JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Whatever you say… 🙄 What did I say wrong? You’re coming at me about a prediction that largely came true so?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 4 minutes ago, oldsox said: Fact remains, Sox did not get much for Cease. Lol ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 15 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: What did I say wrong? You’re coming at me about a prediction that largely came true so?? You initially said that you expected two prospects in the 50-100 range and two prospects in the 100-200 range for Cease. The Sox received one prospect in the 50-100 range, two prospects in the 100-200 range, and a 29-year old non-closer reliever. You weren’t really as close as you think you were. Another prospect in the 50-100 range is worth a lot more than a 29-year old non-closer reliever. Steven Wilson isn’t returning a prospect in the 50-100 range. Edited May 31 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Lol ok Cease is definitely worth what you expected now with the Padres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You initially said that you expected two prospects in the 50-100 range and two prospects in the 100-200 range for Cease. The Sox received one prospect in the 50-100 range, two prospects in the 100-200 range, and a 29-year old non-closer reliever. You weren’t really as close as you think you were. Another prospect in the 50-100 range is worth a lot more than a 29-year old non-closer reliever. Stephen Wilson isn’t returning a prospect in the 50-100 range. Whatever you say 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 11 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Cease is definitely worth what you expected now with the Padres. And a “worn down” (lol) Crochet is worth next to nothing. Got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Whatever you say 🙄 Nope, I actually used exactly what you said to prove my point. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And a “worn down” (lol) Crochet is worth next to nothing. Got it! So you quoted me saying that Cease is now worth as much as you initially thought to infer that I think Crochet is worth nothing? Nice logic there. Regardless, I will wait patiently for Steven Wilson to return another prospect like Drew Thorpe in the 50-100 range. Then I will admit to your prediction being spot on. Edited May 31 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 36 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Sorry, dude. You have a history of over-hyping and over-expecting on trade return. Cease didn’t return anywhere near as much as you expected and neither would a worn-down Crochet. Your words. I speculated Crochet is worth one 55 FV prospect and two 45/50 FV prospects. So if Crochet “won’t return anywhere near as much as I expect” safe to say you think his value is something like two 45 FV prospects. You’re way off…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Your words. I speculated Crochet is worth one 55 FV prospect and two 45/50 FV prospects. So if Crochet “won’t return anywhere near as much as I expect” safe to say you think his value is something like two 45 FV prospects. You’re way off…. Like others, I don’t think teams will want him at the deadline because of his innings issue (which you don’t agree with). I don’t even think the Sox will trade him until after the season is over. In the offseason, sure, I could see him being worth what you say, granted he keeps up his performance for as long as he pitches this season. Edited May 31 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Like others, I don’t think teams will want him at the deadline because of his innings issue (which you don’t agree with). I don’t even think the Sox will trade him until after the season is over. In the offseason, sure, I could see him being worth what you say, granted he keeps up his performance for as long as he pitches this season. Oh ok, so you’re walking back your earlier statement that he’s not worth anything close to what I expect. Got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Oh ok, so you’re walking back your earlier statement that he’s not worth anything close to what I expect. Got it! Nope. Since you seem to have forgotten your own original post, I will paste it here for you… ”I’ve asked this person question in a few other threads but thought it deserved its own. What are your guesses on the trade value of Sox starting pitchers as we approach the trade deadline?” I have already stated this but I don’t think Crochet is worth what you expect at the trade deadline due to his innings predicament for this year. And yes, I understand that you don’t think he has any innings issues, but I disagree. Edited May 31 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 What I'd like to see is Crochet, then Thorpe followed by Noah Schultz in our rotation. I'd like to see it next year. Sure, we're not gonna score too much. The other teams won't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: Nope. Since you seem to have forgotten your own original post, I will paste it here for you… ”I’ve asked this question in a few other threads but thought it deserved its own. What are your guesses on the trade value of Sox starting pitchers as we approach the trade deadline?” I have already stated this but I don’t think Crochet is worth what you expect at the trade deadline due to his innings predicament for this year. And yes, I understand that you don’t think he has any innings issues, but I disagree. So he has less trade value in July 2024 than he does in November 2024? Makes no sense, especially since you think he’ll be shut down for most of August/September. Why would his value drop if he’s not pitching anyways and simply has less team control in the offseason than this summer? Zero logic