Partial Birth Abortion Banned today

[mreye]

some people believe that as soon as the heart starts beating....then it's a life.

And as a first time father, I don't see how anyone, after seeing the sonogram of the heart beating and every bone in the spine, etc, can deny that it is life.

 

 

 

cw, Don't call me "antichoice." These women made their choice when they laid down and spread 'em. And I suppose it's only Dems that take in foster children and addopt unwanted chilren? Come on!

 

There's so many things wrong with the "Pro-death" crowd:

 

A 14 year old can go get an abortion and the clinic is not allowed to tell her parents, but she has to have permission to get her ears pierced. That makes a lot of sense.

 

I married. If my wife wanted an abortion, I'd have no say so. None. That's flat out wrong. How can anyone fight for a woman's "rights" and completely ignore the father's rights?

[LowerCaseRepublican]

We gotta come to some new ideas about life. I'm not being blase about abortion; it might be a real issue and it might not...doesn't matter to me. What matters is that if you believe in the sanctity of life then you believe it for life of all ages. That's what I hate about this child worship syndrome going on. 'Save the children! They're killing children! How many children were at Waco? They're killing children!' What does that mean? They reach a certain age and they're off your f***ing love list? f*** your children if that's the way you think then f*** you too. You either love all people of all ages or you shut the f*** up.

--Bill Hicks

 

I personally think abortion rates would go down if decent sexual education was taught to our teenagers and we, as a society, could effectively get past the typically conservative Christian taboos on sex [even Reagan said 'sex was tinged with evil'] By showing how everything is done, providing *gasp* condoms and taking away the 'forbidden fruit' allure by laying everything sex is about on the table, responsible sexual education would decrease the need for abortion in the first place.

[YASNY]

We gotta come to some new ideas about life. I'm not being blase about abortion; it might be a real issue and it might not...doesn't matter to me. What matters is that if you believe in the sanctity of life then you believe it for life of all ages. That's what I hate about this child worship syndrome going on. 'Save the children! They're killing children! How many children were at Waco? They're killing children!' What does that mean? They reach a certain age and they're off your f***ing love list? f*** your children if that's the way you think then f*** you too. You either love all people of all ages or you shut the f*** up.

--Bill Hicks

 

I personally think abortion rates would go down if decent sexual education was taught to our teenagers and we, as a society, could effectively get past the typically conservative Christian taboos on sex [even Reagan said 'sex was tinged with evil']  By showing how everything is done, providing *gasp* condoms and taking away the 'forbidden fruit' allure by laying everything sex is about on the table, responsible sexual education would decrease the need for abortion in the first place.

This is as scary as hell, but ...... I agree with you.

 

 

 

 

GASP!

 

 

 

 

[LowerCaseRepublican]

This is as scary as hell, but ...... I agree with you.

 

 

 

 

GASP!

 

 

 

 

LOL!

 

It's sort of weird that damn near nobody responded to the idea of teaching legitimate sexual education courses in schools and that may cut down on abortions.

[Chisoxfn]

I remember BridgeportJoe saying something about this. I think the majority of these surgeries were only done in cases of emergency. I usually trust his facts, so I don't know. 

 

regardless, it seems like an extremely barbaric way of infanticide...

I thought these were almost always done in cases where the patients life is on the line. I think in those situations it should definately an abortion should definately be allowed to take place if the patient deems it necessary.

 

I am not for or against abortion in terms of aboloshing it. Personally I wouldn't recommend my wife or girlfriend to have one but I'm not going to tell someone else they can't. I guess that makes me pro choice, but I still believe it is wrong.

[Chisoxfn]

Try going to a website that deals with it that has pictures (I went to a pro and a con website).  :puke

In high school each year some anti abortion group would picket outside of our school showing these nasty pictures of the unborn fetuses being removed and all that type of stuff.

 

I never saw the point of it cause I'm not one on pressing my beliefs down someone elses throat, but they were definately graphic and i could see how they could change someones thoughts.

[Chisoxfn]

I am tired of judges protesting decisions that are passed , 1 person having that much power is very scary.

No group has more power then the Supreme Court.

[southsider2k5]

No group has more power then the Supreme Court.

But the supreme court has no power to make something happen. Only to stop things from happening. that is where the legislature and executive branch have more power.

[Chisoxfn]

This is as scary as hell, but ...... I agree with you.

 

 

 

 

GASP!

 

 

 

 

I was watching part of Shock Videos last night and it was on Sex and the stuff they have on TV in the other countries. I gotta say their was some nasty stuff in there.

 

But on their tv everything is scantalous and about sex but they are very up front about it. Something is going on different in this countries, especially Europe and I doubt its abstinence. All I know is that the pregnancy rate amongst teenagers in the US is double what it is in most European countries.

