caulfield12 Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 (edited) 11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Lorenzen got $4.5M guaranteed. Both he and Clevinger have proved more in mlb than Crochet. The reality is crochet is another TJS away from not getting a meaningful FA contract after his arb years. Even giving him $20M guaranteed is risky at this point until he proves he can stay healthy and pitch more than 50 innings in a season. I agree he has a ton of potential but so did Michael Kopech and Eloy Jimenez. That’s why my original post posited at least 2-3 months as a starter. Some want one full year…others, waiting until the end of 2025 when it will inevitably be too late. Timing is everything with this one. Who else on the current roster has that potential to be a star…other than Robert, Jr.? Basically there’s no one, unless you’re still willing to hold on to the original Kopech hype from 2016-17. Edited April 3 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 You deal everyone who looks worth a cent, including Luis Robert. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 10 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said: You deal everyone who looks worth a cent, including Luis Robert. No thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 4OCS said: No thanks https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-power-rankings-dodgers-and-braves-looking-as-dominant-as-expected-so-far-this-season-182620021.html #30 Crochet mentioned as the primary reason to be excited about this team. 30. Chicago White Sox, 0-4 "No need to pile on the team ranked last, especially when being bad is essentially the plan as Chicago bottoms out and tries to rebuild in full. On a positive note, Garrett Crochet looked marvelous on Opening Day and could give Sox fans something to look forward to every five days or so. Otherwise? It’s going to be a long season on the South Side." Edited April 3 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-power-rankings-dodgers-and-braves-looking-as-dominant-as-expected-so-far-this-season-182620021.html #30 Crochet mentioned as the primary reason to be excited about this team. I was specifically referring to Robert, I probably should have been more clear. I’m cool with trading anyone besides him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Picture this if you will… in another universe… the Chicago White Sox have leadership, vision, talent, and hope. They spend on marquee free agents and are always a playoff bound team with World Series aspirations. In this universe is where you will find your extensions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 13 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Lorenzen got $4.5M guaranteed. Both he and Clevinger have proved more in mlb than Crochet. The reality is crochet is another TJS away from not getting a meaningful FA contract after his arb years. Even giving him $20M guaranteed is risky at this point until he proves he can stay healthy and pitch more than 50 innings in a season. I agree he has a ton of potential but so did Michael Kopech and Eloy Jimenez. The only way teams like the sox can lock up guys like crochet is to get him locked up early and take some of that risk.. Clevinger and Lorenzen are in no way worth more than crochet. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 Once you clear Crochet and Montgomery…there’s not even really any obvious candidates that you would confidently place on a 2025-27 Sox team and consider for early extensions. Schultz, at some point. If he can maintain his health and continue upping his innings. There’s just no way you can justify Vaughn at this point. And that’s pretty much it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) 14 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Lorenzen got $4.5M guaranteed. Both he and Clevinger have proved more in mlb than Crochet. The reality is crochet is another TJS away from not getting a meaningful FA contract after his arb years. Even giving him $20M guaranteed is risky at this point until he proves he can stay healthy and pitch more than 50 innings in a season. I agree he has a ton of potential but so did Michael Kopech and Eloy Jimenez. Lorenzen and Clevinger are #4 starters in their early 30’s making their final laps before retirement. You can’t really compare these guys to a 24 year old lefty with no miles on his arm who may be showing ace or at least #2 potential. Also, teams still give pitchers with past surgeries big money all the time. He won’t be cheap if he stays healthy and keeps it up to attempt to extend or sign when he becomes a free agent. But perhaps due to his injury troubles, he would be willing to sign an extension to set himself up for life. I doubt this would be a strategy JR would allow Getz to employ unless it was a big hometown discount. Edited April 4 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 (edited) 9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Lorenzen and Clevinger are #4 starters in their early 30’s making their final laps before retirement. You can’t really compare these guys to a 24 year old lefty with no miles on his arm who may be showing ace or at least #2 potential and teams still give pitchers with past surgeries big money all the time. He won’t be cheap if he stays healthy and keeps it up, to attempt to extend of sign when he becomes a free agent. But perhaps due to his injury troubles, he would be willing to sign an extension to set him up for life. I doubt this would be a strategy JR would allow Getz to employ unless it was a big hometown discount. Cole Ragans, for example, has had multiple TJS surgeries by age 26 and yet is now being considered a legit Cy Young contender. Missed all of 2018/19/20 after being drafted 1/30 in 2016, $2 million bonus. 