White Sox bring Mike Clevinger back, pending physical

[joejoesox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Return on investment?  So they can win 61 games instead of 57?  It's a trash move by a third rate franchise who keeps shooting themselves in the foot.

Again if they really thought he was worth a "Return on investment", they would have looked to bring him back months ago for more than barely over minimum.  He obviously wasn't someone they placed a real premium on after seeing him for an entire year.

i would not be surprised, like at all, if they're making moves now to prevent a sub-60 loss season.  that's exactly something they would do

[Milkman delivers]

1 minute ago, joejoesox said:

i would not be surprised, like at all, if they're making moves now to prevent a sub-60 loss season.  that's exactly something they would do

This is basically the most concise way to put it.

[joejoesox]

Just now, Milkman delivers said:

This is basically the most concise way to put it.

a front office that knew what they were doing, assuming money constraints, would just let it burn and put out the best PR spin as humanly possible while being mostly honest.  at least the fans would respect it.  this is just straight lying to the fanbase on what their goals are for 2024

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

It makes the team better on paper. That’s the main thing.

Then sign a fucking bat or 6.

[Milkman delivers]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then sign a fucking bat or 6.

I am not arguing with you. They absolutely should. I’m just explaining why I think they made this one particular move.

I s%*# on this franchise enough. I should defend the logic in their moves occasionally haha.

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

The Sox retained the salaries of everyone else they traded, why would it be any different for Clev? $4mil in cash was not the difference between trading Clevinger or not. 

Clevinger was injured at the trade deadline. He wasn't healthy enough to trade. Nobody claimed him on waivers because they would've been on the hook for a $4 million buyout. That fact is getting lost in the narratives I believe. 

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

I am not arguing with you. They absolutely should. I’m just explaining why I think they made this one particular move.

I s%*# on this franchise enough. I should defend the logic in their moves occasionally haha.

This move isn't logical. They are blocking a slot where someone is ready and they didn't get an asset which could have even a minimal future value.

[Milkman delivers]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This move isn't logical. They are blocking a slot where someone is ready and they didn't get an asset which could have even a minimal future value.

I guess we have to agree to disagree at this point.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Clevinger was injured at the trade deadline. He wasn't healthy enough to trade. Nobody claimed him on waivers because they would've been on the hook for a $4 million buyout. That fact is getting lost in the narratives I believe. 

This isn’t exactly true.  Yes, Clevinger was injured leading up to the trade deadline but he returned for a start against the Guardians on 7/29/2023, three days before the trade deadline.  It was a good start and a win for him — 5 innings, 2 hits, 3 strikeouts, no walks, and no runs.  He was healthy enough to trade with three days remaining before the deadline and teams have actually traded for injured players at the deadline before anyways, so that wasn’t the issue.

There was less time for teams to assess Clevinger since his return start was just three days before the deadline, but surely starter-needy teams would have pounced on Clevinger + cash for a mediocre prospect if there was any interest throughout the MLB.

Edited April 2 by WhiteSox2023

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

So this dude is going to cost something like 3-4 minimum salaries as a statistically good SP and NO ONE WANTED HIM.  That should tell everyone why no one wanted him at the deadline.  He was as close to free as you can pretty much get and still no one was interested. 

He was placed on waivers at least once and had zero takers, so zero prospects were needed to acquire him, just the desire to pick up his contract and whatever baggage he may carry / still carry.

11 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Is there any internal discussion of bringing in any low cost unsigned starters / waiver claims (between $740K and $3M)?

Don't understand why Getz is so obsessed stashing early to mid 30s guys (Pillar, Grossman, Phillips, Ortega) in addition to Fletcher, Colas, Sheets, and DeLoach  for RF and a 4th OF.

Whereas they are already burning prospects and starting the clock on guys like Nastrini with four AAA starts at his highest level.

Rich Hill, Johnny Queto can likely get you 20-25 starts this year covering 100 + innings. The White Sox desperately need innings eaters just to survive the season. Why won't they add a 5th / 6th starter, especially after demoting Kopech? 

As always with this organization, be careful what you wish / ask for, because fans typically get something even worse than what they formally had or were facing. 

I didn’t listen to any Clevinger appearances last year, skipped these games including buying tickets. I rationalized the other four games by chalking up his signing to the hallmark Reinsdorf organization lack of managerial competence versus knowingly signing someone with ongoing domestic violence issues. This despite the fact they very well knew of his toxic clubhouse issues in Cleveland and San Diego.

