Bob Sacamano Posted Tuesday at 04:15 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:15 PM 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: But Chris Sale also had a huge jump in workload from 2011 to 2012. He was fine for years after that. I don’t think it’s just the jump from one season. Crochet’s overall body of work in college through his last 6 season was very minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted Tuesday at 04:20 PM Author Share Posted Tuesday at 04:20 PM 1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said: I don’t think it’s just the jump from one season. Crochet’s overall body of work in college through his last 6 season was very minimal. Seems like an inexact science to me, which is why I never understood setting an exact number of innings as a limit for the season. Are 7 innings where the pitcher throws 90 pitches the same as 7 innings where the pitcher throws 115 pitches? Should we be comparing a 6’6” 245 lb frame to a 6’1” 185 lb frame for previously established precedent? There are so many factors that make each situation unique imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Tuesday at 04:33 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:33 PM 9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Seems like an inexact science to me, which is why I never understood setting an exact number of innings as a limit for the season. Are 7 innings where the pitcher throws 90 pitches the same as 7 innings where the pitcher throws 115 pitches? Should we be comparing a 6’6” 245 lb frame to a 6’1” 185 lb frame for previously established precedent? There are so many factors that make each situation unique imo. Chris Sale pitched 36.1 innings in 2008, 89.1 in 2009, and 103 in 2010, in addition to the 33.1 he threw in the pros his draft year. I really don't have a point. His college stats aren't in Baseball-Reference. https://fgcuathletics.com/sports/baseball/roster/chris-sale/997 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted Tuesday at 04:35 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:35 PM 12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Seems like an inexact science to me, which is why I never understood setting an exact number of innings as a limit for the season. Are 7 innings where the pitcher throws 90 pitches the same as 7 innings where the pitcher throws 115 pitches? Should we be comparing a 6’6” 245 lb frame to a 6’1” 185 lb frame for previously established precedent? There are so many factors that make each situation unique imo. Agree here. If you just assume everybody is a little different, then I wish it was just as simple as Garrett letting the team know if he’s feeling general fatigue. Keep going until he feels it. But that’s inexact as well because a player may be tempted to push themselves for personal goals and wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted Tuesday at 04:38 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:38 PM 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I really don't have a point. His college stats aren't in Baseball-Reference. https://fgcuathletics.com/sports/baseball/roster/chris-sale/997 FYI, the baseball cube has college stats as well: https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/146981/ No advanced stats to speak of, but at least it has SOME purpose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Tuesday at 04:41 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:41 PM 7 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Chris Sale pitched 36.1 innings in 2008, 89.1 in 2009, and 103 in 2010, in addition to the 33.1 he threw in the pros his draft year. I really don't have a point. His college stats aren't in Baseball-Reference. https://fgcuathletics.com/sports/baseball/roster/chris-sale/997 Sale had a better base, much closer to his innings explosion, than Crochet did. I have yet to see anyone as a comp for what Garrett is looking at this year. I have asked a bunch of times, and there has never been one provided. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Tuesday at 04:43 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:43 PM 31 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: But Chris Sale also had a huge jump in workload from 2011 to 2012. He was fine for years after that. But he had a history as a starter in college. He had previously worked a starter workload. Crochet never had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Tuesday at 04:45 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:45 PM 22 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Seems like an inexact science to me, which is why I never understood setting an exact number of innings as a limit for the season. Are 7 innings where the pitcher throws 90 pitches the same as 7 innings where the pitcher throws 115 pitches? Should we be comparing a 6’6” 245 lb frame to a 6’1” 185 lb frame for previously established precedent? There are so many factors that make each situation unique imo. Medicine is an inexact science. We do as much research as possible but usually err on the side of caution as the other possibility is injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted Tuesday at 04:47 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:47 PM 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Sale had a better base, much closer to his innings explosion, than Crochet did. I have yet to see anyone as a comp for what Garrett is looking at this year. I have asked a bunch of times, and there has never been one provided. Doesn't exist. This is totally against all training philosophy. Not to say it won't work but they are taking a big risk. It will be interesting to see what they get in a trade because of a limitation this year and what this may do to him next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Tuesday at 05:02 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:02 PM 17 minutes ago, ptatc said: Medicine is an inexact science. We do as much research as possible but usually err on the side of caution as the other possibility is injury. Especially when you have the injury history that Crochet has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Tuesday at 05:26 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:26 PM Looks like a solid scouting opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted Tuesday at 07:37 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:37 PM 3 hours ago, Tony said: Certainly not one to give the Sox any benefit of the doubt (you have much more than I) but I do wonder if this has been a calculated decision, to showcase him as much as possible because they know they will be trading him. There is historical data that does back up what you're saying, and if Crochet was viewed as a long term investment for the Sox, you would think they would handle with more caution, especially in a season when they are the worst team in the league. That is why I think if I were the Sox - I might try to get the market for him now vs. wait until 30 days. If you get a really good offer - don't hold out for the amazing offer cause the risk that something goes wrong in next 30 days is not minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Tuesday at 09:12 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 09:12 PM And right on cue, MLBTR has an article tracking reliever to starter stories: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/07/checking-in-on-2024s-reliever-to-rotation-experiments-july-edition.