3/17 - Sox @ A's

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I'm of the opinion that doing poorly in spring means more than doing well, because a big chunk of ST is against non-MLB talent. 

And who do the Diamondbacks have in the OF outside of Carroll and Gurriel? 

Thomas and Pham are not that good. 

I can't take this seriously. 

[SouthSideGeorgia]

How long would the Sox have to put Nastrini at AAA in order to get his control increased a year? As much as he earned it in Spring camp, I would hate to waste a year on a lost season. 

[caulfield12]

35 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I'm of the opinion that doing poorly in spring means more than doing well, because a big chunk of ST is against non-MLB talent. 

And who do the Diamondbacks have in the OF outside of Carroll and Gurriel? 

Thomas and Pham are not that good. 

Pham is a FA.  Thomas is going to start again in CF.  The issue there is that Fletcher's not capable of playing that spot...and the hit tool becomes questionable for a corner spot.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

How long would the Sox have to put Nastrini at AAA in order to get his control increased a year? As much as he earned it in Spring camp, I would hate to waste a year on a lost season. 

Usually it's early to mid May...

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

The Fletcher/Mena trade disagrees with the idea that Getz has a clue about player evaluation. 

The funniest part of this is that everybody laughed at thinking Fletcher was good based on 102 MLB PA's, but are now declaring him a bust over 30 spring training PA's. Smells like Troll Spirit. 

 

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

I think they’ve already made it pretty clear they’re trying to win games over development at the MLB level. Unfortunate, but it is what it is. 

How in the world do you come to this conclusion?

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Idk how they can bring him north. 

The D-backs have seen enough, and have already cut Mena to minor league camp. Since Reno is such a hitter's paradise that surely inflated Fletcher's stats, I wonder if Mena will have an ERA less than 10.00. He'll probably cry a lot, then retire. People pretending that Getz made a bad trade should be very worried. 

[Autumn Dreamin]

17 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The funniest part of this is that everybody laughed at thinking Fletcher was good based on 102 MLB PA's, but are now declaring him a bust over 30 spring training PA's. Smells like Troll Spirit. 

Small sample sizes only matter when they confirm your priors, naturally.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

How long would the Sox have to put Nastrini at AAA in order to get his control increased a year? As much as he earned it in Spring camp, I would hate to waste a year on a lost season. 

It’s like two or three weeks typically unless it’s changed with the new CBA.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

The funniest part of this is that everybody laughed at thinking Fletcher was good based on 102 MLB PA's, but are now declaring him a bust over 30 spring training PA's. Smells like Troll Spirit. 

 

To be fair, only one person is doing this and they constantly look for things to feed their pessimism.

[baseball_gal_aly]

What have the Sox done recently to give you any idea that they're anything other than a complete clown college? 

I actually hoped that Fletcher would be decent when they traded for him. 

Edited March 18 by baseball_gal_aly

[WestEddy]

41 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

What have the Sox done recently to give you any idea that they're anything other than a complete clown college? 

I actually hoped that Fletcher would be decent when they traded for him. 

The first year of clown college is all basic curriculum, like, Extrapolating career prognosis from 30 spring training PA's 101, Radar Gun Anxiety 101 and Everything Sucks - for beginners. 

Getz's entire off-season has been a series of great moves. 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The first year of clown college is all basic curriculum, like, Extrapolating career prognosis from 30 spring training PA's 101, Radar Gun Anxiety 101 and Everything Sucks - for beginners. 

Getz's entire off-season has been a series of great moves. 

If they are just "neutral" moves in terms of team talent level and 40 man roster competitiveness from last season...that would be a massive victory.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Pham is a FA.  Thomas is going to start again in CF.  The issue there is that Fletcher's not capable of playing that spot...and the hit tool becomes questionable for a corner spot.

Yes, if Arizona felt he was capable of either covering CF and or contributing regularly as a 4th OF, he would have played last year and been kept this year instead of bringing in Randal Grichuk (Good Lord). Arizona has three solid OF starters, but their reserves are fungible, yet Fletcher was considered 6th or 7th best by Arizona heading into 2024.

If you can't beat out the three players below in your prime years, you really shouldn't be considered a potential starting OFer, even on a platoon basis.

