No player symbolizes Chris Getz Player Development like Lenyn Sosa

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, T R U said:

Here's whats real, this team absolutely sucks and 99% of the people on this board have had enough. Why is your expectation to come in and poke the bear and not get any kind of kickback for it? Then you shame all the people for rightfully being pissed about whats going on. Of course you are going catch a lot of strays now.

And "poking the bear" was a lot of just making a comment, like, "I'm liking this bullpen", and getting clobbered. Which, again, is expected. There are people who show up to mock every single statement and move, and jump on every person who isn't negative. You called me or my comment a train wreck. When I give it back, I'm "getting personal". 

[Snopek]

We're still doing this back and forth in every other thread huh.

Anyway, great initial post to the thread. Reality is a bummer.

[WestEddy]

18 hours ago, bmags said:

It’s annoying because when these guys come up so much relies on them hitting immediately because they are complete deadweight otherwise. Complete negative players that have to hit 120 wRC* to be above average.

Okay, then I'll do this.

they say the jump from AAA to the bigs is the largest it's ever been. On top of that, our AAA facility is a bandbox that inflates offensive production, where guys like Colas, Chuckie Robinson, Lenyn Sosa and others look like viable offensive pieces - who show up at GRF, and proceed to hit .120. 

I almost think it would be as productive to leave Colson Montgomery and Quero at AA, let them hit .400, then promote them straight from Birmingham. 

[WhiteSox2023]

27 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Well, not having a "wait and see" attitude didn't really change anything, either. So my choices were to start screaming back in December, or figure out what or whom to root for. You do what you want, and I'll do what I want. Nobody's stopping you. I get lots of advice, here, of what I'm supposed to be thinking and feeling about this team, and why I should be apoplectic about each individual move. If that's what you're calling a train wreck, I sure hope Joe Biden shows up and comforts everyone. 

You would need to be comforted too if your family member was cannibalized in Papua New Guinea.

[WhiteSox2023]

23 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If you're going to quibble with the word "stars", fine. Then let's say that Getz came in, saddled with 5 veteran players, all of who could have been expected to hit like major league baseball players, as they have in the past. And all 5 either got injured early, s%*# the bed, or both. 

And if somebody wants to jump in and start arguing that no, none of those players should have been relied upon, then you're only making a more sympathetic argument than I did, as they came into the season with 5 dead bodies they had to roster. 

The problem with Getz’s offseason was that he already had a questionable lineup of injury-prone (Eloy, Moncada, Robert) and/or unproductive/disappointing players (Vaughn, Benintendi) and he chose to add four starters or platoon starters that are mostly terrible.  Getz left zero room for error in the form of a player or two having a down year or getting injured.

Edited April 23 by WhiteSox2023

[Dick Allen]

Someone is trying to argue missing Moncada, Robert and ILoy for 20 games is all the difference when this team has been outscored 123-45. If all 3 of them were that good, they would make Ohtani look like he's making minimum. And they played about as much as they ever play last season and the team lost 101 games.

Edited April 23 by Dick Allen

[WestEddy]

40 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The problem with Getz’s offseason was that he already had a questionable lineup of injury-prone (Eloy, Moncada, Robert) and/or unproductive/disappointing players (Vaughn, Benintendi) and he chose to add four starters or platoon starters that are mostly terrible.  Getz left zero room for error in the form of a player or two to have a down year or getting injured.

Okay, I'll agree with you. I don't know how stringent JR was on the budget. I do believe that the Sox were in such a bad position that they really had to overpay to bring in players. Benintendi probably should have been a 3-year deal, but I'm guessing they had to go to 5 to beat out another offer that wasn't even as good as their own 3-year offer. 

It was also a strange off-season that really reeks of collusion. They had offers on the table to guys like Pham and Clevinger for months. 

 

Edited April 23 by WestEddy

[Dick Allen]

24 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, I'll agree with you. I don't know how stringent JR was on the budget. I do believe that the Sox were in such a bad position that they really had to overpay to bring in players. Benintendi probably should have been a 3-year deal, but I'm guessing they had to go to 5 to beat out another offer that wasn't even as good as the other team's 3-year offer. 

It was also a strange off-season that really reeks of collusion. They had offers on the table to guys like Pham and Clevinger for months. 

 

The reason Getz got the job is because he would take it and kiss the ring. Payroll is down huge. The first question any candidate from another team would have asked him would have been about payroll and budget. If JR was straight wtih them, they would have ended their candidacy right after they got done eating the meal JR bought them. 

