CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 9 hours ago, GreenSox said: Well if it won't require a haul, it shouldn't be hard to move him at all. If it requires a haul, it looks like Seattle or bust to me. But I'm really suspicious of any willingness to sell low, given Pedro as manager; he was griping about him last season for no real reason (not running out a ground ball, as I recall); Pedro and his stupid "clubhouse" garbage. Plus, the Sox need an influx of real talent. And only Robert and Crochet can bring that. it's worth the risk to wait out for a haul. At least wait until Seattle checks in; they should be nearing the desperation point soon. Fedde can bring real talent too. Sox got real talent for some of the guys last deadline you might not have thought would bring it. Heck Aaron Civale just bought in a 20 year old SS hitting .325 . Admittedly I don't know much about the guy but that sounds like real talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 10 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: I don't think it will take some incredible "haul" to trade for Robert. They're very motivated to move him before he gets hurt again. Yeah, that one headline of “Sox actively seeking trade packages” makes it sound like they’re trying to get it done. At least that’s how I read it. Not just listening but dealing him for best offer closest to the deadline. Edited July 4 by Bob Sacamano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Th 1 hour ago, Falstaff said: Stating the obvious but trading your studs for other teams prospects points out how important drafting and developing players is. The Sox should go all in on being a small market team and follow Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Tampa Bay lead. In the words of Denny Green , " They are who we thought they were" ...whatever that means The issue is that the Sox don't get the perks of small market clubs. Can only draft in the top 6 one time instead of twice in a row, they don't receive extra competitive balance draft picks like small market clubs do and they don't get extra money to spend internationally. They're a large market club. They need to act like it. 6 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: You’re undervaluing him greatly. He was a 5 win player last year and his wRC+ is nearly identical now. His hip injury has definitely impacted his defense some this year and he clearly isn’t giving his all given how god awful this team is. IMO, he’s easily a 5 win player if healthy and even if you want to discount his value some for that factor, you need to account for the fact the value of a win isn’t linear and guys capable of putting 5+ win seasons are worth substantially more than the standard $9/WAR assumption most people use. You’re assuming good health though. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 33 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: You’re assuming good health though. Why? The same way that Crochet is beating expectations. Motivation to play on a winning team, for one...and for a manager he actually likes and respects. Boras Corp is certainly in his ear talk about how much more marketable he would be in a "real" large market giving his 100% and playing with charm/flair/charisma like when he first came stateside his first couple of MiLB seasons and was pretty close to "must see tv" and "Mike Trout Lite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Th The issue is that the Sox don't get the perks of small market clubs. Can only draft in the top 6 one time instead of twice in a row, they don't receive extra competitive balance draft picks like small market clubs do and they don't get extra money to spend internationally. They're a large market club. They need to act like it. They could actually combine the 2. JR certainly spends more than a lot of small market teams but it's wasteful spending. If they bulked up the infrastructure of scouting and development and weren't such babies about international free agency they could be a cross between the Rays/Brewers/ Guardians and teams that will spend more on payroll. Of course it's not going to happen that way because it's not the way JR has ever done it. He's more content just dangling the carrot of the mirage of being competitve while he now crys poor because of location and the high cost of top players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 58 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The same way that Crochet is beating expectations. Motivation to play on a winning team, for one...and for a manager he actually likes and respects. Boras Corp is certainly in his ear talk about how much more marketable he would be in a "real" large market giving his 100% and playing with charm/flair/charisma like when he first came stateside his first couple of MiLB seasons and was pretty close to "must see tv" and "Mike Trout Lite." Crochet would be even more valuable than he currently is if everyone assumed good health for him too. But Crochet is also more valuable when fully healthy than Robert. Robert had a career year and was essentially fully healthy last season and produced a ~5 WAR season. Crochet’s upside over a full season as a starter is 6-8 WAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 54 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Crochet