad 2nd half. Their young starter Hunter Brown clearly worked better with Diaz who he had thrown to in the minors, but Brown was forced to work with Maldonado in the 2nd half to get ready for the playoffs when Maldonado was guaranteed to start (despite Diaz being better offensively and defensively by a lot). Brown struggled with this and eventually did not make their playoff rotation.

None of that could ever be Maldonado’s fault though because everyone knows he calls a good game and that can’t be questioned.

There are hints that this led to organizational friction last year. Dusty had barely retired before new GM Dana Brown took the unusual step of declaring Diaz his 2024 starting catcher over 5 months from opening day. 

So you will hear that Maldonado calls a great game. Whether that’s true or not, it will never be questioned, and the only thing that will give Lee an opportunity is injury, if last year is any indication.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

Interesting point in the rebuild: Do they want to see what they have in people like Lee and Leasure and Nastrini or are they going to value veterans exclusively, which seems to be Pedro's jam?

I think Getz might not want to start the clock on some guys just yet. I think that was the point of bringing in cheap guys with good defensive reps or ability to guide pitchers.

After trades at the All Star break we'll likely see some of the youngsters but they created 2 holes in the rotation and Nastrini could be the favorite to fill one of the holes.

Some of the young pitchers could use veteran catchers help and someone like Soroka  could use Lee.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The story last year in Houston was that Maldonado being great at calling a game was assumed: so much so that the manager got outraged if there were any questions about that. 

Some guys did use him as their personal catcher, Framber Valdez included. With Valdez they were happy to credit him when he had a good first half, but had no comments when he had a bad 2nd half. Their young starter Hunter Brown clearly worked better with Diaz who he had thrown to in the minors, but Brown was forced to work with Maldonado in the 2nd half to get ready for the playoffs when Maldonado was guaranteed to start (despite Diaz being better offensively and defensively by a lot). Brown struggled with this and eventually did not make their playoff rotation.

None of that could ever be Maldonado’s fault though because everyone knows he calls a good game and that can’t be questioned.

There are hints that this led to organizational friction last year. Dusty had barely retired before new GM Dana Brown took the unusual step of declaring Diaz his 2024 starting catcher over 5 months from opening day. 

So you will hear that Maldonado calls a great game. Whether that’s true or not, it will never be questioned, and the only thing that will give Lee an opportunity is injury, if last year is any indication.

Well, Pedro should have less standing than Dusty, and Getz should have the courage to tell Pedro we are going with younger players starting regularly. Otherwise, they are both culpable. Setting aside poor performance, I think this situation sorts itself naturally. I can't see both Maldonado and Stassi holding up physically beyond a month or two, just as I couldn't see La Russa holding up over three years of extensive travel and long hours as manager. Now he is very happy destroying yet another organization with minimal time and effort from afar in his Arizona Wine Cave / Cellar.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think Getz might not want to start the clock on some guys just yet. I think that was the point of bringing in cheap guys with good defensive reps or ability to guide pitchers.

After trades at the All Star break we'll likely see some of the youngsters but they created 2 holes in the rotation and Nastrini could be the favorite to fill one of the holes.

Some of the young pitchers could use veteran catchers help and someone like Soroka  could use Lee.

That's something you worry about a lot more with legit Top 50 guys...Montgomery and Schultz.

But we will see how long they hold back Thorpe and Nastrini to a lesser extent to get some type of indication.

[South Side Hit Men]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think Getz might not want to start the clock on some guys just yet. I think that was the point of bringing in cheap guys with good defensive reps or ability to guide pitchers.

After trades at the All Star break we'll likely see some of the youngsters but they created 2 holes in the rotation and Nastrini could be the favorite to fill one of the holes.

Some of the young pitchers could use veteran catchers help and someone like Soroka  could use Lee.

It looks to me as though Getz is prioritizing winning games in 2024. Thought the veterans brought in were a good idea, but will sacrifice player development and service time concerns to win as many games possible now if he needs to swap injured or bad veterans with prospects.

