White Sox bring Mike Clevinger back, pending physical

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like they did right to Pillar?

Same as Pillar actually. They didn't have to pay Pillar . His contract wasn't guaranteed so they said you're not making the team when we rather have the money.

They didn't have to pay Clevinger more than they did because he was unwanted. He got a little more than the Pillar money.

Both purely business decisions. There are contracts structured the same way all over baseball for the guys hanging on by a thread that say if you make the team we'll pay you more and then they are cut. Pillar's situation was not unique . No one would give him what the Sox offer was. It's a contract ,maybe him or his agent should have read it. If you have people over a barrel in business they have to accept offers on your terms.

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Same as Pillar actually. They didn't have to pay Pillar . His contract wasn't guaranteed so they said you're not making the team when we rather have the money.

They didn't have to pay Clevinger more than they did because he was unwanted. He got a little more than the Pillar money.

Both purely business decisions. There are contracts structured the same way all over baseball for the guys hanging on by a thread that say if you make the team we'll pay you more and then they are cut. Pillar's situation was not unique . No one would give him what the Sox offer was. It's a contract ,maybe him or his agent should have read it. If you have people over a barrel in business they have to accept offers on your terms.

I agree that Pillar can only blame himself and his agent. They clearly misidentified the market for him as nobody wanted him (other than our Sox of course...) at the MLB min, and certainly not +3 million. That's his and his agent's fault. Chicago's role in it was dumb too, but the fault lies with Pillar's camp.

[joejoesox]

just for clarification, I read last year after we signed him that he burned his kid with a cigarette, apparently that was not true, that's my fault for not reading up more on the accusations

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

In all fairness, there have also been a number of teams who cut players who won arbitration hearings against them as well.

Isn't that even more unseemly?

 

But there's never any surprises with the Sox, after they fought with Giolito over $25,000 and poisoned that relationship.

That's overblown. Gio has always said he liked it in Chicago and would be open to coming back.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, Snopek said:

Can someone smarter than me rationalize this move as a way to maybe help players on the team that actually matter?

Like, does this help Nastrini in that he gets more time to develop?

Does this somehow help potential trade chips like Soroka and Fedde because it takes some pressure off of them to go deeper into games in order to save the bullpen?

Yes ? I think one part of Getz plan is to gather as much minor league talent as he can and at some point they will come up. But he wants them to force the issue by performance. You can't say Nastrini deserves to be in the rotation already based on performance unless you put a lot of stock in ST results.

Clevinger is just a means to an end. Pay low, buy your young guys time.

Edited April 2 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This team is trash and the entire rotation save maybe one will be replaced in the next season and a half.

And ? I mean that was what Getz seemed to be doing from the onset. Call it what you will , the Bannister Plan or whatever. Get innings from Clevinger as a cheap innings eater and make guy in the minors earn their spot in the rotation.

I thought that was what people wanted instead of rushing guys.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Above average. Lol. Let's see how he looks when he actually pitches, shall we?

Without the baggage the guy easily gets offered $10M+ maybe for multiple years.

[Harry Chappas]

This is a cheap move that helps the White Sox manage innings for the young guys.

Everyone in the rotation except for Crochet can throw 90-100 pitches an outing without caring if their arm falls off.  All four guys are pitching for their career. 

This protects the bullpen and younger arms. 

Maybe it results in a guy outperforming their expectations and we learned from Lance Lynn and Giolito last year, only takes one GM to buy into something.

If you are signing him, why not sign Bauer?  The White Sox suffer from a shitty owner in a large market that loses a competitive edge because of extra picks and now draft positions so why not thumb their nose at MLB and sign him. 

 

[southsider2k5]

40 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Without the baggage the guy easily gets offered $10M+ maybe for multiple years.

In this market?  He easily 10Xs his total dollars if teams thought they could trust him.

[A-Train to 35th]

5 hours ago, 4OCS said:

It’s not a matter of opinion. How are the white sox or Clevinger supposed to comment on “mlb mandated therapy” when there was, in fact, no “mlb mandated therapy?” Since, as a matter of fact, Clevinger was not disciplined under MLB domestic policy? Come on, man! And I don’t know wtf you are talking about with the “help with page moderation.” Did I say he isn’t entitled to be wrong or something?

Do yourself a favor and ignore Southsider2k5, you'll thank me later....... believe me.

[A-Train to 35th]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I can't imagine spending this much time defending Clevinger, down to arguing words for technicalities over FaCts.  

Than an easy solution would be to take your own advice.