[WhiteSox2023]

18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The reason Getz got the job is because he would take it and kiss the ring. Payroll is down huge. The first question any candidate from another team would have asked him would have been about payroll and budget. If JR was straight wtih them, they would have ended their candidacy right after they got done eating the meal JR bought them. 

You mean any “qualified” candidate.  Chris Getz was just a guy taking a big promotion he wasn’t worth of.  It probably didn’t matter to him if he was going to have a $50 million dollar payroll restriction.  Like you said, he kissed the ring and got promoted to a position that no other team would have given him.

[Quin]

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You mean any “qualified” candidate.  Chris Getz was just a guy taking a big promotion he wasn’t worth of.  It probably didn’t matter to him if he was going to have a $50 million dollar payroll restriction.  Like you said, he kissed the ring and got promoted to a position that no other team would have given him.

Legitimately wondering if any organization (other than the Royals) would hire Getz for any role.

[caulfield12]

Or Andrew Benintendi at the major league level...

[Paulie4Pres]

10 hours ago, WestEddy said:

And I didn't think the "pecker" comment would strike a nerve. We're all bigger than we were 12 years ago. Sorry.

 

I'm 60

Of course you are.

[Iwritecode]

17 hours ago, WestEddy said:

If you're going to quibble with the word "stars", fine. Then let's say that Getz came in, saddled with 5 veteran players, all of who could have been expected to hit like major league baseball players, as they have in the past. And all 5 either got injured early, s%*# the bed, or both. 

And if somebody wants to jump in and start arguing that no, none of those players should have been relied upon, then you're only making a more sympathetic argument than I did, as they came into the season with 5 dead bodies they had to roster. 

I haven't really been following this discussion overall. I just thought it was odd that you would double-down on something like that when their stats say otherwise. 

[Chimpton]

11 hours ago, Quin said:

Legitimately wondering if any organization (other than the Royals) would hire Getz for any role.

 

11 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Or Andrew Benintendi at the major league level...

Or hire Pedro as manager at major league level....

(Even the Royals wouldn't do that and he was at their organisation)

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, Chimpton said:

 

Or hire Pedro as manager at major league level....

(Even the Royals wouldn't do that and he was at their organisation)

They passed over him twice in fact. 

[southsider2k5]

Here's the thing.  Lenyn Sosa to some extent IS a success story.  The Sox spent $350k on him to sign him out of Venezuela.  Look any player that you sign at 16 years old, who gets through your farm system to the major leagues is a success.  The thing is, for a kid that is fully a product of the White Sox from literally Day 1, you hope to see a much better grasp of the basics.  Look I get the majors are hard, not everyone has the skills to hit at that level, and maybe Sosa figures it out.  Maybe he is a 4A guy.  That we can still figure out over time.  What bothers me is his baseball IQ seems to be minimal.  After almost 8 years in our system, there are things you CAN control and fix and that is understanding the game.  I hate seeing guy come through the system who have no idea what they are doing.  I get them maybe not being able to hit a 98 mph fastball, because that is a physical thing that not many can do.  But I do expect them to understand how to think the game and make the right mental choices in a play.

[WestEddy]

3 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

I haven't really been following this discussion overall. I just thought it was odd that you would double-down on something like that when their stats say otherwise. 

I'm not sure what I'm doubling down on. Maybe you should follow the discussion. 

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Here's the thing.  Lenyn Sosa to some extent IS a success story.  The Sox spent $350k on him to sign him out of Venezuela.  Look any player that you sign at 16 years old, who gets through your farm system to the major leagues is a success.  The thing is, for a kid that is fully a product of the White Sox from literally Day 1, you hope to see a much better grasp of the basics.  Look I get the majors are hard, not everyone has the skills to hit at that level, and maybe Sosa figures it out.  Maybe he is a 4A guy.  That we can still figure out over time.  What bothers me is his baseball IQ seems to be minimal.  After almost 8 years in our system, there are things you CAN control and fix and that is understanding the game.  I hate seeing guy come through the system who have no idea what they are doing.  I get them maybe not being able to hit a 98 mph fastball, because that is a physical thing that not many can do.  But I do expect them to understand how to think the game and make the right mental choices in a play.

Pretty much every fringe guy we have is asked to come up and rake, because they will be an absolute negative in every other aspect.

And then you break down the hitting and they'll have to absolutely rake by making an insane amount of contact or power, because they come up with no discipline, no concept of pitch selection. They swing a lot in the zone, they swing a lot out of the zone, they swing a lot.

