Under what scenario would you consider offering Crochet and/or Kopech extensions?

[46DidIt]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

That's what I was thinking about Cease. Sox would have 2 good starters which is a start. Now we just got one and we suck. The Cease trade was a joke. Didn't the Sox get one decent outfield prospect in that one?

Zavala and Iriarte are both excellent high ceiling prospects. Thorpe is more of a high floor. The more I looked into that trade the more I liked it. I’d be willing to bet Zavala and Iriarte are at least top 75 mlb prospects within two years. Iriarte is straight up filthy and Zavala showed very advanced plate skills at only 18 years old. This guy could be in MLB by 21

Edited April 3 by 4OCS

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think it would take considerably more than that.

Define considerable. You don’t think close to $20M to buy out this year and next two arb years plus two years of FA is close? Crochet would guarantee financial security for life (which I would think is a priority for someone like him given his injury history) and if he’s still healthy and performing well thru that extension he’s just 29 years old when he hits the open market.

[WestEddy]

9 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

“Honestly imagine if we had kept Cease…”

No, I won’t imagine because it was never going to happen with this ownership.  Everyone and their grandma knew Cease was gone.

It would have happened if the team didn't crash and burn. They extended Lynn. Giolito was hell-bent on testing free agency. 

Right now, they're in rebuild mode. Every name that comes up on the roster, people start chanting "flip him", and that's not realistic. They need players to play the actual games. People were talking about "flipping" Steven Wilson, and he has 4 years of control. 

If Anderson, Lynn and Grandal continued being productive baseball players the team might have been competitive, and they would have retained Lynn, Giolito, and the bullpen guys through the end of the season. They didn't suck because Reinsdorf sent down a memo. Hahn/KW never filled the gaping holes in RF and 2B. Money? Clubhouse culture? Non-resourceful GM? All of it? 

I'm not defending anybody, it's just that the simplistic "Jerry Reinsdorf ruined life for everybody" refrain doesn't really explain mob-think that goes on. 

We're all complaining that we're not acquiring difference makers in trade. Garret Crochet appears to be a difference-maker. Maybe he's finally being handled correctly, and can stay healthy. There's your ace, going forward, that you can build a rotation around. 

[WestEddy]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you’re talking about a seven year extension?

Yeah, why not? 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Define considerable. You don’t think close to $20M to buy out this year and next two arb years plus two years of FA is close? Crochet would guarantee financial security for life (which I would think is a priority for someone like him given his injury history) and if he’s still healthy and performing well thru that extension he’s just 29 years old when he hits the open market.

When they just gave an “outsider” in Fedde nearly half that amount for two years?

If the Rockies can give Tovar as much as $84 million…heck, didn’t even Myles Straw get more than that way back when?

 

[TitoMB345]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

...surprisingly good eye and strong OBP...

Plenty of time for our guys to fix that

[WhiteSox2023]

34 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yeah, why not? 

Jerry, that’s why.  He’ll never give out that kind of years to anyone.  Unless you are expecting his untimely demise relatively soon.

Edited April 3 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

27 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Jerry, that’s why.  He’ll never give out that kind of years to anyone.  Unless you are expecting his untimely demise relatively soon.

Well, maybe not that long, but I'd be surprised if Getz and the new KC contracts guy weren't hammering out the framework of a Crochet extension they'd pursue if Crochet got to the end of the season without incident. 

Chris Sale and Jose Quintana both got 5 year extensions. 

[WestEddy]

31 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Jerry, that’s why.  He’ll never give out that kind of years to anyone.  Unless you are expecting his untimely demise relatively soon.

And seriously, Robert's extension makes him practically untradeable right now, it's so valuable. If he's finally healthy for the first time in his pro career, Crochet locked up for 4 years is extremely valuable. He could probably even be had for a number that would work if he had to go back to the bullpen. 

[vilehoopster]

12 hours ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

This right here. This fanbase has such ptsd that the moment a player like Crochet actually becomes successful and lives up to his potential the immediate thought is "gotta trade him." It's gross and a never ending cycle of crap. I know the constraints of this organization but just stop. Let's hold onto our nice toys sometimes. 

