Is it wrong to want the Sox to embarrass themselves?

[nrockway]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Royals stadium referendum got its ass kicked.

For now. That thing's gettin built even if it's in Kansas and not Missouri. Voters rejected a stupid idea, they might accept a well-designed plan or the Royals/Chiefs will otherwise find a different source of public money that doesn't require a referendum. I don't know why it even came to a referendum, they were obviously going to lose. The Braves managed to squeeze $300mil out of Cobb County, GA without a vote. I just imagine the Braves are competently run and the Royals are not.  

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, nrockway said:

For now. That thing's gettin built even if it's in Kansas and not Missouri. Voters rejected a stupid idea, they might accept a well-designed plan or the Royals/Chiefs will otherwise find a different source of public money that doesn't require a referendum. I don't know why it even came to a referendum, they were obviously going to lose. The Braves managed to squeeze $300mil out of Cobb County, GA without a vote. I just imagine the Braves are competently run and the Royals are not.  

Royals' PR campaign was incredibly tone deaf...sound familiar?

[nrockway]

4 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

You're right, except now this organization would have to drastically overpay to get a guy to willingly choose to sign here - something they've never ever been able to do. Adams and Kim are both going to have big markets and thus the Sox will be left standing with their thumbs up their ass if by some miracle they actually did decide to go after a big name. No way any FA worth a damn is gonna want to come here.

You make a good point so maybe it's more like taking on salary in a trade.

 

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Assuming from this strategy you're already planning on Montgomery moving over to third?

I guess I am not seeing how overpaying for a non-star SS is really going to move the meter...you certainly don't want to pay for past production for players nearing their down sides, yet we are already trying to clear out Robert with with 3 1/2 years remaining on his deal simultaneously.

I do think Montgomery will end up at 3B but if he does stay at SS, I like Kim more than Adames because he can play 2B as well and I see no reason to assume he wouldn't hold up for a 5 year contract. Who knows what it would take to sign him but I don't think it's close to Bogaertz/Turner money, maybe more like 5 years, $125m. 

Who the specific player is is not so relevant to the larger point, they just need to bring in players on actual contracts to supplement the roster. I think there's some internal talent on this team but not enough to create a lineup that's any good. maybe a pitching staff. Even adding one guy whose still in his 20s. The overarching point is that I was OK with the team not spending any money this year because it was a wash anyway, but next year may not be a wash.

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, nrockway said:

You make a good point so maybe it's more like taking on salary in a trade.

 

I do think Montgomery will end up at 3B but if he does stay at SS, I like Kim more than Adames because he can play 2B as well and I see no reason to assume he wouldn't hold up for a 5 year contract. Who knows what it would take to sign him but I don't think it's close to Bogaertz/Turner money, maybe more like 5 years, $125m. 

Who the specific player is is not so relevant to the larger point, they just need to bring in players on actual contracts to supplement the roster. I think there's some internal talent on this team but not enough to create a lineup that's any good. maybe a pitching staff. Even adding one guy whose still in his 20s. The overarching point is that I was OK with the team not spending any money this year because it was a wash anyway, but next year may not be a wash.

Just hard to imagine with how great a season Kim had last year and how much he loves being on the West Coast and hours closer to Korea...Adames just feels much more realistic.

Overpay for Kim would be pretty substantial to get him to move to the worst team in baseball after what he experienced the last 2-3 seasons in terms of playoff expectations. He just feeds off the huge fan support there.

Edited April 14 by caulfield12

[HOFHurt35]

This is headed to Oakland A's / Montreal Expos territory.   I'm at the point in wishing for this sooner than later when it comes to having to put up with an owner that just doesn't die or sell the team. 

What happens after Reinsdorf moves the team?  Then I can move on with my life in finding either another team to pull for or just stop watching baseball altogether and do other more important things with my life. 

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

5 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

This is headed to Oakland A's / Montreal Expos territory.   I'm at the point in wishing for this sooner than later when it comes to having to put up with an owner that just doesn't die or sell the team. 

What happens after Reinsdorf moves the team?  Then I can move on with my life in finding either another team to pull for or just stop watching baseball altogether and do other more important things with my life. 

 

 

I wouldn't lose any sleep over this happening. It's not. 

[Sox80]

3 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Im finding myself wanting the Sox to lose in embarrassing fashion day in and day out. I would be even happier if they break some records along the way. Worst record is still on the table, the shutout record, worst OPS record, etc..

I consider myself a diehard fan, but what kind of fan wants their team to fail miserably? We can only draft 10th next year so why am i feeling this way? I dont quite know what to think anymore. 
 

does anyone else feel this way?