2024 Arizona OF Reserves

2024 Salary Player (current age) - Projected 2024 PA, OPS, FGDC Projected 2024 fWAR

• $0.8M Jake McCarthy (26.6) 312, .724, 0.2
• $1.5M Randal Grichuk (32.6) 273, .701, 0.2
• $3.0M Jace Peterson (33.9) 119, .673, 0.1

Odd Man Out

• $0.8M Dominic Fletcher (26.5) 420, .671, 0.4

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yes, if Arizona felt he was capable of either covering CF and or contributing regularly as a 4th OF, he would have played last year and been kept this year instead of bringing in Randal Grichuk (Good Lord). Arizona has three solid OF starters, but their reserves are fungible, yet Fletcher was considered 6th or 7th best by Arizona heading into 2024.

If you can't beat out the three players below in your prime years, you really shouldn't be considered a potential starting OFer, even on a platoon basis.

2024 Arizona OF Reserves

2024 Salary Player (current age) - Projected 2024 PA, OPS, FGDC Projected 2024 fWAR

• $0.8M Jake McCarthy (26.6) 312, .724, 0.2
• $1.5M Randal Grichuk (32.6) 273, .701, 0.2
• $3.0M Jace Peterson (33.9) 119, .673, 0.1

Odd Man Out

• $0.8M Dominic Fletcher (26.5) 420, .671, 0.4

McCarthy was the other player offered.

Garfield and Getz went with Fletcher instead.

Peterson a utility guy the last 4-5 years.  Grichuk not much better.

[South Side Hit Men]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

McCarthy was the other player offered.

Garfield and Getz went with Fletcher instead.

Peterson a utility guy the last 4-5 years.  Grichuk not much better.

Either would have been fine as a waiver claim. I guess picking Fletcher's defensive edge over McCarthy's offensive edge made sense to Getz. Still think he will have trouble covering CF, which is the important piece the Sox need with Engel gone / injured since 2021, and no Billy Hamilton to serve as a quality defensive replacement.

To me, there isn't much difference between DeLoach, Fletcher or McCarthy. Wouldn't give up anything for them. Don't think any of them can adequately cover CF beyond a couple dozen dicey starts a year. They are all cromulent 4th/5th final reserve OFers, good enough to muddle through until Colas can figure things out in Charlotte or they try to acquire a legitimate starting RF sometime in the future.

[WestEddy]

33 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Arizona has three solid OF starters, but their reserves are fungible, yet Fletcher was considered 6th or 7th best by Arizona heading into 2024.

If you can't beat out the three players below in your prime years, you really shouldn't be considered a potential starting OFer, even on a platoon basis.

It doesn't work that way. A team doesn't rank their utility players, then only decide to let the "worst one" go. If Getz wanted somebody's #9 prospect AAA starting pitcher, and they said they wanted Zach Remillard, or Jose Rodriguez, the deal wouldn't die if they wouldn't take Lenyn Sosa. You have a group of similar production players, take your pick. I'm sure nobody assumes that Cristian Mena was the worst upper level arm from our group of upper level arms. He's a guy Arizona wanted. 

 

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

If they are just "neutral" moves in terms of team talent level and 40 man roster competitiveness from last season...that would be a massive victory.

I'm joking about the great off-season, but I really don't have any problem with any of the moves beyond signing Maldonado. We all have a pretty good idea what restraints Getz is working under, and nobody believes he could put together a successful playoff team in this one off-season. 

Last season was such a sh*t show. He had to pick a couple areas to fix. One was team chemistry, and the other was defense. 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

The first year of clown college is all basic curriculum, like, Extrapolating career prognosis from 30 spring training PA's 101, Radar Gun Anxiety 101 and Everything Sucks - for beginners. 

Getz's entire off-season has been a series of great moves. 

His trades?  Sure, for the most part.  Free agent signings?  I disagree.

Edited March 18 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

His trades?  Sure, for the most part.  Free agent signings?  I disagree.

He's assembled a group of bodies to build a bullpen from. No 4 year contracts. That's a win. I don't think there was a silver bullet on the market to provide good offense, good defense at a low cost. DeJong? fine. Pillar? catch the ball. Moose and Maldonado were superfluous, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Moose just needed a spring training with anybody to showcase and stay in game shape. His buddy did him a solid. Maldonado could be, "Here, Pedro, here's your clubhouse leader. If that doesn't work, you can tell your story walking". 

I think Getz did what he could with the starting rotation. If they go into the season with Fedde, Soroka, Flexen, Crochet and Nastrini, I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of. 

[South Side Hit Men]

41 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm joking about the great off-season, but I really don't have any problem with any of the moves beyond signing Maldonado. We all have a pretty good idea what restraints Getz is working under, and nobody believes he could put together a successful playoff team in this one off-season. 

Last season was such a sh*t show. He had to pick a couple areas to fix. One was team chemistry, and the other was defense. 