Before deciding to boycott White Sox baseball for a third time, until MLB approves a new permanent non Reinsdorf ownership, I will wait to see whether Getz and Clevinger address concerns regarding his clubhouse presence, management of his domestic violence proclivities, including how the MLB mandated personal therapy sessions may help him better manage his interactions with his children, family, and society.

I believe people should have a chance at redemption if they are truly remorseful and try daily to improve and become a better person. The Golddigger walk up indicated he (and the White Sox) still had significant issues that needed to be resolved last year, including the fact that the club was indulging his worst impulses. The one positive is there have been no public news items or even rumors of new domestic violence issues since he signed last year.

Getz at minimum needs to have an open honest public discussion addressing legitimate fan and societal concerns regarding Clevinger. If Getz fails to properly address these concerns, and or Mike Clevinger fails to answer legitimate questions as to how he is working to become a better person, then I’m done until MLB approves a non Reinsdorf control person down the line, assuming that ever happens.

 Jerry ultimately signed off on this, regardless of whether Tony La Russa and or Getz approved Clevinger’s recruitment and signing.

[WhiteSox2023]

13 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

He was placed on waivers at least once and had zero takers, so zero prospects were needed to acquire him, just the desire to pick up his contract and whatever baggage he may carry / still carry.

As always with this organization, be careful what you wish / ask for, because fans typically get something even worse than what they formally had or were facing. 

I didn’t listen to any Clevinger appearances last year, skipped these games including buying tickets. I rationalized the other four games by chalking up his signing to the hallmark Reinsdorf organization lack of managerial competence versus knowingly signing someone with ongoing domestic violence issues. This despite the fact they very well knew of his toxic clubhouse issues in Cleveland and San Diego.

Before deciding to boycott White Sox baseball for a third time, until MLB approves a new permanent non Reinsdorf ownership, I will wait to see whether Getz and Clevinger address concerns regarding his clubhouse presence, management of his domestic violence proclivities, including how the MLB mandated personal therapy sessions may help him better manage his interactions with his children, family, and society.

I believe people should have a chance at redemption if they are truly remorseful and try daily to improve and become a better person. The Golddigger walk up indicated he (and the White Sox) still had significant issues that needed to be resolved last year, including the fact that the club was indulging his worst impulses. The one positive is there have been no public news items or even rumors of new domestic violence issues since he signed last year.

Getz at minimum needs to have an open honest public discussion addressing legitimate fan and societal concerns regarding Clevinger. If Getz fails to properly address these concerns, and or Mike Clevinger fails to answer legitimate questions as to how he is working to become a better person, then I’m done until MLB approves a non Reinsdorf control person down the line, assuming that ever happens.

 Jerry ultimately signed off on this, regardless of whether Tony La Russa and or Getz approved Clevinger’s recruitment and signing.

Clevinger’s accuser dropped her lawsuit last year.  Clevinger, Reinsdorf, and/or Getz won’t be addressing anything regarding last year’s accusations, resolution, and follow-up.  As far as anyone is concerned at this point, Clevinger isn’t guilty of anything and the MLB cleared him to play.

Edited April 2 by WhiteSox2023

[South Side Hit Men]

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

Clevinger’s accuser dropped her lawsuit last year. Clevinger, Reinsdorf, and/or Getz won’t be addressing anything regarding last year’s accusations.

Dropping a lawsuit is irrelevant to my concerns. Most people including single mothers can’t afford a lengthy legal battle with a multi millionaire.

If there isn’t an honest discussion by the organization addressing legitimate public concerns, that is their choice. Boycotting will be thousands of fans choice as well. I’ll skip the games at this point, but monitor SoxTalk for updates.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

9 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Dropping a lawsuit is irrelevant to my concerns. Most people including single mothers can’t afford a lengthy legal battle with a multi millionaire.

If there isn’t an honest discussion by the organization addressing legitimate public concerns, that is their choice. Boycotting will be thousands of fans choice as well. I’ll skip the games at this point, but monitor SoxTalk for updates.

 

i get it, but at the same time, maybe he'll give us some good innings and help win a few games.

[WhiteSox2023]

Merkin has posted a story about this unofficial signing.  No excerpt about the accusations from last year.

“Clevinger returning to White Sox on 1-year deal (source)”

[46DidIt]

14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Dropping a lawsuit is irrelevant to my concerns. Most people including single mothers can’t afford a lengthy legal battle with a multi millionaire.

If there isn’t an honest discussion by the organization addressing legitimate public concerns, that is their choice. Boycotting will be thousands of fans choice as well. I’ll skip the games at this point, but monitor SoxTalk for updates.