Honestly imagine if we had kept Cease, and he and Crochet had great seasons. This team might have generated a little excitement. 

I agree. We can't just keep trading every good player for prospects. I like the quote, "Let's hold on to our nice toys."

There has been countless posts on here about, "I hope this player or that player or both of those players are a having good/ great season so we can flip him. "

Unless a player is free agent at the end of the year, let's keep our good players and try to add more good players next year, so that with emerging prospects the Sox might actually have a competative team next year. 

It strikes me as silly that the same people who are complaining that the Sox won't be any good until 2028 or so, are the same guys saying, "I hope he has a good half of a season we can flip him."

Sorry this is bold; I typed it on google docs first and can't get rid of bold. 

[Lip Man 1]

25 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I agree. We can't just keep trading every good player for prospects. I like the quote, "Let's hold on to our nice toys."

There has been countless posts on here about, "I hope this player or that player or both of those players are a having good/ great season so we can flip him. "

Unless a player is free agent at the end of the year, let's keep our good players and try to add more good players next year, so that with emerging prospects the Sox might actually have a competative team next year. 

It strikes me as silly that the same people who are complaining that the Sox won't be any good until 2028 or so, are the same guys saying, "I hope he has a good half of a season we can flip him."

Sorry this is bold; I typed it on google docs first and can't get rid of bold. 

In a functional, competent well run organization I'd agree with you 100%. Unfortunately these are the White Sox who like my Dad used to say, "Would screw up a two car funeral..."

Maybe see if Crochet can pitch well for two years and then see if he'd be open to an extension but remember what has happened to Jimenez and Moncada after they got those big extensions to buy out some arbitration years. That hasn't worked out well.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Crochet is a guy you keep.  Yes, the injury bug has gotten him.  But this is a guy who came up in 2020 with just a few IP in the minors and made ML hitters look silly.  He looks composed and dominant now that he's back healthy. He's worth the investment, imo.  

Kopech?  Along with Eloy, the MOST disappointing of our rebuild hauls, imo.  Incredibly gifted arm who pitches well when he's in the right headspace.  Unfortunately, we're learning that, more often than not, he's in the wrong headspace.  He's aware of it, too, and has taken measures to better prepare himself mentally.  No dice...he just can't get out of his own head.  He should be dealt the moment we can get something for him.

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

In a functional, competent well run organization I'd agree with you 100%. Unfortunately these are the White Sox who like my Dad used to say, "Would screw up a two car funeral..."

Maybe see if Crochet can pitch well for two years and then see if he'd be open to an extension but remember what has happened to Jimenez and Moncada after they got those big extensions to buy out some arbitration years. That hasn't worked out well.

Were the Sox magically functional when they wrapped up Eaton, Sale and Quintana? Jimenez and Moncada are injury machines. Yoan is amazing when well. Somebody here said in the last few days that Eloy is just a different player than he was his first year. He doesn't have that power anymore. I don't know if it's injuries, age, or mechanics. 

Eloy's contract will work out well if they don't pick up his options. Same with Yoan. 

I'd like to see the Sox buy out the last one or two years of arbitration, and grab a couple FA years, maybe tack on a couple of options. If this is a healthy Crochet, and he works his way up to 180 innings a year? That's one of the best dozen pitchers in the game. 

[Nardiwashere]

I'd love for them to extend Crochet.  I'd also like to see a guy like Soroka get an extension if he pitches well.  In the future, your rotation could be Crochet, Fedde, Soroka, and whoever is good out of Nastrini, Eder, Thorpe, Cannon, Bush, Iriarte, and eventually Schultz.  

At some point, you're going to have to lock guys in for 2025-26 and beyond.

If there's a market, the guys I'd trade are Kopech, Clevinger, any reliever not named Jordan Leasure, Eloy, Moncada, Benitendi, Vaughn.

 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

I'd love for them to extend Crochet.  I'd also like to see a guy like Soroka get an extension if he pitches well.  In the future, your rotation could be Crochet, Fedde, Soroka, and whoever is good out of Nastrini, Eder, Thorpe, Cannon, Bush, Iriarte, and eventually Schultz.  

