Robbie Grossman traded to TEX for RHP Anthony Hoopii-Tuionetoa

[Nardiwashere]

Just now, Bob Sacamano said:

Fedde is on a 2-year deal and probably a trade chip this summer.

Yeah... I meant at the deadline or in the offseason if they think he will leave at the end of next year and they feel good about their ability to get pitching on FA market with Bannister, he could be dealt for prospect to fill an area of need and you can use that money to find the next Fedde. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Nardiwashere said:

Yeah... I meant at the deadline or in the offseason if they think he will leave at the end of next year and they feel good about their ability to get pitching on FA market with Bannister, he could be dealt for prospect to fill an area of need and you can use that money to find the next Fedde. 

I think there is zero chance that Fedde is here post trade deadline.  He should probably be traded for a bat given how many holes we have currently.

From my perspective, your 2025 rotation should be Crochet, three kids, and some sort of cheap vet in FA.  The rest of our money needs to go to the offense.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think there is zero chance that Fedde is here post trade deadline.  He should probably be traded for a bat given how many holes we have currently.

From my perspective, your 2025 rotation should be Crochet, three kids, and some sort of cheap vet in FA.  The rest of our money needs to go to the offense.

If he stays anywhere close to where he has been, he is as good as gone.

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think there is zero chance that Fedde is here post trade deadline.  He should probably be traded for a bat given how many holes we have currently.

From my perspective, your 2025 rotation should be Crochet, three kids, and some sort of cheap vet in FA.  The rest of our money needs to go to the offense.

Sorry, you'll get Crochet, Nick Nastrini, Tanner Banks as an opener, Paul DeJong converted to a pitcher, and Clevinger.

[Nardiwashere]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think there is zero chance that Fedde is here post trade deadline.  He should probably be traded for a bat given how many holes we have currently.

From my perspective, your 2025 rotation should be Crochet, three kids, and some sort of cheap vet in FA.  The rest of our money needs to go to the offense.

Makes sense... and my point is they will have money to spend. 

When you have a CF, young pitching coming up, kids at 3B, SS, C, only one bad contract in Benitendi, and don't devote $90 million to a bunch of RPs, there's going to be money to spend... especially if you can trade Fedde, Kopech, etc. for, let's say, a future starter in RF.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

Makes sense... and my point is they will have money to spend. 

When you have a CF, young pitching coming up, kids at 3B, SS, C, only one bad contract in Benitendi, and don't devote $90 million to a bunch of RPs, there's going to be money to spend... especially if you can trade Fedde, Kopech, etc. for, let's say, a future starter in RF.

There will certainly be money to spend.  The challenge is twofold though.  Are there enough quality free agents out there to sign and will we be the ones to win the sweepstakes.  And I’m not talking about the Soto’s of the world, but the next couple tiers down.  Last I checked, this upcoming class didn’t look great from a positional player perspective.

[baseball_gal_aly]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If he stays anywhere close to where he has been, he is as good as gone.

Fedde has a FIP over 4.50 so I'd expect some regression. xFIP and ERA are close though. 

Edited May 9 by baseball_gal_aly

[Nardiwashere]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There will certainly be money to spend.  The challenge is twofold though.  Are there enough quality free agents out there to sign and will we be the ones to win the sweepstakes.  And I’m not talking about the Soto’s of the world, but the next couple tiers down.  Last I checked, this upcoming class didn’t look great from a positional player perspective.

That's the key.  I don't hold a guy like DeJong against the new front office because he was clearly a placeholder for a lost season.  But they'll need to show they can identify position players in that price range you mentioned starting next year.  The FA class doesn't excite me either but there are always guys. 

Let's say we find one 1B, DH, RF, 2B via deadline trade and then $40 mil to find the other three in this list. 

I don't think it makes the Sox contenders but they should be able to field a team that is respectable.  

