No player symbolizes Chris Getz Player Development like Lenyn Sosa

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Absolutely correct. The Sox haven't been good at fundamentals for years, 2005 and 20212 stick out as them being good in my mind.

Every year you hear the talk about stressing fundamentals in spring training and every year it is the same nonsense.

Personally I think it is a combination of "baseball-stupid" players and staffs that are incapable of teaching them properly and getting through to these guys.

I just don't believe baseball stupid is it. Marcus Semien appeared baseball stupid here. 

Omar Narvaez was considered baseball stupid and a terrible defensive catcher, only to have the brewers and mariners work to turn him into a defensive plus catcher before his offense cratered. He's another great example of needing way better offense than expected to stick, but the team doing nothing to make them more well rounded, just ditching them.

I could definitely buy that the Cardinals scout for defense much better than the white sox. But then I also see how they reacted with horror at how bad Jordan Walker was at defense last year in the outfield, and put a full court press on to improve it and he did. He is capable of it because he's young and a good athlete, and no I don't think the cardinals could turn Gavin Sheets into that.

But for all the rest of the guys ... the white sox think that you develop by playing a lot of ball games. But that thesis has failed man. That's not enough, especially when you have so rid yourself of any players who know how to do it differently.

Sorry - Jimmy rollins came in and the damn house of cards nearly fell apart.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Feels like that was 50% Pods and Iguchi and AJ the first half of that season...Crede Rowand and Uribe were already pretty gifted defensively.

 I don't remember this really being a KW era thing, but he also had such a veteran team the whole time. But that said, Crede, Beckham, Anderson...all were pretty defense forward from the beginning (I recall?). 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I just don't believe baseball stupid is it. Marcus Semien appeared baseball stupid here. 

Omar Narvaez was considered baseball stupid and a terrible defensive catcher, only to have the brewers and mariners work to turn him into a defensive plus catcher before his offense cratered. He's another great example of needing way better offense than expected to stick, but the team doing nothing to make them more well rounded, just ditching them.

I could definitely buy that the Cardinals scout for defense much better than the white sox. But then I also see how they reacted with horror at how bad Jordan Walker was at defense last year in the outfield, and put a full court press on to improve it and he did. He is capable of it because he's young and a good athlete, and no I don't think the cardinals could turn Gavin Sheets into that.

But for all the rest of the guys ... the white sox think that you develop by playing a lot of ball games. But that thesis has failed man. That's not enough, especially when you have so rid yourself of any players who know how to do it differently.

Sorry - Jimmy rollins came in and the damn house of cards nearly fell apart.

Walker just got sent down.

[bmags]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Walker just got sent down.

That was more his 44 wRC+ than his hilarious defense of the first half of last year.

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

I just don't believe baseball stupid is it. Marcus Semien appeared baseball stupid here. 

Omar Narvaez was considered baseball stupid and a terrible defensive catcher, only to have the brewers and mariners work to turn him into a defensive plus catcher before his offense cratered. He's another great example of needing way better offense than expected to stick, but the team doing nothing to make them more well rounded, just ditching them.

I could definitely buy that the Cardinals scout for defense much better than the white sox. But then I also see how they reacted with horror at how bad Jordan Walker was at defense last year in the outfield, and put a full court press on to improve it and he did. He is capable of it because he's young and a good athlete, and no I don't think the cardinals could turn Gavin Sheets into that.

But for all the rest of the guys ... the white sox think that you develop by playing a lot of ball games. But that thesis has failed man. That's not enough, especially when you have so rid yourself of any players who know how to do it differently.

Sorry - Jimmy rollins came in and the damn house of cards nearly fell apart.

Lol

Jimmy Rollins really did come in and go "perhaps a child taking grounders when we need to work on things is a waste of time" and it unleashed Armageddon 

[caulfield12]

Just now, bmags said:

 I don't remember this really being a KW era thing, but he also had such a veteran team the whole time. But that said, Crede, Beckham, Anderson...all were pretty defense forward from the beginning (I recall?). 

Beckham was obviously later...but physically limited at SS.

Anderson never had the work ethic/dedication to improve offensively...just relied on his natural gifts in CF but that was a different era.

And for every one of those defenders...there was a Josh Fields or Dayan Viciedo mixed in that just never found a defensive home.

[caulfield12]

Just now, Quin said:

Lol

Jimmy Rollins really did come in and go "perhaps a child taking grounders when we need to work on things is a waste of time" and it unleashed Armageddon 

Forcing Ventura to stick around as long term manager when his heart was clearly elsewhere one of many front office misreads.

It took some pressure away from JR KW Dunn Ozzie Buehrle situations...he was the last guy standing to take a lot of hits for an organization clearly in transition. 

Should have left after 2012.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Forcing Ventura to stick around as long term manager when his heart was clearly elsewhere one of many front office misreads.

It took some pressure away from JR KW Dunn Ozzie Buehrle situations...he was the last guy standing to take a lot of hits for an organization clearly in transition. 

Should have left after 2012.

That was so stupid he obviously didn't want to be here and a billion dollar enterprice was just like "please stay on".