would be even more valuable than he currently is if everyone assumed good health for him too. But Crochet is also more valuable when fully healthy than Robert. Robert had a career year and was essentially fully healthy last season and produced a ~5 WAR season. Crochet’s upside over a full season as a starter is 6-8 WAR. At this point, they would probably be equivalent values...because of Robert's age, how DOWN hitting is around MLB, his past competition for Gold Gloves (pure CFer when healthy). The fact of the matter is that Crochet just doesn't have a long enough track record of success as a starter AND a clean bill of health back through University of TN through today. Luis Robert, if HEALTHY, IS a legit 5 fWAR player, maybe even 6ish. They hardly grow on trees. Look at the money being thrown around for guys like Ohtani, Matsumoto and next will be ROKI SASAKI...although he will be coming at an earlier age so his very first MLB contract will be similar to Ohtani's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 3 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Th The issue is that the Sox don't get the perks of small market clubs. Can only draft in the top 6 one time instead of twice in a row, they don't receive extra competitive balance draft picks like small market clubs do and they don't get extra money to spend internationally. They're a large market club. They need to act like it. In the distance JR is reading this and laughing like crazy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Being a large market team shouldn't prohibit them from drafting and developing well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 24 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Being a large market team shouldn't prohibit them from drafting and developing well. JR: Whoa there Tiger. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: JR: Whoa there Tiger. As with every illness plaguing this org, it starts and stops with him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 https://www.mlb.com/padres/news/starting-pitchers-that-could-be-dealt-at-the-mlb-trade-deadline?partnerId=it-20240704-10366805-mlb-1-A&utm_id=it-20240704-10366805-mlb-1-A Crochet and Fedde top two on trade market, 11 other possibilities, including Bauer. Flaherty number 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 In a recent Athletic power rankings article, it predicted the Dodgers would get Robert and Fedde. They didn’t specifically state any hypothetical return but rather… “They’ll try to get Garrett Crochet instead, but they will be rebuffed. They’ll ask again and get re-rebuffed,” wrote The Athletic’s Grant Brisbee. “So Fedde it is, and they’ll be fine with that. He’s been excellent in his first season back from Korea.” “It will take a lot of shiny prospects and young players to make this happen, but don’t worry, the Dodgers will make more of them. Their only real cost will have to be the overtime pay to the people working the prospect assembly lines. The Dodgers don’t always go big, but this is one of the offseasons where they go a little nuts. You can’t have the offseason they had and limp into the postseason with on-hand roster fixes.” So, cool… Robert and Fedde for Lots of Shiny Prospects and Young Players. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, hi8is said: In a recent Athletic power rankings article, it predicted the Dodgers would get Robert and Fedde. They didn’t specifically state any hypothetical return but rather… “They’ll try to get Garrett Crochet instead, but they will be rebuffed. They’ll ask again and get re-rebuffed,” wrote The Athletic’s Grant Brisbee. “So Fedde it is, and they’ll be fine with that. He’s been excellent in his first season back from Korea.” “It will take a lot of shiny prospects and young players to make this happen, but don’t worry, the Dodgers will make more of them. Their only real cost will have to be the overtime pay to the people working the prospect assembly lines. The Dodgers don’t always go big, but this is one of the offseasons where they go a little nuts. You can’t have the offseason they had and limp into the postseason with on-hand roster fixes.” So, cool… Robert and Fedde for Lots of Shiny Prospects and Young Players. Got it. de Paula's one of the names that keeps coming up. The more one thinks about this current time frame of 2026 (starting on the path to .500)...just feels HIGHLY unlikely they're going to take a high school middle infielder on a 4-5 year timeframe. Wetherholt or Cags it is...or one of the two premium college pitchers, has to be one of those four guys. Griffin just feels highly unlikely...and when they try to save $1-1.5 million to reallocate, one just gets the feeling it will backfire based on 30 years of results with Sox 2nd round draft picks. Edited July 5 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 22 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Th The issue is that the Sox don't get the perks of small market clubs. Can only draft in the top 6 one time instead of twice in a row, they don't receive extra competitive balance draft picks like small market clubs do and they don't get extra money to spend internationally. They're a large market club. They need to act like it. How about Reinsdorf requesting special dispensation