At some point, you're going to have to lock guys in for 2025-26 and beyond.

If there's a market, the guys I'd trade are Kopech, Clevinger, any reliever not named Jordan Leasure, Eloy, Moncada, Benitendi, Vaughn.

 

How much cash are you willing to eat to move Benintendi?

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

It would have happened if the team didn't crash and burn. They extended Lynn. Giolito was hell-bent on testing free agency. 

What makes you think Cease wouldn't also be hell-bent on testing free agency? He is a Boras client after all.

[WestEddy]

19 minutes ago, Snopek said:

What makes you think Cease wouldn't also be hell-bent on testing free agency? He is a Boras client after all.

My reaction was about keeping Cease for the length of his control, not signing an extension. If this team was still in their contention window, Cease would be a White Sox right now. I also mentioned that we would have kept Giolito and Lynn to the end of last year. 

[Nardiwashere]

23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

How much cash are you willing to eat to move Benintendi?

I guess it depends on how good he is and what type of returns are possible. 

Obviously, I'd take very little back in terms of players if it meant we could clear most of his $ and roster spot.  He doesn't really line up with the new window.  

If we are getting an actual prospect, I'd be ok with eating a decent amount too.  

[greg775]

4 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Right now, they're in rebuild mode. Every name that comes up on the roster, people start chanting "flip him", and that's not realistic. They need players to play the actual games. There's your ace, going forward, that you can build a rotation around. 

Amen. There has to be some sort of plan. I still think many of our fans like tank mode for some odd reason. I guess the names we acquire and drop into rookie ball or A ball are the grand, mysterious players who some day will turn our team into a winner in the short window they have before free agency. That didn't work so well last time. I wish we had a new owner and GM who knew what the frick they were doing besides saving money during tank jobs.

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Amen. There has to be some sort of plan. I still think many of our fans like tank mode for some odd reason. I guess the names we acquire and drop into rookie ball or A ball are the grand, mysterious players who some day will turn our team into a winner in the short window they have before free agency. That didn't work so well last time. I wish we had a new owner and GM who knew what the frick they were doing besides saving money during tank jobs.

There's a bit of an echo chamber here, where a small group of irate people have created the reality of a team that will struggle to win 30 games a season for the next 7 years. That's ridiculous. 

Seeing Garret Crochet carve up the Braves and go 7 with no issues really opens up a lot of possibilities. You're going to hit this next off-season with probably 4 spots nailed down, and rookies moving Moncada, DeJong, and whatever catcher is left out of the way. 

What didn't work so well last time was a two-headed monster running the club with different priorities that neglected drafting, international signings and development. Hahn basically acquired 5 starters, drafted 2 more, and he was done with rotational depth. And then they never had final answers for 2B, RF or DH. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

When they just gave an “outsider” in Fedde nearly half that amount for two years?

If the Rockies can give Tovar as much as $84 million…heck, didn’t even Myles Straw get more than that way back when?

 

And Mike Clevinger only got $3M guaranteed so what’s your point?

[Chick Mercedes]

How about the Sox stop trying to get bargain contracts, and pay these guys when they prove something first? The idea hasn’t exactly worked. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

7 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

How about the Sox stop trying to get bargain contracts, and pay these guys when they prove something first? The idea hasn’t exactly worked. 

Well, that hasn’t exactly worked either - see Benintendi, Keuchel, Grandal, etc.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And Mike Clevinger only got $3M guaranteed so what’s your point?

Every GM/team in baseball would want Crochet on their team…potential-wise.

Only one franchise out of 30 could even tolerate Clevinger on their roster.

Edited April 3 by caulfield12

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Every GM/team in baseball would want Crochet on their team…potential-wise.

Only one franchise out of 30 could even tolerate Clevinger on their roster.

Lorenzen got $4.5M guaranteed. Both he and Clevinger have proved more in mlb than  Crochet. The reality is crochet is another TJS away from not getting a meaningful FA contract after his arb years. Even giving him $20M guaranteed is risky at this point until he proves he can stay healthy and pitch more than 50 innings in a season. I agree he has a ton of potential but so did Michael Kopech and Eloy Jimenez.