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted Tuesday at 11:19 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 11:19 PM (edited) There should be separate threads for Cochet ,Robert and Fedde talks and one for the rest of the guys. But anyway here's one proposed trade for Crochet.https://fansided.com/posts/mlb-rumors-garrett-crochet-trade-orioles-outbit-dodgers-padres This writer has 4 articles proposing trade packages from the Dodgers, Padres, Astros and Orioles for Crochet and 2 for Robert from the Phillies and Mariners. The link is for the Orioles proposed trade only because I'm most familiar with their prospects because of all the discussions about the Cease trade. But you might be amused by some of the others. Not a bad proposal with the O's. Edited Tuesday at 11:20 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted Wednesday at 02:19 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:19 AM 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: There should be separate threads for Cochet ,Robert and Fedde talks and one for the rest of the guys. But anyway here's one proposed trade for Crochet.https://fansided.com/posts/mlb-rumors-garrett-crochet-trade-orioles-outbit-dodgers-padres This writer has 4 articles proposing trade packages from the Dodgers, Padres, Astros and Orioles for Crochet and 2 for Robert from the Phillies and Mariners. The link is for the Orioles proposed trade only because I'm most familiar with their prospects because of all the discussions about the Cease trade. But you might be amused by some of the others. Not a bad proposal with the O's. That O’s trade would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 02:30 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:30 AM 10 minutes ago, T R U said: That O’s trade would be great The Dodgers one sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted Wednesday at 02:31 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:31 AM Just now, southsider2k5 said: The Dodgers one sucked. Yeah agree on that for sure. I couldn’t see the others but I’ll go out on a limb and say any offer the Astros can make would suck as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 02:34 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:34 AM 2 minutes ago, T R U said: Yeah agree on that for sure. I couldn’t see the others but I’ll go out on a limb and say any offer the Astros can make would suck as well. Only a few teams really can be in this race. It's going to take both quality and quantity to get either one of these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted Wednesday at 02:41 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:41 AM 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Only a few teams really can be in this race. It's going to take both quality and quantity to get either one of these guys. Robert, Crochet, & Benintendi to Philly for Painter, Miller, Crawford, Caba, and Abel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 03:00 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:00 AM 5 minutes ago, T R U said: Robert, Crochet, & Benintendi to Philly for Painter, Miller, Crawford, Caba, and Abel. Their entire top 5 would be wild. Honestly though? Hold Benny and divide up Robert and Crochet to two different teams. Be nice to pull in 7/8 players with a top 20 guy in each deal, plus 3-4 top 100s, and maybe even some young Latin talent too so as to spread out the waves of players. Then you still have the lesser deals to try to scout more back end of the 100 talent, or even guys like Korey Lee, Ky Bush, or Jake Eder who the shine cam off of, but you still like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted Wednesday at 03:28 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:28 AM Fedde will net a top 100 type or two top 150 types. Crochet will net a top 25, two other top 100, and a lottery ticket. Kopech will net a former failed top 100 and a low level lottery ticket. Brebbia will net a teams #6 type guy. Wilson will net a top 150 type. Flexen will not be traded. Clevenger’s arm will be surgically removed and attached to his rectum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 03:40 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:40 AM 5 minutes ago, hi8is said: Fedde will net a top 100 type or two top 150 types. Crochet will net a top 25, two other top 100, and a lottery ticket. Kopech will net a former failed top 100 and a low level lottery ticket. Brebbia will net a teams #6 type guy. Wilson will net a top 150 type. Flexen will not be traded. Clevenger’s arm will be surgically removed and attached to his rectum. It's wild to think, but the Sox could be adding 10 to 15 quality prospects to the organization at the deadline, if they get everything out the door of value, and don't do something stupid with Benny. Obviously they aren't going to all be top 100 guys, but even deals like Middleton last year added some depth and ceiling to an organization in need of both. A few of these guys will probably be added right to the active roster while many will be years away. Guys like Soroka and DeJong weren't mentioned either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted Wednesday at 03:42 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:42 AM 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: It's wild to think, but the Sox could be adding 10 to 15 quality prospects to the organization at the deadline, if they get everything out the door of value, and don't do something stupid with Benny. Obviously they aren't going to all be top 100 guys, but even deals like Middleton last year added some depth and ceiling to an organization in need of both. A few of these guys will probably be added right to the active roster while many will be years away. Guys like Soroka and DeJong weren't mentioned either. Word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted Wednesday at 04:07 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:07 AM 14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: It's wild to think, but the Sox could be adding 10 to 15 quality prospects to the organization at the deadline, if they get everything out the door of value, and don't do something stupid with Benny. Obviously they aren't going to all be top 100 guys, but even deals like Middleton last year added some depth and ceiling to an organization in need of both. A few of these guys will probably be added right to the active roster while many will be years away. Guys like Soroka and DeJong weren't mentioned either. It would be nice to see this trade market start to crack and open. Getz has a lot of guys he can move and every one is important; no giveaways or rule 5 guys (the guy we fit Texas was a rule 5 guy but we basically traded nothing for him). Trades on the Sox’ terms. But it’s a lot of work and the more time they allow themselves the better. For as much as the Orioles hug their best prospects, they also gave their #18 and #20 to the Cardinals to rent Flaherty and his 1.55 WHIP. There is value in the second and third tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted Wednesday at 11:11 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 11:11 AM 8 hours ago, T R U said: Yeah agree on that for sure. I couldn’t see the others but I’ll go out on a limb and say any offer the Astros can make would suck as well. You just have to click/touch on the writers name and you can see all his articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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