here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: So he has less trade value in July 2024 than he does in November 2024? Makes no sense, especially since you think he’ll be shut down for most of August/September. Why would his value drop if he’s not pitching anyways and simply has less team control in the offseason than this summer? Zero logic here. Why would any team needing a starter for the postseason run and the playoffs use their trade resources to acquire a pitcher that can’t pitch for the rest of the season and the playoffs? They will trade for a starter that has gas left in his tank. This isn’t MLB The Show. A team isn’t going to jump to trade for Crochet at the deadline for what he can do for them in 2025. If Crochet holds up and finishes the season strong, his value is in an offseason trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Why would any team needing a starter for the postseason run and the playoffs use their trade resources to acquire a pitcher that can’t pitch for the rest of the season and the playoffs? They will trade for a starter that has gas left in his tank. This isn’t MLB The Show. A team isn’t going to jump to trade for Crochet at the deadline for what he can do for them in 2025. If Crochet holds up and finishes the season strong, his value is in an offseason trade. They will if they aren’t planning to shut him down for the last two months of the season like you and the rest of soxtalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: They will if they aren’t planning to shut him down for the last two months of the season like you and the rest of soxtalk. A guy can’t magically jump to pitching 200 innings from where Crochet was at just because a team trades for him and wants him to do so. Sure, they can try it but his performance will likely be degraded and even worse, he could get injured. I don’t think MLB teams view this situation the same way you do. Even some of the articles written about trade targets have mentioned Crochet’s innings, and that’s from typically clueless sports writers. Edited May 31 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: A guy can’t magically jump to pitching 200 innings from where Crochet was at just because a team trade for him and wants him to. Sure, they can try but his performance will likely be degraded and even worse, he could get injured. Who said 200 innings? He’ll still have a ton of value to a prospective trade partner THIS season if he can pitch 150 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Who said 200 innings? He’ll still have a ton of value to a prospective trade partner THIS season if he can pitch 150 innings. I just threw a number out there. Crochet lasting 150 innings (regular season or regular season + playoffs if traded) with good performance would surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 13 minutes ago, zisk said: What I'd like to see is Crochet, then Thorpe followed by Noah Schultz in our rotation. I'd like to see it next year. Sure, we're not gonna score too much. The other teams won't either. Schultz probably needs another year in the minors to ramp-up. And that’s ok because I think we’ll have seven or eight guys in competition for three or four spots. Might as well use 2025 to see what you have in those guys and call up Schultz when he’s able to contribute without significant limitations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: They will if they aren’t planning to shut him down for the last two months of the season like you and the rest of soxtalk. These are just really weird flexes. Again, if you’re going to continue to be condescending about this, show us some examples of such a ramp-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I just threw a number out there. Crochet lasting 150 innings (regular season or regular season + playoffs if traded) with good performance would surprise me. It’s all a crap shoot though. You said teams are looking for starters with gas left in the tank but that’s not an exact science at all. Top starters at last year’s deadline like Scherzer, Lorenzen, Flaherty fizzled hard after they were traded while guys like Montgomery and Verlander did great. It’s a crap shoot with most of these guys. All it takes is one playoff contender to fall in love with Crochet and to think he’ll be highly useful this August thru October to bring back a very nice haul for the Sox this July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: These are just really weird flexes. Again, if you’re going to continue to be condescending about this, show us some examples of such a ramp-up? What flex? How about you and the majority of soxtalk point me to where crochet or the organization has said they plan to shut him down or impose some arbitrary 100 inning limit on him this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: What flex? How about you and the majority of soxtalk point me to where crochet or the organization has said they plan to shut him down or impose some arbitrary 100 inning limit on him this season? Yes, because teams usually declare the exact number of innings that they expect from each of their starters. Why would a team declare this? What benefit would it provide? Come on… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 31 Author Share Posted May 31 24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Yes, because teams usually declare the exact number of innings that they expect from each of their starters. Why would a team declare this? What benefit would it provide? Come on… They do it all the time. Dodgers have been open about their plan with Buehler this season, for example. https://dodgerblue.com/walker-buehler-tommy-john-recovery-innings-limit-season-delayed-dodgers-opening-day-rotation/2024/02/04/amp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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