from Bob Manfred? It works during Lent for having corned beef and cabbage on St. Patrick's Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Perpetually rebuilding 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) On 7/4/2024 at 8:16 AM, Y2Jimmy0 said: The issue is that the Sox don't get the perks of small market clubs. Can only draft in the top 6 one time instead of twice in a row, they don't receive extra competitive balance draft picks like small market clubs do and they don't get extra money to spend internationally. They're a large market club. They need to act like it. Excellent post. The new CBA rules really expose those tightwad owners even more, IMO. They can no longer reap the benefits of a true tanking rebuild. Doing this while simultaneously saving $100-$200 million during a span of 3-4 years on super trim payrolls. Doing all this with a “goal” of top 5 draft picks annually. Obviously the lowest hanging fruit is the fact that Jerry will never spend on a superstar, blue-chip players. However, another major issue is his lack of investment in the scouting department, developmental system and data analyst. The White Sox are so behind, it’s embarrassing. White Sox fans have always questioned Jerry’s commitment to winning. But seriously, is there even a debate anymore? This is more of a business venture/niche hobby for him versus a the obvious goal of winning another championship. The White Sox are indeed a large market team. Don’t let Jerry fool you other wise behind his $2 billion net worth. Don’t let him cry poor and tell you that he can’t win in the current stadium. The White Sox have plenty of resources to act like a major market franchise. However, a choice is being made not to allocate those resources appropriately. I can’t wait for the day an owner of our favorite team puts winning as priority #1… Edited July 5 by GreatScott82 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 For pitchers, Fedde 2nd in the MLB in bWAR behind Lugo. 15th in fWAR though. Makes sense for how they weight them I suppose. I'm convinced he's going to get a decent haul given his contract and cost. Just keeps proving himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) @Y2Jimmy0 do you think Fedde's great half season of pitching is enough to command a decent haul for him? I wonder how far off it would be from a package for a pitcher who consistently put up these numbers, with the same contract. Edited July 5 by ron883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, ron883 said: @Y2Jimmy0 do you think Fedde's great half season of pitching is enough to command a decent haul for him? I wonder how far off it would be from a package for a pitcher who consistently put up these numbers, with the same contract. I would just add that it isn't just one half of a season. He had a huge year last year in Korea and made arsenal changes which contributed to it. When you look at this a a year and a half instead of half a season it has a different feel, plus he is CHEAP for next year will also help that value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Just now, southsider2k5 said: I would just add that it isn't just one half of a season. He had a huge year last year in Korea and made arsenal changes which contributed to it. When you look at this a a year and a half instead of half a season it has a different feel, plus he is CHEAP for next year will also help that value. Yep, I agree. Wasn't sure how others would value his stint in South Korea. But he's obviously completely reinvented himself and proven it in the MLB. Seems like he'd have great value with his contract and the luxury tax rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Fedde is going to bring back a very nice return. Not only is he having a great season, but he's under control for next season at $7,500,000 So not only is he producing like a front of the rotation pitcher, hes under contract for an absolute ridiculous price you would never be able to get otherwise. That equals a very nice return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 hours ago, GreatScott82 said: ... This is more of a business venture/niche hobby for him versus a the obvious goal of winning another championship... This was made painfully clear to me when he said "what else am I going to do? I dont play cards...etc" in his interview last year after he fired Kenny and Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said: This was made painfully clear to me when he said "what else am I going to do? I dont play cards...etc" in his interview last year after he fired Kenny and Rick. Same. Between that statement and his lack of effort in finding a more deserving general manager. Let’s not forget some of his other statements in the past: "Finish in second place every single year because your fans will say 'Wow, we got a shot. We're in it! ' But there's always the carrot left." (According to Dave Sampson) And this beauty of a statement: "Sports is a business of failure but the fact that you finish second or third or fourth it doesn’t mean you had a bad year." -Jerry Reinsdorf When casual fans at the stadium see a “sell the team” sign, there are plenty of reasons why. Edited July 5 by GreatScott82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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