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, 4OCS said:

Just in case anyone missed what I am referencing here. SSHM was in fact claiming that MLB mandated therapy for Clevinger, which is clearly not the case, since MLB can not mandate therapy or “management of domestic violence proclivities” in a case where the player was found to be not in violation. 

 

4 hours ago, 4OCS said:

 He couldn’t have undergone mandated therapy, since that is part of the disciplinary process, from which he was cleared by MLB. MLB could only trigger the therapy mandate in the case where he was found in violation of the policy, which he was not. All of this is fact, not a matter of opinion.

As a matter of fact, “mlb mandated therapy” is a part of the mlb domestic abuse policy discipline, which again is not a matter of opinion. If compliance is required as a result of a decision, that is discipline by definition. 

Here are the "facts" directly from MLB.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-major-league-baseball-statement-mike-clevinger

3/5/23 MLB accepted Clevinger's voluntary agreement to submit to evaluations by the joint treatment boards under collectively bargained policies, and to comply with any of the board's recommendations. which your "logic" is "discipline by definition".

But of course your interpretation it's not accurate, as players can enter the program either voluntarily, with or without a formal MLB investigation, as a result formal discipline and or via an arbitration decision as defined in the CBA. 

Quote

“As part of his path forward, Mr. Clevinger has voluntarily agreed to submit to evaluations by the joint treatment boards under the collectively bargained policies, and to comply with any of the boards’ recommendations. MLB will continue to make support services available to Mr. Clevinger, his family, and other individuals involved in the investigation."

Let's stick with the actual CBA agreement covering Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Child Abuse, which Clevinger voluntarily agreed to as part of MLB's announcement that it was dropping further investigation, for one, two or all three provisions of the policy.

https://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf

Quote

IV. Treatment and Intervention.

A. Joint Policy Board. The Parties shall establish a treatment board (herein “Joint Policy Board”). The Joint Policy Board shall be responsible for evaluating, and where treatment is appropriate, supervising the treatment of Players who have committed or are alleged to have committed Covered Acts. It may also provide evaluation and treatment to Players who voluntarily request the Board’s assistance.

B. Composition of Joint Policy Board. The Treatment Board shall be composed of two representatives from each of the Parties (“Party Representatives) and three experts in the field of Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and/or Child Abuse who are jointly chosen by the parties (“Expert Representatives”), one of whom shall serve in rotation in each instance where Notification is given by the Commissioner’s Office to the Players Association under Section II.A above. Thus, five members of the Joint Policy Board (four Party representatives and one Expert Representative) shall constitute the Joint Policy Board in each instance where Notification is given. The Expert Representatives shall all serve one-year terms, renewable by agreement of the Parties.

Provisions regarding the treatment plan can be found starting with page 9 of the linked pdf document.

That is all I have to say about this matter or the Chicago White Sox.

While I hope Mike Clevinger has begun making amends in his personal life, including toward his various children and their mothers, this is beyond my ability to stomach as part of "entertainment".

This is strike three on Chris Getz, after hiring Wes Helms and Omar Vizquel, the latter Chris Getz praised as having "positive impact" in the clubhouse. The same clubhouse where Omar Vizquel repeatedly molested an autistic batboy naked in the showers.

None of this is surprising considering Getz was personally mentored by Dayton Moore, who was persistent in trying to sign a pedophile convicted of repeatedly molesting his six year old niece.

https://theathletic.com/409033/2018/06/26/dayton-moore-is-advocating-for-luke-heimlich-but-if-the-royals-eventually-sign-him-it-will-be-ownerships-call/

Quote

The mother of the victim — and Heimlich’s former sister-in-law — still believes that Heimlich molested her daughter.

“Even back then, he said he didn’t do it,” the mother told Sports Illustrated’s S.L. Price. “I understand. I get it. But I heard it come out of her mouth. And I know the way she was raised, and what she was allowed to see. There’s just no doubt in my mind that he did what she said he did.”

Perhaps when all persons primarily responsible for this latest fiasco (Jerry Reinsdorf, Tony La Russa, Chris Getz and Mike Clevinger) are all no longer with the organization, and assuming Chicago Taxpayers aren't screwed a second time with another stadium scheme, and a non Reinsdorf is approved by MLB as the Primary Control Person, I may one day be interested in following the team.

I wish all of you well. Take care.

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Do yourself a favor and ignore Southsider2k5, you'll thank me later....... believe me.

It's really not bad advice, especially if fragile.

