Under what scenario would you consider offering Crochet and/or Kopech extensions?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Sure. I just don't know how teams would treat that. They certainly don't want to trade a couple prospects for a dude, and have him break down 3 weeks later. 

That’s why I am curious to hear what others think of his value because there is no real example to follow in a trade like this. Very unique. The team acquiring him is getting a dominant lefty reliever for the rest of this season if they impose an innings limit and then a very cheap potential ace for two more seasons. Seems like that should be worth a lot but I’m not sure given his volatile history to this point.

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That’s why I am curious to hear what others think of his value because there is no real example to follow in a trade like this. Very unique. The team acquiring him is getting a dominant lefty reliever for the rest of this season if they impose an innings limit and then a very cheap potential ace for two more seasons. Seems like that should be worth a lot but I’m not sure given his volatile history to this point.

I wonder if teams would be hesitant to move him back to a relief role and risk messing with his development as a starter, thus making him more of an investment for the following years. Which does not provide any further clarity on what his trade value might be lol.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That’s why I am curious to hear what others think of his value because there is no real example to follow in a trade like this. Very unique. The team acquiring him is getting a dominant lefty reliever for the rest of this season if they impose an innings limit and then a very cheap potential ace for two more seasons. Seems like that should be worth a lot but I’m not sure given his volatile history to this point.

If the game he threw against Atlanta is what a healthy, built-up Crocket can do regularly, I don't think teams would/can pay what he's worth, and I don't think Getz would sell low on the injury risk. That's better than Cease's ceiling, in my opinion. Cease is more durable, but Crochet has a dominance I never felt with Cease. 

[caulfield12]

It's now a thing.

Although Kopech if he keeps this up isn't going to be tricked into signing too friendly of an extension...which would basically just serve to set up a trade.

Nor should he...if he really believes in himself.

[WhiteSox2023]

On 4/8/2024 at 1:43 PM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That’s why I am curious to hear what others think of his value because there is no real example to follow in a trade like this. Very unique. The team acquiring him is getting a dominant lefty reliever for the rest of this season if they impose an innings limit and then a very cheap potential ace for two more seasons. Seems like that should be worth a lot but I’m not sure given his volatile history to this point.

There’s also the possibility that Getz will keep Crochet for his performance and cost.  There’s a big difference between dealing Cease with two years of control left and Crochet this year.  Cease is making $8 million this season while Crochet is making only $800K.

I have no doubt that part of the reason Cease was dealt was so Reinsdorf could save $8 million in payroll this year and around $12 million next year for what Cease would sign via arbitration.

Crochet is earning a paltry $800K and even if he pitches lights out for around 100 innings this seasons, he will still be very cheap next season.

I’d wager that Kopech is more likely to be dealt than Crochet.

[caulfield12]

"One pitcher to keep a close eye on this year is the White Sox’s Garrett Crochet. A No. 1 draft choice out of Tennessee in 2020, Crochet was called up to the majors as a reliever Sept. 18 that year and from there to the end of the season he threw the second-most 100-mph pitches (45 out of a total of 85 or 52.9%) in the majors. A year later, in April 2022, he underwent Tommy John surgery. This season the White Sox made him a starter where he’s so far been close to unhittable — but heading into the weekend, he hadn’t thrown a single 100-mph pitch and his average four-seam fastball has been 94 mph. It would seem he’s learned from the Tommy John surgery the necessity of being a pitcher and not just a thrower."

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bill-madden-baseball-obsession-velocity-093000833.html

Edited April 15 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Bump.

[southsider2k5]

Buying stocks at 52 week highs after long slumps is a sound strategy.   I just can't see the downside to extending perpetually injured pitchers who happen to be doing OK right now.  

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Buying stocks at 52 week highs after long slumps is a sound strategy.   I just can't see the downside to extending perpetually injured pitchers who happen to be doing OK right now.  

Then you're never going to have an ace in that starting rotation.

"Doing okay" like Nvidia was just a decent return?

Besides, Reinsdorf will never buy or extend anyone on the pitching side now.

Schultz seemingly is the only one with that upside...if his health holds up.

Edited May 11 by caulfield12

[greg775]

No hurry. Just play them and pay them whatever they get before free agency and enjoy them. For gawd sakes folks we don't need to sign everybody who is hot and we don't need to trade young prospects. Enjoy and build baby, build!!

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Then you're never going to have an ace in that starting rotation.

"Doing okay" like Nvidia was just a decent return?

Besides, Reinsdorf will never buy or extend anyone on the pitching side now.

Schultz seemingly is the only one with that upside...if his health holds up.

I am OK with not sliding nine figures to Garrett Crochet.  With as often as his arms falls off, it seems obvious to me, but you do you.  Kopech I won't even dignify.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am OK with not sliding nine figures to Garrett Crochet.  With as often as his arms falls off, it seems obvious to me, but you do you.  Kopech I won't even dignify.

Obviously there's a conpromise number between $50-75 million.

JR wouldn't sign off on it anyway.

And the reasons JR will authorize that much money to B-Tier Benintendi while ignoring his 2019-2021 trendline is why they're in this situation on the first place.

 

At any rate, the White Sox are now officially the feeder team for MLB.

They have Robert (maybe), Montgomery (maybe) and who else to sell fans in terms of hope for the future?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Obviously there's a conpromise number between $50-75 million.

JR wouldn't sign off on it anyway.