To me, and I believe a lot of folks here, all this defense and team chemistry is primarily Chuck Garfien fluff.

The White Sox need to fix runs scored (29th) and runs allowed (26th). Don't see much evidence they will improve their standing on either front this season. And that's OK, this should be a 2-4 year rebuild process.

We will have more to judge Getz on by August 1st. How the roster is managed, how Pedro is managed, did he get sign of on firing Pedro, how the draft went, what he did at the deadline, how he manages injuries. Looking for improvements on this front.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Fletcher. Not sure if you'll take the L on that front unless his OPS is under .600 or he is limited to a few dozen games in his White Sox career. As a Sox fan, I hope I take the L and Fletcher can play the next four or five years with 100 + starts a year, a .730 + OPS and solid defense including adequate / slightly substandard covering games in CF. Just highly skeptical he can deliver on any of these metrics.

[WestEddy]

21 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

To me, and I believe a lot of folks here, all this defense and team chemistry is primarily Chuck Garfien fluff.

The White Sox need to fix runs scored (29th) and runs allowed (26th). Don't see much evidence they will improve their standing on either front this season. And that's OK, this should be a 2-4 year rebuild process.

We will have more to judge Getz on by August 1st. How the roster is managed, how Pedro is managed, did he get sign of on firing Pedro, how the draft went, what he did at the deadline, how he manages injuries. Looking for improvements on this front.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Fletcher. Not sure if you'll take the L on that front unless his OPS is under .600 or he is limited to a few dozen games in his White Sox career. As a Sox fan, I hope I take the L and Fletcher can play the next four or five years with 100 + starts a year, a .730 + OPS and solid defense including adequate / slightly substandard covering games in CF. Just highly skeptical he can deliver on any of these metrics.

As far as "chemistry", when people here, at Sox Machine, SSS, wherever, talk about this team, they all say that free agents won't come here. It was a toxic situation. Not mentoring fluff, but AJ Pollock leaving money on the table to get out. To not play here. I also agree that you'd be paying a premium for the Montas/Manaea/Severino level of guys who actually get to choose between a few offers. Benintendi should have been a 3 year deal, but I'm guessing the Sox had to go to 5 just to reel in a vet.

If you're grabbing up 1-WAR dudes to fill slots, because you don't want to be paying a 50% premium to drag anybody in, seems to me that glove-first guys are the market inefficiency, and really, DeJong and Pillar are the only real guys they might roster. And again, they might have had to offer a major league deal instead of a minor league to DeJong just to get him off the market. 

Sure, I agree with the rest. I don't expect Fletcher to be anything more than a 3 year stop-gap, the strong side of a platoon. But there was nothing on the market, and they took a flyer on a guy who was blocked in Arizona. I'm ready to take the L. Every trade doesn't have to be a Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio robbery deal. But Fletcher not turning into a perennial All-Star isn't an L. Neither is the dude putting up 1.5-2 WAR a year until Wolkow takes over RF for the next 15 years. 

I really don't think Getz is playing 3-D chess, but he seems to be light years beyond Hahn, at this point, who, in retrospect, seemed to be more reactive, and wanting to win the news cycle rather than building a team in his image. 

Edited March 18 by WestEddy

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

As far as "chemistry", when people here, at Sox Machine, SSS, wherever, talk about this team, they all say that free agents won't come here. It was a toxic situation. Not mentoring fluff, but AJ Pollock leaving money on the table to get out.

It is toxic because of Jerry, who is still here, Tony, who is still here, Pedro who is still here.

No free agent wants to go to a 60 win team run by idiots and fossils unless they have no other interested teams. Guys from Korea or marginal MLB players like DeJong grabbed something early so they wouldn't be the couple dozen guys sitting around in March waiting for something/anything. Collusion has been really bad post COVID, even at the high end of the market as Montgomery and Snell are learning and Bellinger learned.

AJ Pollock got similar cash (within $1M) between the buyout and his new deal than if he stayed. Wish he would have stayed even though he was below average so they wouldn't have signed Benintendi for 5 years last offseason.

[T R U]

11 hours ago, WestEddy said:

How in the world do you come to this conclusion?

Well for one, the manager of the team said as much. The owner of the team said essentially the same thing. It also appears as if they are going to prioritize keeping these veteran players on the roster for the time being.

What makes you think any differently?

[South Side Hit Men]

25 minutes ago, T R U said:

Well for one, the manager of the team said as much. The owner of the team said essentially the same thing. It also appears as if they are going to prioritize keeping these veteran players on the roster for the time being.

What makes you think any differently?

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

- Matthew 7:15-20 KJV