I know you have been adamant it’s smart to just try to sign and flip veterans for the future, and not burn service time. That makes logical sense, but I don’t see Tony/Getz/Pedro operating in this fashion.

Tony/Hahn didn’t care about Crochet, Kopech or Vaughn’s development using them as he did in 2021-2022. I don’t see that changing except for the improvement that they aren’t forcing rookies as the lone option like Hahn did with Mazara/Colas in RF, Vaughn in LF after Eloy’s big injury, or Madrigal/Sosa (2023) at 2B.

[Chicago White Sox]

43 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

The Fletcher/Mena trade disagrees with the idea that Getz has a clue about player evaluation. 

Can we please stop doing this every year?  Spring training stats mean almost nothing and I say this as one of the most vocal critics of the Fletcher / Mena trade.  And for the record, if Fletcher doesn’t make the Opening Day roster, that would much more indicative of Getz has no clue about player evaluation.

[T R U]

I think they’ve already made it pretty clear they’re trying to win games over development at the MLB level. Unfortunate, but it is what it is. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Can we please stop doing this every year?  Spring training stats mean almost nothing and I say this as one of the most vocal critics of the Fletcher / Mena trade.  And for the record, if Fletcher doesn’t make the Opening Day roster, that would much more indicative of Getz has no clue about player evaluation.

Idk how they can bring him north. 

[SoCalChiSox]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

The Fletcher/Mena trade disagrees with the idea that Getz has a clue about player evaluation. 

Unfortunately,  it seems you may be correct. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Idk how they can bring him north. 

He has already proven himself in the minors and more seasoning won’t really help.  At this point, it’s make or break in the majors…it’s really that simply.

[baseball_gal_aly]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He has already proven himself in the minors and more seasoning won’t really help.  At this point, it’s make or break in the majors…it’s really that simply.

He quite frankly doesn't look like an MLB player. 

He never got much of a chance with Arizona for a reason, it seems. 

Edited March 17 by baseball_gal_aly

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

He quite frankly doesn't look like an MLB player. 

He never got much of a chance with Arizona for a reason, it seems. 

For a reason?  How about Arizona’s loaded fucking OF?  When will you stop with this insanity.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For a reason?  How about Arizona’s loaded fucking OF?  When will you stop with this insanity.

I mean that should be obvious,  but lol.

[SoxAce]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For a reason?  How about Arizona’s loaded fucking OF?  When will you stop with this insanity.

You know who gonna you know who. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For a reason?  How about Arizona’s loaded fucking OF?  When will you stop with this insanity.

I wouldn't be complaining if he looked like he had a clue at the plate. 

[ScootsMcGoots]

Hopefully Nastrini ends up being a nice surprise as an anchor in this rotation for years to come. He's definitely earned his starting spot. 

OTOH, Jimenez 0-3. Definitely has sore balls. For sure.

[WestEddy]

33 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It looks to me as though Getz is prioritizing winning games in 2024. Thought the veterans brought in were a good idea, but will sacrifice player development and service time concerns to win as many games possible now if he needs to swap injured or bad veterans with prospects.

They started out with about 15 starting pitchers, and are now down to about 3.5. They have to play the games, and put 9 players on the field. Why not get the more advanced guys started this year? It would be nice to not reenact the 2011-2013 Houston Astros clown show, or the modern loss wonder that was the 2003 Detroit Tigers with an all-rookie team. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

I'm of the opinion that doing poorly in spring means more than doing well, because a big chunk of ST is against non-MLB talent. 

And who do the Diamondbacks have in the OF outside of Carroll and Gurriel? 

Thomas and Pham are not that good. 

Edited March 17 by baseball_gal_aly

[SoxAce]

Was it Jose Abreu who always sucked in spring training? I remember it was a good player who use to freak people out then when the season started they were fine (although Abreu sucked through April too usually then May he gets on fire).

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

Was it Jose Abreu who always sucked in spring training? I remember it was a good player who use to freak people out then when the season started they were fine (although Abreu sucked through April too usually then May he gets on fire).

It was Ron and his annual Abreu meltdown.