And the reasons JR will authorize that much money to B-Tier Benintendi while ignoring his 2019-2021 trendline is why they're in this situation on the first place.

 

At any rate, the White Sox are now officially the feeder team for MLB.

They have Robert (maybe), Montgomery (maybe) and who else to sell fans in terms of hope for the future?

Then you are pissing away money on an injury red flag to pitch the next 3 or 4 years when the team will suck anyway.

[GreenSox]

If he has some effing innings count, then just pitch him until he reaches it and sits him. Maybe use a 6 man rotation to keep him active for longer.

But no bullpen. 

Yea, he's been injured, but the prior GM was woefully inept in handling him.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then you are pissing away money on an injury red flag to pitch the next 3 or 4 years when the team will suck anyway.

Yep, no way you can do that.  The damage was already done with Crochet between the mismanagement of his role, his own injuries, and lack of many years of control left as a result of the former.  Your best bet is selling him high in the offseason, if he puts up a nice year.

Edited May 11 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

33 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yep, no way you can do that.  The damage was already done with Crochet between the mismanagement of his role, his own injuries, and lack of many years of control left as a result of the former.  Your best bet is selling him high in the offseason, if he puts up a nice year.

Then explain Cole Ragans after two TJ surgeries…you have to get what you can out of high-risk players when there’s a window of opportunity, just like there is in the AL Central right now for the Royals.

Look where KC was a year ago, even worse than the White Sox record-wise.

 

And the same arguments against extending him are going to limit his ultimate trade return…teams that can afford to take on risk over the long term can just wait until Getz blinks.

Just seems so demoralizing to keep trading away success stories with zero promise of anything in return.

Edited May 11 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

36 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yep, no way you can do that.  The damage was already done with Crochet between the mismanagement of his role, his own injuries, and lack of many years of control left as a result of the former.  Your best bet is selling him high in the offseason, if he puts up a nice year.

And what are the White Sox going to do if Schultz gets hurt?

Push back the rebuild until 2027? 28?

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And what are the White Sox going to do if Schultz gets hurt?

Push back the rebuild until 2027? 28?

Let me let you in on a little secret...Crochet doesn't change that.

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then you are pissing away money on an injury red flag to pitch the next 3 or 4 years when the team will suck anyway.

Quote

Yep, no way you can do that.  The damage was already done with Crochet between the mismanagement of his role, his own injuries, and lack of many years of control left as a result of the former.  Your best bet is selling him high in the offseason, if he puts up a nice year.

This feels like a Russian disinformation hack. Maybe a Cleveland/Minnesota/Detroit/KC disinformation hack. 

I think, right now, you can buy out 2 arbitration years, and 2 years of free agency. Maybe an option year. There's a lot of good will by giving the guy what he wants in starting. He's so young that he'll have an entire career after that contract if he stays any semblance of healthy. 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

This feels like a Russian disinformation hack. Maybe a Cleveland/Minnesota/Detroit/KC disinformation hack. 

I think, right now, you can buy out 2 arbitration years, and 2 years of free agency. Maybe an option year. There's a lot of good will by giving the guy what he wants in starting. He's so young that he'll have an entire career after that contract if he stays any semblance of healthy. 

 

 

This was a great Caulfield imitation,  bravo.

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This was a great Caulfield imitation,  bravo.

Before we get started, can somebody explain this "injury history" Crochet has weathered? Practically everybody in the game is had TJS. Y'all act like the dude's some unique porcelain doll, or something.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

Before we get started, can somebody explain this "injury history" Crochet has weathered? Practically everybody in the game is had TJS. Y'all act like the dude's some unique porcelain doll, or something.

For a guy who likes his facts so much, you seem to not know many about Crochet.  

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This was a great Caulfield imitation,  bravo.

Of course all those AL Central teams would love to take Crochet off the Sox hands...at a 50% discount to boot.

Everyone in baseball knows the White Sox are scared to death of taking a risk.

They're never going to be out there with a pitcher like Brandon Woodruff, betting on their own player.

It's always going to be Jeremy Haber's little calculator spitting out an adverse number.

 

The White Sox can look across the landscape of baseball and watch Rodon, Lopez, Sale, Cease...yet still smile about not making an attempt to keep Gio, not keeping Anderson, not keeping Abreu.  Look at us! We avoided another John Danks!

They keep attempting to win the fiscal responsibility championship.

Yay.

Except they still are getting out-executed by the Guardians, Twins, Royals and even Tigers.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Of course all those AL Central teams would love to take Crochet off the Sox hands...at a 50% discount to boot.

Everyone in baseball knows the White Sox are scared to death of taking a risk.

They're never going to be out there with a pitcher like Brandon Woodruff, betting on their own player.

It's always going to be Jeremy Haber's little calculator spitting out an adverse number.

 

The White Sox can look across the landscape of baseball and watch Rodon, Lopez, Sale, Cease...yet still smile about not making an attempt to keep Gio, not keeping Anderson, not keeping Abreu.  Look at us! We avoided another John Danks!

They keep attempting to win the fiscal responsibility championship.

Yay.

Except they still are getting out-executed by the Guardians, Twins, Royals and even Tigers.

11.  Nice work.

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For a guy who likes his facts so much, you seem to not know many about Crochet.  

Dude seemed to pitch a full reliever's role in 2021. Had TJS in 2022. Inflammation when returning from TJS in 2023. Not quite Eloy Jimenez.  For somebody who loves typing that sentence so much, you don't seem to have much to expand on.