They are all just different flavors of danny palka, except many without the power.

We've seen the As put out horrendous payrolls, we saw the year the padres played like 5 rule 5 selections for half the year. None were as bad as this team is.

The guy in charge, was the guy in charge for getting players ready for the bigs. He may have not been given the talent to be a normal bad team, but I think any other GM from a normal team could have avoided "worst offense in history, even when offenses were bad because they were fighting off symptoms of syphilis and extreme dehydration"

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

Pretty much every fringe guy we have is asked to come up and rake, because they will be an absolute negative in every other aspect.

And then you break down the hitting and they'll have to absolutely rake by making an insane amount of contact or power, because they come up with no discipline, no concept of pitch selection. They swing a lot in the zone, they swing a lot out of the zone, they swing a lot.

They are all just different flavors of danny palka, except many without the power.

We've seen the As put out horrendous payrolls, we saw the year the padres played like 5 rule 5 selections for half the year. None were as bad as this team is.

The guy in charge, was the guy in charge for getting players ready for the bigs. He may have not been given the talent to be a normal bad team, but I think any other GM from a normal team could have avoided "worst offense in history, even when offenses were bad because they were fighting off symptoms of syphilis and extreme dehydration"

This is what my red flag is.  The things that seem to be learnable, aren't be learned here.  Like I said, get some things are beyond teaching, but some things are teachable, and we don't seem to be getting better at them.  We seem to be the dumbest baseball IQ team on a year in and year out basis.

[Quin]

To pile on:

It seemed like Lenyn always had to figure out each minor league level himself.

It was a pattern. He'd struggle hard when first promoted, then go on tears.

Is it any shock that the one level that that doesn't work at is the major league level?

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

To pile on:

It seemed like Lenyn always had to figure out each minor league level himself.

It was a pattern. He'd struggle hard when first promoted, then go on tears.

Is it any shock that the one level that that doesn't work at is the major league level?

He's never gotten an extended period at the majors either.

[bmags]

21 minutes ago, Quin said:

To pile on:

It seemed like Lenyn always had to figure out each minor league level himself.

It was a pattern. He'd struggle hard when first promoted, then go on tears.

Is it any shock that the one level that that doesn't work at is the major league level?

I remember, specifically, so probably wrongly, as TA was coming up we had a lot of comments like "he seemed really teachable" as we knew he was so raw but was making a lot of progress at each level. Turns out he was just extremely athletic and talented and able to use his fast hands to get to anything.

And then fast forward and someone interviewed and he was basically like "we just played games until I got to majors." ANd didn't really remembered being coached much to that point.

[Lip Man 1]

34 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is what my red flag is.  The things that seem to be learnable, aren't be learned here.  Like I said, get some things are beyond teaching, but some things are teachable, and we don't seem to be getting better at them.  We seem to be the dumbest baseball IQ team on a year in and year out basis.

Absolutely correct. The Sox haven't been good at fundamentals for years, 2005 and 20212 stick out as them being good in my mind.

Every year you hear the talk about stressing fundamentals in spring training and every year it is the same nonsense.

Personally I think it is a combination of "baseball-stupid" players and staffs that are incapable of teaching them properly and getting through to these guys.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

I remember, specifically, so probably wrongly, as TA was coming up we had a lot of comments like "he seemed really teachable" as we knew he was so raw but was making a lot of progress at each level. Turns out he was just extremely athletic and talented and able to use his fast hands to get to anything.

And then fast forward and someone interviewed and he was basically like "we just played games until I got to majors." ANd didn't really remembered being coached much to that point.

Almost the reverse of the Semien situation where a 6th rounder was projected by numerous scouts to be tapped out projection or potential-wise/utility or fringe AAAA...until he found someone in another organization who really believed in him as a player and invested so much personal time in his development.

Tatis, they simply got outscouted on what possible range of outcomes they had on their hands from the Padres having 3x the amount of Latin American coverage...and investing time in stalking the back fields.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Absolutely correct. The Sox haven't been good at fundamentals for years, 2005 and 20212 stick out as them being good in my mind.

Every year you hear the talk about stressing fundamentals in spring training and every year it is the same nonsense.

Personally I think it is a combination of "baseball-stupid" players and staffs that are incapable of teaching them properly and getting through to these guys.

Feels like that was 50% Pods and Iguchi and AJ the first half of that season...Crede Rowand and Uribe were already pretty gifted defensively.