[Lip Man 1]

57 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

Here are the "facts" directly from MLB.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-major-league-baseball-statement-mike-clevinger

3/5/23 MLB accepted Clevinger's voluntary agreement to submit to evaluations by the joint treatment boards under collectively bargained policies, and to comply with any of the board's recommendations. which your "logic" is "discipline by definition".

But of course your interpretation it's not accurate, as players can enter the program either voluntarily, with or without a formal MLB investigation, as a result formal discipline and or via an arbitration decision as defined in the CBA. 

Let's stick with the actual CBA agreement covering Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Child Abuse, which Clevinger voluntarily agreed to as part of MLB's announcement that it was dropping further investigation, for one, two or all three provisions of the policy.

https://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf

Provisions regarding the treatment plan can be found starting with page 9 of the linked pdf document.

That is all I have to say about this matter or the Chicago White Sox.

While I hope Mike Clevinger has begun making amends in his personal life, including toward his various children and their mothers, this is beyond my ability to stomach as part of "entertainment".

This is strike three on Chris Getz, after hiring Wes Helms and Omar Vizquel, the latter Chris Getz praised as having "positive impact" in the clubhouse. The same clubhouse where Omar Vizquel repeatedly molested an autistic batboy naked in the showers.

None of this is surprising considering Getz was personally mentored by Dayton Moore, who was persistent in trying to sign a pedophile convicted of repeatedly molesting his six year old niece.

https://theathletic.com/409033/2018/06/26/dayton-moore-is-advocating-for-luke-heimlich-but-if-the-royals-eventually-sign-him-it-will-be-ownerships-call/

Perhaps when all persons primarily responsible for this latest fiasco (Jerry Reinsdorf, Tony La Russa, Chris Getz and Mike Clevinger) are all no longer with the organization, and assuming Chicago Taxpayers aren't screwed a second time with another stadium scheme, and a non Reinsdorf is approved by MLB as the Primary Control Person, I may one day be interested in following the team.

I wish all of you well. Take care.

As Sam Malone said to Diana Chambers on Cheers, "Have a good life..."

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As Sam Malone said to Diana Chambers on Cheers, "Have a good life..."

More worried about how guys like him and Jay Cuda will/would possibly survive without the  White Sox trainwreck to assess and poke fun at.

[Lip Man 1]

35 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

More worried about how guys like him and Jay Cuda will/would possibly survive without the  White Sox trainwreck to assess and poke fun at.

Well I can't blame them for that option, all of us are doing it (and rightfully so)

[Kyyle23]

Something tells me that Cuda could do that sort of thing with whatever his intended target is

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Edit

Edited April 3 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 4/2/2024 at 1:47 PM, southsider2k5 said:

In this market?  He easily 10Xs his total dollars if teams thought they could trust him.

Hard to guage the market. My guesstimate was meant to be conservative.

Snell and other good pitchers weren't close to getting the HUGE contracts. Lorenzen got peanuts. Cleavingers comes in somewhere between Lorenzen and Flaherty if he didn't have the baggage.

[WhiteSox2023]

For the Clevinger haters, there was another option in free agency, albeit not as good as Clevinger.

 

Edited April 4 by WhiteSox2023

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Has this been finalized yet? What’s the holdup? Sox are going to need a 5th starter soon you’d think lol

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Has this been finalized yet? What’s the holdup? Sox are going to need a 5th starter soon you’d think lol

Maybe he has to wait a bit before he takes the drug test. Might have ate a poppyseed muffin.

[Quin]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Maybe he has to wait a bit before he takes the drug test. Might have ate a poppyseed muffin.

When I was like, 5-years-old, I loved poppyseed muffins.

Then my mom was like "watch out in case you get drug tested."

It's only been the last few years that I've begun enjoying them again.

[ChiSox59]

18 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Has this been finalized yet? What’s the holdup? Sox are going to need a 5th starter soon you’d think lol

Pending a physical.  You'd certainly think they'd want to get that done ASAP, but also will have to make 40 man space so Sox are probably OK slow rolling it for now. 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

When I was like, 5-years-old, I loved poppyseed muffins.

Then my mom was like "watch out in case you get drug tested."

It's only been the last few years that I've begun enjoying them again.

It was a Seinfeld episode, but many years ago the company I worked for went bankrupt, and I got a new job. I had to take a drug test, but it was, whenever. I wanted to take it right away and get it over with but my wife told me she gave me a poppyseed bagel and I would flunk it. I looked it up on line, and apparently it's true. Doesn't last in your system as long as the real thing, but if your timing is off, you fail.