[baseball_gal_aly]

Out of all of the Sox s%*# big contracts, Benintendi might be the worst of them all. At least Dunn hit HRs every now and then. At least Keuchel had a good pandemic season. At least Danks was good for the Sox before he got paid and his arm fell off. He has gone from barely useful in his first year to completely useless in his 2nd and there's still 3+ years left. 

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Out of all of the Sox s%*# big contracts, Benintendi might be the worst of them all. At least Dunn hit HRs every now and then. At least Keuchel had a good pandemic season. At least Danks was good for the Sox before he got paid and his arm fell off. He has gone from barely useful in his first year to completely useless in his 2nd and there's still 3+ years left. 

It was also clearly predictable that he'd struggle to produce any surplus value when he signed it, even assuming 10 million per WAR in the FA market. He's the sort of signing we love to make, overpay for middling players rather than real stars.

[Quin]

11 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Out of all of the Sox s%*# big contracts, Benintendi might be the worst of them all. At least Dunn hit HRs every now and then. At least Keuchel had a good pandemic season. At least Danks was good for the Sox before he got paid and his arm fell off. He has gone from barely useful in his first year to completely useless in his 2nd and there's still 3+ years left. 

Dunn is easily the best hitter in this lineup.

And he did have that All-Star season!

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

 

But for all the rest of the guys ... the white sox think that you develop by playing a lot of ball games. But that thesis has failed man. That's not enough, especially when you have so rid yourself of any players who know how to do it differently.

 

You know - the one thing that I want to give Getz credit for is that "Project Birmingham" experiment he did 2 years ago.

I'm a huge critic of the Sox's minor league development program basically treating the minors like a warehouse rather than a factory... but that Project Birmingham thing, to me, was the right approach. Identify things to work on during games, then shift your focus to developing your game through deliberate practice and training.

But generally, I completely agree with you on this quoted portion.

[JoeC]

32 minutes ago, Quin said:

Dunn is easily the best hitter in this lineup.

And he did have that All-Star season!

Plus he'd have been one of our better bullpen arms this year.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Plus he'd have been one of our better bullpen arms this year.

Or Colas...

[Iwritecode]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not sure what I'm doubling down on. Maybe you should follow the discussion. 

Your first claim:

On 4/23/2024 at 11:43 AM, WestEddy said:

I would remind you that 3 stars were all out, injured after 10 games

Your double-down after someone said it was not true:

On 4/23/2024 at 12:40 PM, WestEddy said:

Yours is the ridiculous argument. Robert, Moncada and Jimenez are the "stars". 

 

[bmags]

25 minutes ago, JoeC said:

You know - the one thing that I want to give Getz credit for is that "Project Birmingham" experiment he did 2 years ago.

I'm a huge critic of the Sox's minor league development program basically treating the minors like a warehouse rather than a factory... but that Project Birmingham thing, to me, was the right approach. Identify things to work on during games, then shift your focus to developing your game through deliberate practice and training.

But generally, I completely agree with you on this quoted portion.

Fair enough, but there seems to be a weird implication that their coaching across levels wasn't good enough, or wasn't communicating consistent enough. Well, Getz did not overhaul that staff. The turnover was no different than any other year.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, Iwritecode said:

Your double-down after someone said it was not true:

Yes, that's how conversation works. Normally, it takes evidence to get somebody to back off of what they believe to be true. 

[Quin]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Fair enough, but there seems to be a weird implication that their coaching across levels wasn't good enough, or wasn't communicating consistent enough. Well, Getz did not overhaul that staff. The turnover was no different than any other year.

He didn't have enough power to dictate coaches, stop judging him.

He still doesn't, for some reason, despite being the sole decision maker.

[GreenSox]

It is unfortunate that a player like Sosa doesn't come to the majors fundamentally sound.  This gives the Sox brass cover to not give him a decent opportunity to show if he can hit. 

That said, it shouldn't matter THIS season, when 2/3 of the team can't hit .200.

Sox history also suggests that even if he did come in fundamentally sound, they still wouldn't give his offense much rope.  And that's been a problem for a long time.

[baseball_gal_aly]

Look at what Sosa is doing in Charlotte and remember what he did with the Sox. 

Then apply that to every hitter that goes through Charlotte. Means nothing until they perform in Chicago. 

Edited April 25 by baseball_gal_aly

[WhiteSox2023]

6 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

Your first claim:

Your double-down after someone said it was not true:

 

If .750 OPS players are truly stars, the poor White Sox will never be able to field a competitive team.  Jerry and Getz like to sign .650 OPS guys who are a year past retirement on the cheap.

[Iwritecode]

16 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Yes, that's how conversation works. Normally, it takes evidence to get somebody to back off of what they believe to be true. 

That's why I provided it. You're welcome.

Edited April 25 by Iwritecode

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Watching Mendick then Sosa completely annihilate AAA pitching has me worried about Montgomery coming up too soon. 

 

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said:

Watching Mendick then Sosa completely annihilate AAA pitching has me worried about Montgomery coming up too soon. 

I suppose we'll have to wait for Monty to start annihilating AAA pitching before we worry about that. 

[fathom]

39 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I suppose we'll have to wait for Monty to start annihilating AAA pitching before we worry about that. 

Hard to annihilate if you don’t swing