Are we being too hard on Grif?

[DFAthewave69420]

52 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Most inaccurate post in a long time. Did you even bother to look at the 2021 and 2023 rosters and stats.

Liam Hendriks has 38 saves in 2021 and 37 in 2022 . In 2023 he had cancer and pitched 5 innings.

Yasmani Grandal in 2021 had a .420 OBP and 155 OPS+ in 93 games . In 2023 118 games .309 OBP and 77 OPS+

Yoan Moncada in 2021 . 144 games, .375 OBP and OPS+ 116 . 2023 93 games .305 OBP and 97 OPS+

Carlos Rodon  2021 All-Star and 5th in Cy Young . 2023 not on team.

Lucas Giolito 2021 11th in Cy Young  178 IP 33 starts, 124 ERA+  . 2023 21 starts, 121 innings 118 ERA+ sucked bad with Angels and Guardians. Grifol got more from him than the managers of the Angels and Guardians.

Tim Anderson 2021 123 games, All-Star, 118 OPS+ . 2023 123 games , 60 OPS+

Lance Lynn 2021 3rd in Cy Young voting , All Star 163 ERA+, 3.32 FIP (career best). 2023 Lance Lynn  69 ERA+, 5.19 FIP and 6.16 FIP with the Dodgers after he was traded.

Dylan Cease 2021 was a better pitcher in 2021 than 2023 in just about every statistical category.

2021 Aaron Bummer another guy way worse in 2023 than in 2021 or 2022

Jose Abreu 14th in MVP voting . 2023 Abreu not on the Sox.

Crochet played a vital BP role in 2021. In 2023 he pitched 12 innings after TJ surgery

Giftwrapped a roster of talent . That's just simply nonsense. Cease Eloy, Moncada, Anderson all were pretty bad  but is that on Grifol ? Grandal, Abreu and Lynn aged to ineffectiveness. There was no Rodon, Giolito was not a Cy Young candidate and did worse on other teams in 2023 than he did with the Sox , Does Grifol get credit for that? There was no Abreu.

Vaughn was Vaughn, a guy who hasn't shown any high level talent running, fielding or hitting. Bummer sucked. Tim was unhappy because of Grifol ? or was his whole life in a tailspin ?

The best you can say is that the Sox core was injured a lot or inconsistent from year to year. Other guys aged . Robert had his best year under Grifol. Circumstances or does Grifol get credit ?

Not defending Grifol per se, just think your post was factually inaccurate and all the woes of 2023 shouldn't be layed at Grifols feet.

how much time did you waste writing this?  Are you sweating?

[A-Train to 35th]

17 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

When the same person talks up a good game, preaches playing smart and hard, and completely gets the opposite results? No, not being to hard. Pedro doesn't have what it takes to be a major league manager. I'd be shocked if we ever see him manage a team again after his Sox tenure eventually ends.

He kInda reminds me of Bevington before the rage set in.  Jerry would never hire an experienced manager other than brain dead Tony because he wants to think he's the smartest baseball person in the room and quite frankly he doesn't want to spend the money it would take to hire someone like Bochy.   JR has had plenty of opportunities to hire a qualified manager and he always goes for the unknown or someone already on or had been on the Sox payroll.   Perhaps he tried to get Bochy when he was available, but his agents most likely told the Sox he wasn't interested in a loser organization.

[ron883]

3 hours ago, DFAthewave69420 said:

The corpse of TLR won a division with this team and had the same club hovering .500 the next year until the pressure nearly killed the man. 

Grifol had a giftwrapped roster of talent and they looked like they forgot how to play baseball. 

Need a new man at the helm in 2025.  Probably will be current AAA Manager J.J. since he will be ready for the bright lights.

@southsider2k5

[WhiteSox2023]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

@southsider2k5

LOL!!!  ? 

[WhiteSox2023]

35 minutes ago, DFAthewave69420 said:

how much time did you waste writing this?  Are you sweating?

Grifol is pathetic but defending TLR on anything is clown shoes.  Dude fell asleep in the dugout.

[DFAthewave69420]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Grifol is pathetic but defending TLR on anything is clown shoes.  Dude fell asleep in the dugout.

Who is defending TLR?  They both shouldn't have been in the dugout.  

[WhiteSox2023]

Just now, DFAthewave69420 said:

Who is defending TLR?  They both shouldn't have been in the dugout.  

Okay, I now see what you meant with your post.

[The Mighty Mite]

Something happened to the team after TLR was hired, it might have been the Mercedes incident but after the 2022 All Star break things starting going south as the team went from very good to mediocre to one of the worst Sox teams in history. The team played hard for Renteria and we will always wonder what the results would have been if JR hadn’t canned Ricky.