First base: Paul Goldschmidt, Pete Alonso, Rhys Hoskins (opt-out), Anthony Rizzo (club option), Josh Bell, Rowdy Tellez, Christian Walker, Ryan O'Hearn, Carlos Santana

Second base: Gleyber Torres, Brandon Lowe (club option), Ha-Seong Kim (mutual option), Whit Merrifield (club option), Wilmer Flores (player option/club option), Jorge Polanco (club option), Brandon Crawford, Brandon Drury, Adam Frazier (mutual option)

Shortstop: Willy Adames, Tim Anderson, Miguel Rojas (club option), Amed Rosario, Paul DeJong, Garrett Hampson, Joey Wendle

Outfield: Juan Soto, Cody Bellinger (opt-out), Alex Verdugo, Michael Conforto, Joey Gallo, Tyler O’Neill, Joc Pederson (mutual option), Anthony Santander, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (opt-out), Teoscar Hernández, Aaron Hicks, Andrew McCutchen, Kevin Kiermaier, Max Kepler, Harrison Bader, Mark Canha, Mitch Haniger (opt-out), Hunter Renfroe (player option), Manuel Margot (mutual option), Michael A. Taylor, Charlie Blackmon, Adam Duvall, Randal Grichuk (mutual option), Jason Heyward, Jurickson Profar

 

[Boopa1219]

1 hour ago, Nardiwashere said:

That's the key.  I don't hold a guy like DeJong against the new front office because he was clearly a placeholder for a lost season.  But they'll need to show they can identify position players in that price range you mentioned starting next year.  The FA class doesn't excite me either but there are always guys. 

Let's say we find one 1B, DH, RF, 2B via deadline trade and then $40 mil to find the other three in this list. 

I don't think it makes the Sox contenders but they should be able to field a team that is respectable.  

First base: Paul Goldschmidt, Pete Alonso, Rhys Hoskins (opt-out), Anthony Rizzo (club option), Josh Bell, Rowdy Tellez, Christian Walker, Ryan O'Hearn, Carlos Santana

Second base: Gleyber Torres, Brandon Lowe (club option), Ha-Seong Kim (mutual option), Whit Merrifield (club option), Wilmer Flores (player option/club option), Jorge Polanco (club option), Brandon Crawford, Brandon Drury, Adam Frazier (mutual option)

Shortstop: Willy Adames, Tim Anderson, Miguel Rojas (club option), Amed Rosario, Paul DeJong, Garrett Hampson, Joey Wendle

Outfield: Juan Soto, Cody Bellinger (opt-out), Alex Verdugo, Michael Conforto, Joey Gallo, Tyler O’Neill, Joc Pederson (mutual option), Anthony Santander, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (opt-out), Teoscar Hernández, Aaron Hicks, Andrew McCutchen, Kevin Kiermaier, Max Kepler, Harrison Bader, Mark Canha, Mitch Haniger (opt-out), Hunter Renfroe (player option), Manuel Margot (mutual option), Michael A. Taylor, Charlie Blackmon, Adam Duvall, Randal Grichuk (mutual option), Jason Heyward, Jurickson Profar

 

Now, don’t sign anyone with a career walk rate under 8%

Edited May 9 by Boopa1219

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

Now, don’t sign anyone without a career walk rate under 8%

How do you think the Sox get all these amazing deals for veteran players?

[Bob Sacamano]

49 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There will certainly be money to spend.  The challenge is twofold though.  Are there enough quality free agents out there to sign and will we be the ones to win the sweepstakes.  And I’m not talking about the Soto’s of the world, but the next couple tiers down.  Last I checked, this upcoming class didn’t look great from a positional player perspective.

No, it’s not a very good free agent class. Go get Alonso though. f*** it.

Next year should be better than this year but I still wouldn’t expect them to be competitive.

Edited May 9 by Bob Sacamano

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Nardiwashere said:

Yeah... I meant at the deadline or in the offseason if they think he will leave at the end of next year and they feel good about their ability to get pitching on FA market with Bannister, he could be dealt for prospect to fill an area of need and you can use that money to find the next Fedde. 

Rinse. Repeat.

