Tomtom Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 In a debacle such as the 2024 White Sox, one can always point out to that specific moment where it all started to go to sh$$#$%t. A case in point - The NBA's Detroit Pistons - The draft where they passed up on both Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wade to Draft that European monster, Darko Milicek. They haven't been relevent since! For the Sox, I go back to when their glorious owner insisted bringing Tony LaRussa out of retirement - or a nursing home - to manage the Sox. At the same time A.J Hinch was sitting out their looking for a managerial job, and I , for one was screaming for the Sox to hire him. They did not - and now look at what Hinch is doing in Detroit. Of course, it does take more than a manager. It takes a knowlegeable GM and an owner willing to open his wallet. This off season the Tigers went out and brought in some proven Major league talent in Mark Cahna, Gia Urshela and Jack Flaherty....while the Sox bring in the likes o Nicky Lopez, Braden Shewmake (who???) and Dominick Fletcher (who???). Others were out there: Soler, Hernandez, Renfroe, Merrifield, Gurriel, Chapman, JD Martinez - just to name a few. And there were pitchers available as well, but the braintrust - and I use the word brain here modestly - chose to go with the likes of Deivi Garcia, Dominick Leone, Brian Shaw, Tim Hill (who???)...Someone explain to Reinsdorf that in today's world of MLB, and sports in general, you have to spend money to win....and even if you are good at identifying young talent, as soon as they make it big you have to SPEND MONEY to keep those players. Jerry: do you really want a fan base who is simply waiting for your time to come? Sell now to someone who cares. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 The only free agents who would sign here are the players on the tail end of their career and have no other place to go. This is a team full of nomads just glad to have a job because no one else would sign them. This team, this organization is garbage and no one wants to come here. Why would a highly sought after free agent want to commit to a team with an owner who’s never signed a contract over $100 million? Even if he signed one, would he sign another if that is what is needed to win? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I think its two things. 1. Hiring Tony LaRussa to manage to club when it was time to take the next step in the rebuild. 2. Missing out on Zach Wheeler and failing to even get serious with Bryce Harper or Manny Machado. Zach Wheeler has been great, Harper has won an MVP and put up 18.7 bWAR over this timreframe and Machado has put up 20.3 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 29 minutes ago, T R U said: I think its two things. 1. Hiring Tony LaRussa to manage to club when it was time to take the next step in the rebuild. 2. Missing out on Zach Wheeler and failing to even get serious with Bryce Harper or Manny Machado. Zach Wheeler has been great, Harper has won an MVP and put up 18.7 bWAR over this timreframe and Machado has put up 20.3 There's a reason those guys didn't come here. They saw the writing on the wall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 11 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said: There's a reason those guys didn't come here. They saw the writing on the wall. Wheeler didn't come here because his wife preferred Philly. Machado and Harper didn't come here because we gave Machado a mickey mouse offer disguised as a competitive offer and I don't even think they offered Harper. They could have absolutely gotten one of Harper or Machado if they were serious. 5 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Also when they removed the Goose from the RF concourse 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) You knew it was doomed when they wouldn't add any star power to obvious holes and with a cheap, young core. Just went all in on the guys here. Their payroll was so low in 2019 and with limited markets for the two big fish, they should have whipped their balls out on the table and signed both. Edited April 26 by Bob Sacamano 1 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtom Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, chetkincaid said: The only free agents who would sign here are the players on the tail end of their career and have no other place to go. This is a team full of nomads just glad to have a job because no one else would sign them. This team, this organization is garbage and no one wants to come here. Why would a highly sought after free agent want to commit to a team with an owner who’s never signed a contract over $100 million? Even if he signed one, would he sign another if that is what is needed to win? Money Talks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 This team will not be competitive again until someone other than JR owns the team. It's in our best interest that they have as little committed to long term contracts and as much stock in the farm system as possible when that moment arrives. As catastrophic as the TLR hiring was, it might end up leaving more of a blank slate for the new ownership to take over. