JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, Bob Sacamano said: He came into that game out of the bullpen and tossed .2 innings. Ah that’s right. For some reason I thought he started that game. Anyways, the only thing that stopped him that game was injury. He was electric. Oh and he was also a 1.4 fWAR relief pitcher the season after he was drafted. I think that qualifies as an mlb contributor. There isn’t a single player drafted ahead of Crochet that has had more mlb success than garrett or that I would prefer to have over garrett moving forward. He’s absolutely a success story, no asterisk needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Which again is the point. Even the right pick can have set backs and failures, which is why the entire system is so important, and not just pointing to one guy who is NOW living up to his potential after so many years. And with his remaining control, is more "trade candidate" than "staple on the next playoff Sox team." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: And Andrew Vaughn still isn't playoff team good. Being on the team, vs being a part of a playoff caliber roster are two different things. Vaughn is still five years post draft, and the Sox still have a hole at 1b. Some of these guys will absolutely fail. Others will take years to live up to the hype. That's why talent accumulation is so important, and getting one basic major leaguer isn't moving the needle. Well obviously. This is a different argument altogether. If the Sox suck at drafting and development, then nothing matters. But, they haven’t since Shirley took over (I’m sure you’ll find an asterisk for this statement as well). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said: And with his remaining control, is more "trade candidate" than "staple on the next playoff Sox team." The only reason he’s not a staple is because the owner is a penny pincher as he prepares the team for sale. Any other decent owner and he’s a fixture of their starting rotation for years considering he just turned 25 lol. Regardless, if he turns into a couple significant future mlb contributors via trade that’s still a success story for the organization. Whether or not they capitalize upon those future returns is something different altogether. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Well obviously. This is a different argument altogether. If the Sox suck at drafting and development, then nothing matters. But, they haven’t since Shirley took over (I’m sure you’ll find an asterisk for this statement as well). It's not though. If you want to talk about a playoff team, that is way more than one major league star out of the last five years worth of drafts. Ultimately that is what this is all about. If you have a narrow window to contend, that isn't nearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, southsider2k5 said: It's not though. If you want to talk about a playoff team, that is way more than one major league star out of the last five years worth of drafts. Ultimately that is what this is all about. If you have a narrow window to contend, that isn't nearly enough. That’s the whole point. You don’t need a team full of stars. How many stars do the Guardians and Twins have in their everyday lineups? You need a couple stars and at least 4 or 5 other competent starters to compete in the AL Central. Shirley has had 4 drafts. His very first pick may have been the best pick in the entire draft. Cannon looks promising. A couple of his other picks are T50 mlb prospects. Several others are knocking at the door if they continue to progress. I’m encouraged by the last few drafts and I think they’ve developed a nice foundation to start from. It’s still going to take a few more drafts and several trades plus free agent signings to get competitive but I think they’ll be competitive by 2026/2027. Obviously, you disagree with that and in the camp of 2030+ along with many others. Let’s see how it plays out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: That’s the whole point. You don’t need a team full of stars. How many stars do the Guardians and Twins have in their everyday lineups? You need a couple stars and at least 4 or 5 other competent starters to compete in the AL Central. Shirley has had 4 drafts. His very first pick may have been the best pick in the entire draft. Cannon looks promising. A couple of his other picks are T50 mlb prospects. Several others are knocking at the door if they continue to progress. I’m encouraged by the last few drafts and I think they’ve developed a nice foundation to start from. It’s still going to take a few more drafts and several trades plus free agent signings to get competitive but I think they’ll be competitive by 2026/2027. Obviously, you disagree with that and in the camp of 2030+ along with many others. Let’s see how it plays out "A few more drafts" pushes Crochet out the door for sure, and Robert in his walk year, assuming we were to keep him and exercise him along the way. Those drafts also won't be helping for years after they are picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, southsider2k5 said: "A few more drafts" pushes Crochet out the door for sure, and Robert in his walk year, assuming we were to keep him and exercise him along the way. Those drafts also won't be helping for years after they are picked. Crochet and Robert will be traded. Presumably the prospects they’re traded for are significant mlb contributors by 2026/2027. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Crochet and Robert will be traded. Presumably the prospects they’re traded for are significant mlb contributors by 2026/2027. Hopefully. But whether they are actually good contributors is another discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I’m still waiting for our Steven Kwan. Who is the last player the Sox drafted and developed with a career major league line like this? .298 / .368 / .411 / .780 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Crochet and Robert will be traded. Presumably the prospects they’re traded for are significant mlb contributors by 2026/2027. Still "a few more drafts" is something that takes 5+ years to even start to shake out. Vaughn is 5 years ago. Crochet is 4 years ago. You also still have to get those kids here, get them to the majors and let them figure out if they will even make it, let alone have enough of them make it at a level where we can win. You mentioned the Twins? Let's. They went out and added a superstar contract at SS to move their build along. Do you see the Sox adding a Pete Alonzo to fix 1B or a Juan Soto to shore up the OF? And their worse season in recent years was a 73 win season, or approximately 30 wins better than where the Sox are on pace to be this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I’m still waiting for our Steven Kwan. Who is the last player the Sox