In one respect Grifol is a victim of circumstances but his managing last year was absolutely horrible and he is very unlikable, the man should have never been hired in the first place.

 

Edited March 29 by The Mighty Mite

[greg775]

The fact the Royals didn't hire Grifol is all we need to know. Please fire him soon. And please sell the team. Sox will not be a factor again til the team is sold and somebody who pursues winning takes over. I'm sure of that.

[WestEddy]

I don't like Grifol. He reminds me of Bevington. But he should be obsessed with turning this team around. 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/03/29/pedro-grifol-obsessed-with-turning-white-sox-around

 

[JoeC]

10 minutes ago, greg775 said:

The fact the Royals didn't hire Grifol is all we need to know. Please fire him soon. And please sell the team. Sox will not be a factor again til the team is sold and somebody who pursues winning takes over. I'm sure of that.

...and people say we're trying to be like KC. The Royals didn't want Grifol, and we did. Isn't that enough of a difference??? </sarc>

[WhiteSox2023]

19 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't like Grifol. He reminds me of Bevington. But he should be obsessed with turning this team around. 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/03/29/pedro-grifol-obsessed-with-turning-white-sox-around

 

He’s obsessed with keeping his undeserved job.

[nrockway]

I watched an "interview" of Chris Getz with AJ Pierzynski and friends last night. They asked him about Pedro and he sounded pretty frank that Pedro would be out of a job if he doesn't get good years out of Eloy, Moncada, Vaughn, Robert -- "the core". That the manager's only job is to get the best out of his players (duh) and that will be reflected on how those players perform. At least that's how I interpreted it. Seems like a reasonable barometer anyway.

I don't know how much of last season's dumpster fire can be pinned on Grifol. He certainly didn't help. I think he was the wrong hire to begin with but I don't see what it hurts giving him another year, maybe he can actually be good at his job under appropriate working conditions.

Beyond potentially being good at his job (I don't believe this), keeping him around another year might signal to his replacement that there's some job security in this manager position. haven't exactly shown a strong track record there recently. probably scares away proper candidates.

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I watched an "interview" of Chris Getz with AJ Pierzynski and friends last night. They asked him about Pedro and he sounded pretty frank that Pedro would be out of a job if he doesn't get good years out of Eloy, Moncada, Vaughn, Robert -- "the core". That the manager's only job is to get the best out of his players (duh) and that will be reflected on how those players perform. At least that's how I interpreted it. Seems like a reasonable barometer anyway.

I don't know how much of last season's dumpster fire can be pinned on Grifol. He certainly didn't help. I think he was the wrong hire to begin with but I don't see what it hurts giving him another year, maybe he can actually be good at his job under appropriate working conditions.

Beyond potentially being good at his job (I don't believe this), keeping him around another year might signal to his replacement that there's some job security in this manager position. haven't exactly shown a strong track record there recently. probably scares away proper candidates.

While driving home last night I heard Chuck interviewed by Buster Olney on ESPN Radio and one of the things Buster said was, to paraphrase "often when you hear about clubhouse issues they're minor or blown up, but from what I heard last year in Chicago those issues were real and they were bad."

Even the national guys got that part of the story.

[WestEddy]

3 hours ago, nrockway said:

I watched an "interview" of Chris Getz with AJ Pierzynski and friends last night. They asked him about Pedro and he sounded pretty frank that Pedro would be out of a job if he doesn't get good years out of Eloy, Moncada, Vaughn, Robert -- "the core". That the manager's only job is to get the best out of his players (duh) and that will be reflected on how those players perform. At least that's how I interpreted it. Seems like a reasonable barometer anyway.

I don't know how much of last season's dumpster fire can be pinned on Grifol. He certainly didn't help. I think he was the wrong hire to begin with but I don't see what it hurts giving him another year, maybe he can actually be good at his job under appropriate working conditions.

Beyond potentially being good at his job (I don't believe this), keeping him around another year might signal to his replacement that there's some job security in this manager position. haven't exactly shown a strong track record there recently. probably scares away proper candidates.

And don't promote any of the name prospects if those 4 aren't cooking. 

"These are the Glengarry prospects. And to you they're gold, and you don't get them. Why? Because to give them to you would be throwing them away."

[chitownsportsfan]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

While driving home last night I heard Chuck interviewed by Buster Olney on ESPN Radio and one of the things Buster said was, to paraphrase "often when you hear about clubhouse issues they're minor or blown up, but from what I heard last year in Chicago those issues were real and they were bad."

Even the national guys got that part of the story.