 

White Sox: Erick Fedde, top-of-the-rotation starter
There’s no real surprise Fedde has found some level of pitching success through the early part of May when looking at how the right-hander reinvented himself during the 2023 season with a 20-6 record, 2.00 ERA and 209 strikeouts over 180 1/3 innings for NC Dinos as the KBO’s top pitcher. But even Fedde was interested in how his new repertoire would play in a Major League return, and entering his series-opening start against the Guardians Thursday, he’s been the most consistent pitcher on the White Sox staff. Fedde has 41 strikeouts over 36 innings and a 3.46 ERA, not to mention working into the ninth inning for the first time in his career on April 28 vs. Tampa Bay. He looks to be a White Sox building block in the latest rebuild or a solid trade option. -- Scott Merkin

[nrockway]

6 hours ago, Quin said:

Sorry, you'll get Crochet, Nick Nastrini, Tanner Banks as an opener, Paul DeJong converted to a pitcher, and Clevinger.

I unironically want to watch a rotation of Crochet, Eder, Bush, rushed Schultz and Patrick Corbin. In lieu of signing Patrick Corbin, I like your converted pitcher idea, except let's do Colas since he's supposed to be a two way player and fits with the left-handed theme. 

[wrathofhahn]

The only money we should be spending is on placeholders.

Here is the problem with spending money on long-term guys: this team is straight trash, and we all know the way the MLB works all the value on FA contracts is on the front end. Why sign someone who is just going to be eating money by the time we are theoretically going to be good?

I say theoretically because I have no confidence in this FO at all. The guys I wanted to go after in the offseason are the guys with decreased value you throw in a prospect not worth much buy a lottery ticket and hope they bounce back into something valuable to the club or something to be moved at the deadline.

O'NEILL, VERDUGO, KELENIC

We basically wasted this year and signed guys that are trash that had no upside to bounce back at all with the exception of pham who I have always liked. Grossman, Maldonado. DeJong.

These guys had little to no upside. We wasted money and a ML roster spot on guys who were unlikely to bounce back and gain any sort of value. That is why I won't applaud the trade it was a bad signing and waste of an opportunity and we got trash for trash. What is there to like?

[T R U]

4 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

The only money we should be spending is on placeholders.

Here is the problem with spending money on long-term guys: this team is straight trash, and we all know the way the MLB works all the value on FA contracts is on the front end. Why sign someone who is just going to be eating money by the time we are theoretically going to be good?

I say theoretically because I have no confidence in this FO at all. The guys I wanted to go after in the offseason are the guys with decreased value you throw in a prospect not worth much buy a lottery ticket and hope they bounce back into something valuable to the club or something to be moved at the deadline.

O'NEILL, VERDUGO, KELENIC

We basically wasted this year and signed guys that are trash that had no upside to bounce back at all with the exception of pham who I have always liked. Grossman, Maldonado. DeJong.

These guys had little to no upside. We wasted money and a ML roster spot on guys who were unlikely to bounce back and gain any sort of value. That is why I won't applaud the trade it was a bad signing and waste of an opportunity and we got trash for trash. What is there to like?

We got a 23 year old bullpen prospect for a 34 year old OFer with no future here. Whats not to like about that?

The prospect, 3.15 ERA and 12.8 K rate in 103 minor league innings. While he most likely never makes it, its a wonderful return for 71 at bats of Robbie Grossman on a rebuilding team.

[vilehoopster]

21 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think there is zero chance that Fedde is here post trade deadline.  He should probably be traded for a bat given how many holes we have currently.

From my perspective, your 2025 rotation should be Crochet, three kids, and some sort of cheap vet in FA.  The rest of our money needs to go to the offense.

Yes, some sort of Cheap vet . . . . I know, like Fedde. 

Let's keep our nice things. Why give them away?

[T R U]

8 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Yes, some sort of Cheap vet . . . . I know, like Fedde. 

Let's keep our nice things. Why give them away?

Well for one, this team will still be rebuilding next season. Erick Fedde is only signed through next season.

If he keeps this up, through this season and next season as a front of the rotation type starter. The White Sox, in no way shape or form, are going to resign a 33 year old SP to the contract that his performance will demand.