drafted and developed with a career major league line like this? .298 / .368 / .411 / .780 Tim Anderson was that guy, at least until whatever happened after TLR got here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I mean, look at the O's. Their big turnaround started with the 2019 draft and getting Adley Rutschman as their cornerstone piece. Then they got Kjerstad, Cowser, Holliday and Bradfield. That's not counting Henderson (2019, 2nd rounder), Basallo (INT signing 2021), Norby (2nd rounder, 2021), Rodriguez (2018 1st), Westburg (Competitive Balance Pick). Yeah, their rotation has taken hits right now. But they are absolutely stuffed on offense and have close-to-ready prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Quin said: I mean, look at the O's. Their big turnaround started with the 2019 draft and getting Adley Rutschman as their cornerstone piece. Then they got Kjerstad, Cowser, Holliday and Bradfield. That's not counting Henderson (2019, 2nd rounder), Basallo (INT signing 2021), Norby (2nd rounder, 2021), Rodriguez (2018 1st), Westburg (Competitive Balance Pick). Yeah, their rotation has taken hits right now. But they are absolutely stuffed on offense and have close-to-ready prospects. To be fair.. Didn't they have 2 number 1 picks and then a number 2 as well? Along with all their free-bie picks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: To be fair.. Didn't they have 2 number 1 picks and then a number 2 as well? Along with all their free-bie picks? Still gotta hit on those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Quin said: I mean, look at the O's. Their big turnaround started with the 2019 draft and getting Adley Rutschman as their cornerstone piece. Then they got Kjerstad, Cowser, Holliday and Bradfield. That's not counting Henderson (2019, 2nd rounder), Basallo (INT signing 2021), Norby (2nd rounder, 2021), Rodriguez (2018 1st), Westburg (Competitive Balance Pick). Yeah, their rotation has taken hits right now. But they are absolutely stuffed on offense and have close-to-ready prospects. Take the O's another great example. You get a Jackson Holliday absolutely bust in his first trip to the majors despite being the #1 prospect in the game. Down he goes again. But the O's have enough juice in the system that they worked around it without blinking and are still in contention. Need pitching? Sure they do. Guess what they have a loaded list of guys they can move for them. Contrast that with Yoan busting after being the absolute #1 prospect in the game. The Sox couldn't replace him. Contrast that with if Colson Montgomery stalls out, we are now trying to push Gonzalez along, or we are looking at someone like Lenyn Sosa at SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: To be fair.. Didn't they have 2 number 1 picks and then a number 2 as well? Along with all their free-bie picks? And we can't do that now. That is more door that is closed to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, southsider2k5 said: Take the O's another great example. You get a Jackson Holliday absolutely bust in his first trip to the majors despite being the #1 prospect in the game. Down he goes again. But the O's have enough juice in the system that they worked around it without blinking and are still in contention. Need pitching? Sure they do. Guess what they have a loaded list of guys they can move for them. Contrast that with Yoan busting after being the absolute #1 prospect in the game. The Sox couldn't replace him. Contrast that with if Colson Montgomery stalls out, we are now trying to push Gonzalez along, or we are looking at someone like Lenyn Sosa at SS. And Lenyn was your possible stop-gap at 2B - except he's been holding down 3B while Ramos gets ready. Everyone loves to rag on Sosa, but his Charlotte numbers (even at the same age), dwarf Ramos. If any of Montgomery, Ramos or Gonzalez bust - you need Sosa, someone everyone wants to jettison because he's struggling at the major league level. But so far he's the only one to succeed at the Charlotte bandbox. This stuff takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Still "a few more drafts" is something that takes 5+ years to even start to shake out. Vaughn is 5 years ago. Crochet is 4 years ago. You also still have to get those kids here, get them to the majors and let them figure out if they will even make it, let alone have enough of them make it at a level where we can win. You mentioned the Twins? Let's. They went out and added a superstar contract at SS to move their build along. Do you see the Sox adding a Pete Alonzo to fix 1B or a Juan Soto to shore up the OF? And their worse season in recent years was a 73 win season, or approximately 30 wins better than where the Sox are on pace to be this year. Twins added a superstar that hasn’t played like a superstar with them. It’s not necessary (see Guardians). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 18 minutes ago, Quin said: I mean, look at the O's. Their big turnaround started with the 2019 draft and getting Adley Rutschman as their cornerstone piece. Then they got Kjerstad, Cowser, Holliday and Bradfield. That's not counting Henderson (2019, 2nd rounder), Basallo (INT signing 2021), Norby (2nd rounder, 2021), Rodriguez (2018 1st), Westburg (Competitive Balance Pick). Yeah, their rotation has taken hits right now. But they are absolutely stuffed on offense and have close-to-ready prospects. Sox latest rebuild started in 2023. So, yea, 2026/2027 is slightly aggressive (although I would argue the Orioles were already “competitive” in 2022) but 5 years from 2023 is 2028 so not crazy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Twins added a superstar that hasn’t played like a superstar with them. It’s not necessary (see Guardians). You mean the guy with an OPS 120 points higher than anyone on the Sox or with 5.2fWAR more than the entire position player roster combined, including double any one single players fWAR this year? Yeah, what we would ever do with that kind of a failure. And Cleveland has Jose Ramirez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 36 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Tim Anderson was that guy Plus or minus 55 points of OBP, anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, 4OCS said: Plus or minus 55 points of OBP, anyway Marcus Semien exists, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 49 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I’m still waiting for our Steven Kwan. Who is the last player the Sox drafted and developed with a career major league line like this? .298 / .368 / .411 / .780 Rikuu Nishida on the way - minus the power Edited June 24 by Rey21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I’d kill for an actual rumor right about now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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