 

I think Apu hit the nail on the head when he mentions it being considered a taboo here. Sex is natural, its something that happens. If two people want to wait till they are married...fine. If two people want to wait till they are in a meaningful relationship (not necessarily till they are married) then fine. And if two people want to just screw everything that walks...I guess fine.

 

I think the key is that when its not looked down on, people don't make stupid rash decisions. I'm still amazed by how many of my friends (whom I consider to be smart) have screwed their girl without a condom. They actually thought the pullout method worked.

 

Of course on the other side of the coin is what are the STD rates in these countries, cause for all I know they are higher.

 

But don't expect Bush to be the one who goes out and tells the youth or America that Sex isn't a taboo.

[FlaSoxxJim]

But the supreme court has no power to make something happen.  Only to stop things from happening.  that is where the legislature and executive branch have more power.

They had the power to make the Non-President Bush II Presidency go through.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

They had the power to make the Non-President Bush II Presidency go through.

 

I want to write a book "Bring me the head of Antonin Scalia"

[southsider2k5]

They had the power to make the Non-President Bush II Presidency go through.

Not exactly, they stopped the recount. There is a difference. AND they couldn't do it until someone tried bring the case to them.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Not exactly, they stopped the recount.  There is a difference.  AND they couldn't do it until someone tried bring the case to them.

You are technically more correct, of course, but the end result is tthe same and I couldn't resist... that's why I included the tongue-in-cheek >>

[IlliniBob72]

I thought these were almost always done in cases where the patients life is on the line.  I think in those situations it should definately an abortion should definately be allowed to take place if the patient deems it necessary.

 

I am not for or against abortion in terms of aboloshing it.  Personally I wouldn't recommend my wife or girlfriend to have one but I'm not going to tell someone else they can't.  I guess that makes me pro choice, but I still believe it is wrong.

You're right, I believe they are, but what sort of condition does the mother have that would cause her to die unless the baby's head is crushed? That is my point. There have certainly been babies born in the second trimester that have lived. I would venture to say that sucking the brains out of a crushed skull removes any hope for baby's survival.

[southsider2k5]

You're right, I believe they are, but what sort of condition does the mother have that would cause her to die unless the baby's head is crushed? That is my point. There have certainly been babies born in the second trimester that have lived. I would venture to say that sucking the brains out of a crushed skull removes any hope for baby's survival.

No, one of those babies went on to become the owner of the Chicago White Sox

[1549]

I know I am chiming in late, but I had to get my opinion out there on this.

 

I disagree with two of my favirote posters.

 

First of all I disagree with CW, because I think all abortions are wrong. CW brings up the point that the pro-life people abandon mothers after convincing them to have the baby. My church, and many other catholic churches, have donations to supply mothers that decide against abortion with money, baby stuff (strollers, car seats, cribs, etc...). So I disagree that mothers are abandoned.

 

I also disagree with Sideshowapu, but I am kind of undecided on the issue of sex education. On one hand, I don't think sex should lose its meaning, though I don't believe in abstinence, I did not have sex in any of my previous relationships, and don't plan on having sex until I meet the right girl. I hope there is never a day when young teenagers under 16 are having casual sex. It is bad enough that kids in my grade (11th grade) are having casual sex, I can't imagine anyone younger having casual sex. On the other hand, having gone through the public school system's sex ed. classes I can say they are outdated.

 

Abstinence is being preached to 16 year olds, when by this age, abstinence is clearly either a belief that you have or you don't have. It is impossible to get a 16 year old to buy into abstinence ijf they don't believe in it, it is a decision that people have probably already made. So safe sex practices should be taught at this age. But I think for younger kids it is important that abstinence and risk factors should be taught.

 

I know when I was in 5th grade we watched a movie that was outdated and had a bunch of kids on a basketball team talking about AIDS and Sex. "Guys, sex can give us AIDS!", I think this philosophy is outdated, rather than scaring or threatening kids, they should just make kids aware of how important sex is, and what ramifications could be (a child, hurt feelings, the risk of STD's). Then when they are in high school they should be taught about safe sex.

[cwsox]

I am not sure what the obstetric and gynecological education levels of everyone here are - and I don't mean that in an infantile "ha ha ha women's sexual organs" way. I mean seriously, realisticly, in real life.

 

As a pastor, I do not have the luxury of looking at things like abortion as some kind of theoretical construct. It is real life, real people, real situations. There is no "one size fits all" philosophy that works for every person in every situation, despite the attempts of some to make real life seem that way.