It's not very fun to come to work when the company is in the red and everybody hates things. In general, chemistry is downstream of performance. And performance is downstream of a players' true talent, not anybody else's on the team. TLR was decent for one year, so was RV, so was ____. And Grifol will go down as another shitass manager that led shitass teams. We don't get "good" managers often here.

Long story short, I'll guarantee the next good Sox team has "good chemistry", whoever the manager is. 

[South Side Hit Men]

Chuck Tanner and Jeff Torborg were the two Sox managers who seemed to consistently get more out of their team and players than the talent level on paper.

I agree with @CaliSoxFanViaSWside that Pedro inherited weak talent and depth, plus a poor clubhouse from Tony. Perhaps Pedro will improve in game decisions and also hold veterans accountable this year.

The manager over the next few years will really need to be solid developing and mentoring the next group of prospects. Not sure Pedro is the best fit on that end without a lot of growth and guidance.

[Chimpton]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Chuck Tanner and Jeff Torborg were the two Sox managers who seemed to consistently get more out of their team and players than the talent level on paper.

I agree with @CaliSoxFanViaSWside that Pedro inherited weak talent and depth, plus a poor clubhouse from Tony. Perhaps Pedro will improve in game decisions and also hold veterans accountable this year.

The manager over the next few years will really need to be solid developing and mentoring the next group of prospects. Not sure Pedro is the best fit on that end without a lot of growth and guidance.

I think that is the problem with TLR still lurking around whispering in Jerry's ear and Getz as a rookie GM where will Grifol get that guidance?

I think that the way things are keeping Grifol this season is not a total disaster, but he has to show some signs of becoming a competent MLB manager. A repeat of last season in terms of they way they played and the way he managed would be a wasted season and could do damage to young players development.

With all the new players and the 'rebuilding' the team needs a manager to guide the younger players and teach them fundamentals not a manager who is learning himself and shown few signs of being up to the job himself. Whilst there is something to be said for the team and manager learning and growing together nothing he has done or said so far suggests that is going to happen.

[ScootsMcGoots]

15 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Something happened to the team after TLR was hired, it might have been the Mercedes incident but after the 2022 All Star break things starting going south as the team went from very good to mediocre to one of the worst Sox teams in history. The team played hard for Renteria and we will always wonder what the results would have been if JR hadn’t canned Ricky.

In one respect Grifol is a victim of circumstances but his managing last year was absolutely horrible and he is very unlikable, the man should have never been hired in the first place.

 

In hindsight I would think that all of us would take Renteria over his 2 successors. Although at the time of his firing, I think a lot of us thought they were going to bring in someone like Hinch. Then JR quickly reminded us how incompetent he is at running baseball teams. I don't think keeping Renteria would have changed much... honestly we'd all probably be here bitching that Jerry is too loyal and he should have had the balls to bring someone else in had they did keep him... but I do sometimes wonder if keeping Ricky could have turned into somewhat of a Cinderella story like Dan Campbell has with the Detroit Lions.

[Falstaff]

Getz has got this; he can make moves and decisions and probably has a list of candidates to replace Grifol if needed.

 

Edited March 30 by Falstaff
typo

[Snopek]

7 hours ago, Chimpton said:

I think that is the problem with TLR still lurking around whispering in Jerry's ear and Getz as a rookie GM where will Grifol get that guidance?

IMO Grifol has plenty of guidance, but it’s all from TLR ?

And with him seemingly being a bit of spineless kiss ass, I think he’s taking any TLR guidance as gospel instead of being his own manager.

Just my tinfoil hat two cents.

[CentralChamps21]

Hoping that the Sox replace Grifol while JR still owns the team is a lot like hoping a person with two broken legs gets new shoes.

[Texsox]

On 3/28/2024 at 6:42 PM, ron883 said:

What's a manager supposed to do when he inherits a garbage team with a broken culture? He can't make the players good. He says unrealistic things, but that's part of the job. He can't just say "we suck and won't win anything."

 

It's too hard to judge a manager when the talent is piss poor. Let's give Grif a chance with at least SOME talent before we judge him to harshly. When that will be, I don't know. 

He's going to be the Doug Collins of baseball. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

Those who remember Bevington, was he worse than Grifol? 

I thought Ventura and Renteria were bad, but they look like geniuses in comparison to Pedro. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Those who remember Bevington, was he worse than Grifol? 

I thought Ventura and Renteria were bad, but they look like geniuses in comparison to Pedro. 

Bevington was bad in a very "unique" way at least...Grifol is just bad.

September 30, 1997 - After controversies on and off the field (calling for a relief pitcher with no one warming up, a fistfight with umpire Richie Garcia at a steakhouse, a brawl near third base with Brewer’s manager Phil Garner) manager Terry Bevington was fired. No flowers were sent and no Sox fan (or player) shed any tears.