I'm sorry why can they only draft 10th?

[ron883]

7 minutes ago, Sox80 said:

I'm sorry why can they only draft 10th?

New rules. They're a "big market team", so they can't draft that high in two consecutive years. Only applies to big market teams. Something along those lines. 

[MEANS]

They couldn’t go a full day without embarrassing themselves for over three years now and they still don’t get it. f*** ’em. Rooting for them to lose is all that is left besides waiting for the old dick head to pass.

[Sox80]

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

New rules. They're a "big market team", so they can't draft that high in two consecutive years. Only applies to big market teams. Something along those lines. 

Thanks.  I just looked that up. That's so stupid.   More reasons to dislike MLB 

[Tony]

2 hours ago, tray said:

I you are a cub fan go ahead. Nothing positive comes from losing...nothing. You break the spirit of the players and the fans and diminish the franchise in every way imaginable.  That is why I don't trust or respect the opinions of those who relish in WSox losses.

I've watched probably 5x as much Cubs Baseball than White Sox Baseball, which still isn't a ton given how much I've actually seen of the Sox...but it doesn't make you a better "fan" to suffer through watching a 2-13 team when there is another team in town that actually competes in the sport they play in. It just makes you the fool.

[Paulie4Pres]

24 minutes ago, Tony said:

I've watched probably 5x as much Cubs Baseball than White Sox Baseball, which still isn't a ton given how much I've actually seen of the Sox...but it doesn't make you a better "fan" to suffer through watching a 2-13 team when there is another team in town that actually competes in the sport they play in. It just makes you the fool.

Yep. White Sox are in danger of losing entire generations of fans by being a total embarrassment. There's absolutely no reason to be a Sox fan over a Cubs fan right now. Any young kid growing up liking baseball is going to choose the Cubs.

[Vote4Pedro]

41 minutes ago, Sox80 said:

Thanks.  I just looked that up. That's so stupid.   More reasons to dislike MLB 

Wouldn’t be an issue if your owner acted like a large market team and spent money like a large market team. 

[Quin]

3 hours ago, tray said:

I you are a cub fan go ahead. Nothing positive comes from losing...nothing. You break the spirit of the players and the fans and diminish the franchise in every way imaginable.  That is why I don't trust or respect the opinions of those who relish in WSox losses.

Hey asshole:

I wrote my thesis on Minnie Minoso, watch the Dash every time they come to Brooklyn, bought my dad artwork of Aparicio, own jerseys and hat for three of their minor league teams in addition to the Sox swag that makes up my wardrobe and I'll be dead before I root for the team that failed my grandfather before he died (my mom's side was Cubs fans, she converted).

Despite all that, I want the owner who's stomped on my fandom, his lackey GM and braindead manager to get their just desserts.

But you go back to pissing on what could be the best thing for the Sox in decades in the form of a new stadium because you've got some vendetta against dirt.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

Hey asshole:

I wrote my thesis on Minnie Minoso, watch the Dash every time they come to Brooklyn, bought my dad artwork of Aparicio, own jerseys and hat for three of their minor league teams in addition to the Sox swag that makes up my wardrobe and I'll be dead before I root for the team that failed my grandfather before he died (my mom's side was Cubs fans, she converted).

Despite all that, I want the owner who's stomped on my fandom, his lackey GM and braindead manager to get their just desserts.

But you go back to pissing on what could be the best thing for the Sox in decades in the form of a new stadium because you've got some vendetta against dirt.

HE'S DEAD ALREADY!

[greg775]

42 minutes ago, Quin said:

Hey asshole:

I wrote my thesis on Minnie Minoso, watch the Dash every time they come to Brooklyn, bought my dad artwork of Aparicio, own jerseys and hat for three of their minor league teams in addition to the Sox swag that makes up my wardrobe and I'll be dead before I root for the team that failed my grandfather before he died (my mom's side was Cubs fans, she converted).

Despite all that, I want the owner who's stomped on my fandom, his lackey GM and braindead manager to get their just desserts.

But you go back to pissing on what could be the best thing for the Sox in decades in the form of a new stadium because you've got some vendetta against dirt.

I'd read that thesis. Post it here pls. Nice stuff.

[Quin]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'd read that thesis. Post it here pls. Nice stuff.

Lol, Greg I think I only have hard copies after a hard drive crashed, but if I find it in emails to my professors I'll DM it to you.