 

The medical procedure of dilation and extraction is not used on a healthy fetus, and I wish everyone would grasp that fact. Under Roe v Wade there has never been an unlimited right to an abortion for a second and third trimester sitruation. Dilation and extraction is not a procedure that is routinely used, and anyone who suggests that is ill informed.

 

There are real life situations where a fetus is so malformed that its continuence within the woman's body will kill her, if not while it it is in utero or at the time of delivery. Of course this fetus will either be stillborn or die miserably shortly thereafter. Under those certain medical circumstances the medical procedure of d&e may be particularly advised so that the woman can live and the woman can later conceive and give birth. This is a private decision between a woman and doctor - or should be.

 

This so-called scam law of "partial birth abortions" is aimed at gutting a woman's right to choose. The attempt is to get everyone worked up her about a mediucal procedure that sounds grotesque. No medical procedure is dainty and bloodless. This law passed Congress and signed by Bush makes "findings" that a woman's right to life is not a medical priority. Think about that one. That is why the courts have been so swift to declare this thing unconstitutional, again, and enjoin it.

 

Do you reall think that the courts and those who vigorously oppose this law, like me, are monsters? Do you think we are that evil? Do you think we crush healthy babies heads for pleasure? That totally wrong and I suggest deliberating lying mis-representation of what a d&e is, is astounding. It is a PR ploy. It is not reality.

 

The facade of this law is to eliminate a woman's right to choice. Make no mistake. For those who say that all abortions in all situations are wrong, this law is an attempt to get to that place. For those of us who struggle to preserve the right of a woman to make medical decisions in her best interest, this law represents a real attack on choice.

 

Unlike many, this is not an issue I discuss in school as theory, or even in church. I have driven women to the doctor's office to get the medical reports on the fetus' situation in problem pregnancies. I have held their hands while they get the news from their doctors and I have sat with women and their families as they struggled to make the best possible situation when presented with only horrible scenarios. and no good choices, and to choose the best option when no options are good in light of their faith and their conscience before God. I have taken some women to get the medical procedure done that will preserve her life and health. I have also baptized infants that were born when the medical risks did not indicate that an abortion was not the best medical alternative. This is not theoretical to me. This is a real life issue. And I will fight to my dying breath for a woman's right to choose.

 

As far as care of the born - a few church collections and you think that solves all of the needs out there? Again, I ask for a fully funded program that provides for all medical, housing, clothing, educational, and any opther needs of all children, of all people, without respect to age or citizenship status or any other factor - when that happens, then I will stop believing that Right to Life is about the most cynical and hypoctitical outfit out there.

[IlliniBob72]

As far as care of the born - a few church collections and you think that solves all of the needs out there?  Again, I ask for a fully funded program that provides for all medical, housing, clothing, educational, and any opther needs of all children, of all people, without respect to age or citizenship status or any other factor - when that happens, then I will stop believing that Right to Life is about the most cynical and hypoctitical outfit out there.

Hell, why stop there? Why just children? I would love to quit my job and have Uncle Sam support me and mine. Why just people in America? Can't we fully fund everyone in the western hemisphere? Unrealistic? Well, so is your request. You claim to be talking about real life and then want fantasy governmental support programs. Let's not make outrageous demands and then when they are unmet say that people aren't in earnest about their beliefs.

[cwsox]

Be fair, my friend.

 

I am not saying quit your job and love on the dole.

 

I am saying that all medical and dental care, housing - safe, heated, and secure and lead paint free, and education and food, be provided for all children regardless of citizenship status - that is doable. It is very doable for less than the $87 billion gift given to Iraq. We have the money to do much. We put opur money in places where it does not do any good. Halibuton could give back all of its excess profits it is making on the no-bid contracts and make mnoney for their shareholders and have billions to donate for human need - the meney is there, just in the wrong places.

 

Social service folks in your own community could take you on a tour of a world that so few of us come into contact with. Hey, you want people to work, well, then child care must be provided for parents to work at minimum wage jobs or then most loving parents will be forced to not work to stay with the kids rather than leave small children alone untended. Go to the local social service agency - Catholic Family Services is where I worked, Lutheran Social services the same good programs - and volunteer.

 

I am not advocating your life of ease and unfair to say that is what I said. I spoke of providing for the alreay born with more than a few prayers and "be well." In fact, Jesus condemns responding to those in need by saying a few prayers and "be wells" and not supplying the single parent and chilren with what they need to live on a decent level.

 

I never even see RTL lobbying for full medical coverage and nutritional needs and parenting skills classes offered for pregnant women - not very much putting their money where their mouth is on right to life, just a lot of moral posturing to be seen and heard in the markeyplace, doing nothing that is real for people in need.