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, ScootsMcGoots said: There's a reason those guys didn't come here. They saw the writing on the wall. The offers or lackthereof was the reason 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 hours ago, Tomtom said: In a debacle such as the 2024 White Sox, one can always point out to that specific moment where it all started to go to sh$$#$%t. A case in point - The NBA's Detroit Pistons - The draft where they passed up on both Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wade to Draft that European monster, Darko Milicek. They haven't been relevent since! For the Sox, I go back to when their glorious owner insisted bringing Tony LaRussa out of retirement - or a nursing home - to manage the Sox. At the same time A.J Hinch was sitting out their looking for a managerial job, and I , for one was screaming for the Sox to hire him. They did not - and now look at what Hinch is doing in Detroit. Of course, it does take more than a manager. It takes a knowlegeable GM and an owner willing to open his wallet. This off season the Tigers went out and brought in some proven Major league talent in Mark Cahna, Gia Urshela and Jack Flaherty....while the Sox bring in the likes o Nicky Lopez, Braden Shewmake (who???) and Dominick Fletcher (who???). Others were out there: Soler, Hernandez, Renfroe, Merrifield, Gurriel, Chapman, JD Martinez - just to name a few. And there were pitchers available as well, but the braintrust - and I use the word brain here modestly - chose to go with the likes of Deivi Garcia, Dominick Leone, Brian Shaw, Tim Hill (who???)...Someone explain to Reinsdorf that in today's world of MLB, and sports in general, you have to spend money to win....and even if you are good at identifying young talent, as soon as they make it big you have to SPEND MONEY to keep those players. Jerry: do you really want a fan base who is simply waiting for your time to come? Sell now to someone who cares. The Pistons won the championship during Darko's rookie season, and then continued to have deep playoff runs after. They weren't relevant then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, T R U said: I think its two things. 1. Hiring Tony LaRussa to manage to club when it was time to take the next step in the rebuild. 2. Missing out on Zach Wheeler and failing to even get serious with Bryce Harper or Manny Machado. Zach Wheeler has been great, Harper has won an MVP and put up 18.7 bWAR over this timreframe and Machado has put up 20.3 To me it started the day they brought back Tony. The momentum started by Rick Renteria carried us to the playoffs the first year. Even then though I knew our team was cursed. That arrogant drunken fool ruined the whole thing. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, T R U said: Wheeler didn't come here because his wife preferred Philly. Machado and Harper didn't come here because we gave Machado a mickey mouse offer disguised as a competitive offer and I don't even think they offered Harper. They could have absolutely gotten one of Harper or Machado if they were serious. Harper was absolutely the move to make and if the money was right he would have signed here imo. I'm not happy about losing out on Wheeler but they did make the right decision to target him and actually did make him a competitive offer. Nothing you can do about his wife's preferences so I don't fault the Sox there. Bringing back LaRussa was just an asshat move. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) Not getting Harper or Machado led them to spend money on Grandal. It was a worthwhile contract for 2 years, but absolute crap after. Not getting Wheeler led to them spending money on Keuchel, who was worth it for 1 60 game season. I'd say these were the biggest mishaps in free agency that led to the rebuild failing. The TLR hire obviously didn't help, but I'm not sure any manager available could have fixed this team's underlying issues with effort, injuries, and just a general lack of chemistry. Edited April 5 by chw42 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tomtom said: In a debacle such as the 2024 White Sox, one can always point out to that specific moment where it all started to go to sh$$#$%t. A case in point - The NBA's Detroit Pistons - The draft where they passed up on both Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wade to Draft that European monster, Darko Milicek. They haven't been relevent since! For the Sox, I go back to when their glorious owner insisted bringing Tony LaRussa out of retirement - or a nursing home - to manage the Sox. At the same time A.J Hinch was sitting out their looking for a managerial job, and I , for one was screaming for the Sox to hire him. They did not - and now look at what Hinch is doing in Detroit. Of course, it does take more than a manager. It takes a knowlegeable GM and an owner willing to open his wallet. This off season the Tigers went out and brought in some proven Major league talent in Mark Cahna, Gia Urshela and Jack Flaherty....while the Sox bring in the likes o Nicky Lopez, Braden Shewmake (who???) and Dominick Fletcher (who???). Others were out there: Soler, Hernandez, Renfroe, Merrifield, Gurriel, Chapman, JD Martinez - just to name a few. And there were pitchers available as well, but the braintrust - and I use the word brain here modestly - chose to go with the likes of Deivi Garcia, Dominick Leone, Brian Shaw, Tim Hill (who???)...Someone explain to Reinsdorf that in today's world of MLB, and sports in general, you have to spend money to win....and even if you are good at identifying young talent, as soon as they make it big you have to SPEND MONEY to keep those players. Jerry: do you really want a fan base who is simply waiting for your time to come? Sell now to someone who cares. Agreed.........this whole thing fell apart the minute they hired LaRusa. Not because Tony does not know baseball but because he was the wrong manager for this team. I am just saddened and miffed by the fact that Jerry just does not give a flying F about the state of the organization, the perception of the organization, and the Fans. I understand I should not be miffed by this but it boggles my mind that he could be this..... I thanked Jerry when we won in 2005. I thought he would keep the momentum going with this organization. He sat through the press conference last year when Kenny/Rick were fired and said "I owe it to the fans." Then proceeds to have Getz put this roster together. It infuriates me that I am a fan of this team. I try not to pay attention to this team but i don't know how not to pay attention. I have looked forward to summers and white sox baseball ever since I became a young fan in 83 BUT they have sucked the