[joejoesox]

f*** no, i want this stink on them for years, it's the only way people are gonna lose their jobs, by national embarassment

[greg775]

55 minutes ago, Quin said:

Lol, Greg I think I only have hard copies after a hard drive crashed, but if I find it in emails to my professors I'll DM it to you.

Thanks i worship minnie in a non religious kinda way. Also Luis Aparicio and the late Gary Peters.

[Greg Hibbard]

Ask yourself this question: how would a historically bad season cause the outcome you want?

because I’m not sure that a 120 loss season affects Reinsdorf’s net worth or the franchise valuation that much, especially because the biggest dollars are from cable, not from ticket sales. Unless lots and lot of people stay away for years I’m not sure it does anything either way.

that all being said I’m verging on full boycott mode (as I did for the Blackhawks from 1997 until the day Bill Wirtz died)

[RTC]

Embrace the horror. 

[Milkman delivers]

3 hours ago, Sox80 said:

Thanks.  I just looked that up. That's so stupid.   More reasons to dislike MLB 

More reasons to hate cheap piece of s%*# owners of franchises that never really try to win.

3 hours ago, Vote4Pedro said:

Wouldn’t be an issue if your owner acted like a large market team and spent money like a large market team. 

Yep.

2 hours ago, Quin said:

Lol, Greg I think I only have hard copies after a hard drive crashed, but if I find it in emails to my professors I'll DM it to you.

Scan that s%*#.

1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Ask yourself this question: how would a historically bad season cause the outcome you want?

because I’m not sure that a 120 loss season affects Reinsdorf’s net worth or the franchise valuation that much, especially because the biggest dollars are from cable, not from ticket sales. Unless lots and lot of people stay away for years I’m not sure it does anything either way.

that all being said I’m verging on full boycott mode (as I did for the Blackhawks from 1997 until the day Bill Wirtz died)

A fact I’m sure our owner is well aware of.

[Chick Mercedes]

8 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Im finding myself wanting the Sox to lose in embarrassing fashion day in and day out. I would be even happier if they break some records along the way. Worst record is still on the table, the shutout record, worst OPS record, etc..

I consider myself a diehard fan, but what kind of fan wants their team to fail miserably? We can only draft 10th next year so why am i feeling this way? I dont quite know what to think anymore. 
 

does anyone else feel this way?

Enthusiastically, unashamedly.

[Chick Mercedes]

2 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Ask yourself this question: how would a historically bad season cause the outcome you want?

because I’m not sure that a 120 loss season affects Reinsdorf’s net worth or the franchise valuation that much, especially because the biggest dollars are from cable, not from ticket sales. Unless lots and lot of people stay away for years I’m not sure it does anything either way.

that all being said I’m verging on full boycott mode (as I did for the Blackhawks from 1997 until the day Bill Wirtz died)

I don’t have an answer for that, but status quo seems insane. We’re looking at the richest contract in franchise history in left field as illustrative of massive dysfunction of a moribund franchise. Just let it burn. Nothing’s going to happen positively either way. At least more people will point at Jerry Reinsdorf as a clown. At least people will look at his stadium proposal as a joke. At least he can’t relax in his suite if the team is a laughing stock that  North America has never seen before. If Jerry is uncomfortable, that is worth something to me, because I’m pretty god damn uncomfortable.

[Quin]

9 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

I don’t have an answer for that, but status quo seems insane. We’re looking at the richest contract in franchise history in left field as illustrative of massive dysfunction of a moribund franchise. Just let it burn. Nothing’s going to happen positively either way. At least more people will point at Jerry Reinsdorf as a clown. At least people will look at his stadium proposal as a joke. At least he can’t relax in his suite if the team is a laughing stock that  North America has never seen before. If Jerry is uncomfortable, that is worth something to me, because I’m pretty god damn uncomfortable.

It has also been shown — repeatedly — that Reinsdorf only moves on from the status quo if that status quo is national embarrassment.

It's why Thibs got canned (leaking stuff to the press that show Bulls dysfunction), why GarPax got jettisoned (the ASG protests), KW/Hahn finally being fired, etc.

Now imagine if the status quo is national embarrassment? Getz has done f*** and all to show that he can put together a roster, with his best MLB acquisition so far being (using fWAR for the sake of something quantifiable)...Kevin Pillar and Steven Wilson.

So a guy that they dicked around in free agency and a reliever that was part of a trade package for their ace.

Pedro will be this year's sacrificial lamb, but if they're hysterically bad (I'm talking minus-60 wins) while Reinsdorf is trying to get a stadium deal — Getz might actually feel heat. If he gets them to even 70 wins, his job is safe.