2016-17 65 IP combined Injured 2021 81 ip 2022 135 ip 40 with Texas 2023 124 ip White Sox: Garrett Crochet is a starter “It’s a little early to use the “ace” word, but the southpaw has been truly impressive in his move from the bullpen to the rotation. This change first began as an offseason conversation between Crochet and general manager Chris Getz, with Crochet set on being a featured starter and not just a guy to take the ball for three or four innings. Mission accomplished against the Tigers and the high-powered Braves, with Crochet striking out 16 against one walk with two earned runs allowed over 13 innings. His fastball is topping out near 100 mph, while he’s incorporated a cutter to produce a four-pitch repertoire. Innings eventually could be a concern, but there’s no issue with his elite talent level.” -- Scott Merkin/mlb.com Edited April 4 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I doubt this would be a strategy JR would allow Getz to employ unless it was a big hometown discount. Why do people keep saying this? Sale and Quintana were signed to 5 year extensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 21 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Why do people keep saying this? Sale and Quintana were signed to 5 year extensions. I did mention a hometown discount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I did mention a hometown discount. Just because a contract looks good for a team a couple years after it is signed, doesn't mean it was a hometown discount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 6 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Just because a contract looks good for a team a couple years after it is signed, doesn't mean it was a hometown discount. The implied savings are in exchange for the risk the team takes. Not as much a "hometown discount" as paying down some of the risk. Crochet has much more value as a starter, for the Sox and Crochet. The Sox are taking a risk in stretching him out, but that will pay dividends for everybody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 18 hours ago, nitetrain8601 said: You deal everyone who looks worth a cent, including Luis Robert. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 42 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Why do people keep saying this? Sale and Quintana were signed to 5 year extensions. Sale's was a 7 year one. It was 4 years with 3 team options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 On 4/3/2024 at 5:42 PM, 4OCS said: I was specifically referring to Robert, I probably should have been more clear. I’m cool with trading anyone besides him Do you project this team needing 4 years or less to compete? Because if you don't, you're not doing yourself any favors by not trading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 On 4/4/2024 at 7:14 AM, caulfield12 said: Once you clear Crochet and Montgomery…there’s not even really any obvious candidates that you would confidently place on a 2025-27 Sox team and consider for early extensions. Schultz, at some point. If he can maintain his health and continue upping his innings. There’s just no way you can justify Vaughn at this point. And that’s pretty much it. Vaughn is a non-tender candidate, let's be real. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) If the Sox do put Crochet on the trading block in June/July, what type of return are they realistically looking at if he maintains his current production? Something slightly less than what Cease returned? He currently has top 15 AL cy young odds per draftkings and has been rising very fast. Edited April 8 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 (edited) 45 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: If the Sox do put Crochet on the trading block in June/July, what type of return are they realistically looking at if he maintains his current production? Something slightly less than what Cease returned? He currently has top 15 AL cy young odds per draftkings and has been rising very fast. If they do trade him, they’re going to chop off another 10-15% of Sox fans…and turned them to checked out, many permanently (or, at the very least, until the team is sold or a new stadium and firm construction dates are set in stone.) Selling nothing but vague hopes for the future won’t work after having fooled the fans once already…without anything left to show for it. Waiting for another top 1-3 draft pick they MIGHT blow yet again isn’t enough to sustain interest either. Edited April 8 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: If they do trade him, they’re going to chop off another 10-15% of Sox fans…and turned them to checked out, many permanently (or, at the very least, until the team is sold or a new stadium and firm construction dates are set in stone.) Selling nothing but vague hopes for the future won’t work after having fooled the fans once already…without anything left to show for it. Waiting for another top 1-3 draft pick they MIGHT blow yet again isn’t enough to sustain interest either. I disagree. Sox fans turn out when the team is winning and don’t show when the team is losing. Keeping Crochet on a 110 loss team isn’t going to change a thing. This should be a complete non-factor in the decision to trade him or not this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: If the Sox do put Crochet on the trading block in June/July, what type of return are they realistically looking at if he maintains his current production? Something slightly less than what Cease returned? He currently has top 15 AL cy young odds per draftkings and has been rising very fast. I would think that anyone acquiring Crochet would have to factor in a probable innings limit. They wouldn't bring him in for the pennant push, unless they were going to throw him in their bullpen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 If I was GM, I'd have a very hard time every giving guaranteed money to a pitcher when I don't have to. Lots of discourse lately about pitcher health, but nobody knows what to do or even how to predict which pitchers will be the healthy exceptions. It's hard enough to project future performance in baseball when assuming good health...for pitchers you simply can't assume reasonably good health. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: I would think that anyone acquiring Crochet would have to factor in a probable innings limit. They wouldn't bring him in for the pennant push, unless they were going to throw him in their bullpen. Worst case scenario for the rest of this year, wouldn’t a dominant postseason reliever with the ability to throw multiple innings be a huge asset even for a contender this season still? And then of course he’s under super cheap control for two more seasons after this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Worst case scenario for the rest of this year, wouldn’t a dominant postseason reliever with the ability to throw multiple innings be a huge asset even for a contender this season still? And then of course he’s under super cheap control for two more seasons after this year. Sure. I just don't know how teams would treat that. They certainly don't want to trade a couple prospects for a dude, and have him break down 3 weeks later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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