life out of my baseball fandom. I hate where this team is right now and I especially hate where this organization is right now. We are a laughing stock! Guys on radio like Parkins and Spiegel get their CUBBY CHUBBYS everyday making fun of the white sox. I hate it! I see no direction or hope of how this is going to improve going forward. We all were sold to be patient during the rebuild only to see a roster that is worse then the rebuild years. We have been lied to and taken advantage off as White Sox fans. Edited April 5 by 2Deep 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 17 minutes ago, chw42 said: Not getting Harper or Machado led them to spend money on Grandal. It was a worthwhile contract for 2 years, but absolute crap after. Not getting Wheeler led to them spending money on Keuchel, who was worth it for 1 60 game season. I'd say these were the biggest mishaps in free agency that led to the rebuild failing. The TLR hire obviously didn't help, but I'm not sure any manager available could have fixed this team's underlying issues with effort, injuries, and just a general lack of chemistry. Main factors to failed contention window beyond 2 years in rough order: 1) Failure to sign a superstar 5-7 WAR player. Several were on the board. 2) Failure to get two average regulars long term out of the tank drafts. Madrigal turned into the Bird Man that got turned into basically nothing. Vaughn is replacement level. Rodon is long gone. 3) Failure to fill in rotation and bullpen with literally any non Crochet additions worth half a damn from our system. Traded away Dunning too early I'd consider part of this, even tho Lance was good for a minute, Dunning was an asset that was too easily moved. 4) Managerial hires, firing of Renteria, hiring of TLR and into Grifol. 5) Collapse of TA and injury problems with Moncada, Eloy and aging / hurt /ineffective Grandal. It's amazing how much just doing 1) would have papered over everything else pretty much. Add 5-7 WAR a season to the last three years and you might just win a playoff series and who knows what happens from there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Not getting at least one of Machado or Harper while you had a cheap young core locked up and had clear holes on the roster. Then, instead using the money on the likes of Yasmani Grandal and those types. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 The Pistons have whiffed on every high pick they've had outside of the 2012 draft, it isn't just Darko. They should have Booker and Giannis on their team. Ironically, the front office that drafted Darko actually knew what it was doing; they won the finals that year, lost in the finals the next year, and went to the conference finals the following three years. Darko probably would've been the right pick if he actually cared about basketball, he was incredibly talented. Anyway, I guess that's all beside the point but I can't imagine what this team is accomplishing if Soler and Canha are on the roster. I know it's not my money, but it still seems like a waste of it. My hope is that the money saved this year is reinvested when the team is actually ready to compete, hopefully next season but realistically 2026. Say what you will about JR, but there seems to be a track record of that sort of thing happening. I co-sign your sentiments about Fletcher, I wouldn't have traded for him, I just also wouldn't replace him with a 30something free agent in a dead year. I probably would've picked the guy who's already on the team making no money, is 25-years-old, and is incredibly talented (Oscar Colás). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 27 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said: Not getting at least one of Machado or Harper while you had a cheap young core locked up and had clear holes on the roster. Then, instead using the money on the likes of Yasmani Grandal and those types. Yep, spreading out your money on B and C tier free agents instead of signing a true difference maker stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 The rebuild was doomed to fail from the start. Hahn, Williams and JR especially we're still running things. Organizational failures go right to JR . Sure he let his GM get old nearly washed up veterans for Tatis Jr. and Marcus Semien. Chris Bassett is still pitching effectively. Where's one International guy from the DR who became anything with the Sox ? It's laughable to hear Getz talk about the DR academy. DR was too corrupt for St. Jerry to conduct business but that's just an excuse to not invest in youth which has always been his calling card along with not paying for tech and people to develop it. These tired old arguments trying to pinpoint one major mistake and wrap it all up with a bow are just lame. It's one person Jerry Reinsdorf . 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Everything was going fine until Tony punished his own player for hitting a home run 2 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtom Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, ron883 said: The Pistons won the championship during Darko's rookie season, and then continued to have deep playoff runs after. They weren't relevant then? Yes, true, but it was the begining of their downfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Everything was going fine until Tony punished his own player for hitting a home run The hire of Tony changed everything. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The hire of Tony changed everything. It seemed like everyone was playing nice. The Mercedes situation happened and you started to see the cracks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuban_sammiches Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 It all started to go south when they hired LaRussa...it all accelerated when they renamed Loretta's Lounge for the lush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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