If he keeps this up for this season only and then stinks next season, your value on him will crater and then you get nothing and he still doesn't help this franchise moving forward.

The only logical outcome here is to hope he keeps this up over the next two months, and then he is traded for a nice package of prospects that will help this team in the future when they expect to be good again.

[WhiteSox2023]

19 minutes ago, T R U said:

Well for one, this team will still be rebuilding next season. Erick Fedde is only signed through next season.

If he keeps this up, through this season and next season as a front of the rotation type starter. The White Sox, in no way shape or form, are going to resign a 33 year old SP to the contract that his performance will demand.

If he keeps this up for this season only and then stinks next season, your value on him will crater and then you get nothing and he still doesn't help this franchise moving forward.

The only logical outcome here is to hope he keeps this up over the next two months, and then he is traded for a nice package of prospects that will help this team in the future when they expect to be good again.

I don’t even know why this needs to be explained.

[T R U]

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I don’t even know why this needs to be explained.

Because some people can't see/understand the big picture. If you want any chance at sustained success then trading players like this now is the only realistic way that this franchise can build something.

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Yes, some sort of Cheap vet . . . . I know, like Fedde. 

Let's keep our nice things. Why give them away?

Because Fedde won't be here the next time the team is good, and whoever we get for him might.

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Because Fedde won't be here the next time the team is good, and whoever we get for him might.

Pretty simple understanding really.

[Timmy U]

Trading vets for prospects is a good idea. No problem there.  But it's not the best way to build an organization. AJ Preller is fine trading away prospects because he knows there's another draft and International signing period coming around to restock. The Sox have to get into the top group in identifying and developing players in order to stay competitive. You can't count on trading Quintana for Dylan Cease then trading Dylan Cease for prospects who you then trade for younger prospects ad infinitum.  Eventually, you have to sign your own guys.  I am confident in the Sox recent drafts, unlike the drafts from 2016-2020, but the proof is in the eating.

[Harry Chappas]

2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Trading vets for prospects is a good idea. No problem there.  But it's not the best way to build an organization. AJ Preller is fine trading away prospects because he knows there's another draft and International signing period coming around to restock. The Sox have to get into the top group in identifying and developing players in order to stay competitive. You can't count on trading Quintana for Dylan Cease then trading Dylan Cease for prospects who you then trade for younger prospects ad infinitum.  Eventually, you have to sign your own guys.  I am confident in the Sox recent drafts, unlike the drafts from 2016-2020, but the proof is in the eating.

Rick Hahn signed his guys they were bad and he was bad.   Hopefully that changes. 

Fedde is too old to look at as more than a trade chip. 

 

[SouthSideGeorgia]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:50 PM, southsider2k5 said:

In theory, by next year, the payroll should drop enough to cover the drops in revenue and leave SOMETHING to be spent.  They have 98 million the books for 25 IF they exercise everyone, including Moncada (lol), ILoy (lol), Stassi (lol) and Maldanado (lol), they can actually get down to about $50 million without them.  If they want to spend, they can.

I’ve got the 2025 Sox around $74 million in payroll. Assumes no major or minor free agent signings, option buyouts on Moncada, Eloy… trades this year of Fedde. Estimated arbitration numbers are considered, and farm players load up the gaps on the 26-man. 
 

So obviously, not too realistic but the best I can do at this point to estimate. Also, the $74 million includes Brebbia and his $6million. They may not take the option or he could get traded this season maybe. Includes Kopech who could be gone. His arbitration number should be lower as a reliever next year, I assume. And I have Andrew Vaughn as the 26th man and his arbitration number (as much as I wanted to leave him off). 
 

All that said, I can see us as low as $60 million if the belt is very tight and we refrain from signing even placeholders. 

[SouthSideGeorgia]

Extremely preliminary 2025 payroll, with a ton of assumptions. Laugh away… ??

I wouldn’t fixate much on the lineup, since I went high and assumed any Farm player was making about $800k. 
 

Edited May 10 by SouthSideGeorgia