 

Yeah but your concerns are irrelevant to the actual situation 

[South Side Hit Men]

57 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

Yeah but your concerns are irrelevant to the actual situation 

I agree no single individual fan’s concerns are relevant. 

However, 35,000 - 40,000 plus empty seats during many games last year, the past two games and future upcoming games this season and beyond indicate collective fan concerns are relevant to the situation. See also low TV and near non existent radio ratings, despite quality radio broadcasts.

James Fegan with a thought piece on this situation.

https://soxmachine.com/2024/04/mike-clevinger-returning-to-white-sox-for-reasons-yet-to-be-outlined/#comment-9152879
 

Quote

Somewhere between the Tony La Russa tenure and last year’s disastrous 101-loss season, a sizable portion of the White Sox fan base stopped affording the White Sox the benefit of the doubt on decisions that seemed dubious on their face. Whether you have a complex understanding of the difficulty of substantiating abuse allegations in this country, exhaustion with the public discourse around how these cases are weighed against on-field production, or simply distrust this team’s vetting process after they were surprised by the Clevinger’s allegations last year, this move can read as a puzzlingly willful test of the team’s all-but-evaporated goodwill. Clevinger’s disciplinary record with the White Sox is clean despite acknowledging him as a calculated risk upon entry, yet his public reputation remains weathered.

James Fegan believes the club needs to properly explain his return.

Quote

But for now the second season in a row, it’s the White Sox who have been the winning bidder for his services. So it lies upon them to properly explain why Clevinger, and all his association with the franchise entails, remains essential.

If I cancel my Sox Machine and Future Sox patreon, it will be due to lack of further interest in White Sox baseball, and not a reflection of the good work both entities do in covering a inept organization. An organization doing everything possible to make it difficult for any fan to like and joyfully follow the team.

[southsider2k5]

5 hours ago, 4OCS said:

Yeah but your concerns are irrelevant to the actual situation 

Well I am personally thrilled we made you the arbitor of what is relevant or not at Soxtalk.

[Texsox]

11 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

You will see some guys who are still looking for another contract trying. You will see others just mailing it in, as they have nothing to play for, and this is likely their last stint in the MLB... This team is hopeless, and the players know it just as much as we do. Look at the bottom half of this order, and their leadoff hitter. These guys are all out of the MLB VERY soon.

I agree they will be out, but you don't get to this point by giving up that easily. I think we get fooled by the emotional outward signs. Sports psychologist generally try to move players away from the emotional outbursts of throwing helmets, punching walls, etc that we were conditioned to believe were signs of players trying. Instead we should see steady, focused, one pitch at a time, non emotional, playing. They may not be very skilled players, and many will be out of the league soon, but my guess is it will be their ability not lack of trying, ending their career. 

That lack of ability, physically and mentally, will sometimes be seen as a lack of trying when they hesitate, slow down, etc. 

I am seeing inept, old, less skilled players out there, but so far I'm seeing trying. But it's the Sox, they could decide they want to quiet quit and end their careers.  

[ChiSox59]

1 year $3M with an additional $3M in incentives is the deal. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

13 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They had this low ball offer out to him for a while.  I honestly can't believe no one would beat it and he finally caved. 

This is one of the funniest Harold Getz apologists posts ever....

This "low ball" offer was the best offer clevinger got so how is it a lowball 

[caulfield12]

https://twitter.com/chgo_whitesox/status/1774946791139496077/mediaviewer

[WhiteSox2023]

24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is one of the funniest Harold Getz apologists posts ever....

This "low ball" offer was the best offer clevinger got so how is it a lowball 

I took it to mean that the Sox made this offer awhile ago and Clevinger thought he could do better so he kept waiting.  Finally, Clevinger accepted it because he received no better offers.  But yes, that would pretty much mean the Sox offer was the highest offer.

[Snopek]

9 hours ago, joejoesox said:

i would not be surprised, like at all, if they're making moves now to prevent a sub-60 loss season.  that's exactly something they would do

If true, it’s pretty amusing to me that them trying to save face with moves like this would only make them look worse.

It would mean that they actually believed the sad roster they patched together was going to be more competitive.

[Kyyle23]

I’m never gonna be a fan again if the Sox sign Clevinger

*Sox sign Clevinger*
 

….huh.  Let’s just see how this plays out 

[JoeC]

Does the team technically have motivation to finish with the 11th-worst record, somehow?
Like, they know the team is going to suck, but being in the bottom 10 will get you the 11th pick (I think) based on the new draft rules… so they’re going to go “all in” on 11th-worst?

Not that that’s achievable or anything, but I’m just trying to understand the motivations….