Brad Keller DFA

[WestEddy]

23 minutes ago, Quin said:

Getz talked BIG about building a culture and being a place that players would  want to sign. But right now the offense sucks, the defense sucks, the culture is Pedro's FASTs culture sponsored by Martin Maldonado, and Chris Getz can't decide who he wants to be starting a game every single day. He's like an inverse AKME, but somehow worse.

Can you list out all the big-name players who become free agents in the middle of May? Seems like Getz can decide on who should be starting every game. They submit a lineup every one of them. 

And online "influencers" pretending to be crazy shocked at how many players have been on the team so far this year really doesn't mean anything to me. They had 3 major injuries to start the season they've scrambled to fill. We knew they would churn through the pitching staff as they evaluated them in live games. None of this is surprising, and none of it fits into the desperate "panic" narrative. 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, here's Sportrac's data of all transaction since opening day. If Getz was so "panicked", I'd expect him to be way ahead of every other team. Instead, while on the higher end of all transactions, he's right in there with the Mets, Brewers, Dodgers, Cubs, Astros, Rangers and Marlins. Some teams have been lucky with injuries. I would say the Sox weren't. And they started the season with the entire starting lineup being injured, in a horrible slump, or playing at the expected low level (Maldonado). They also knew, going into the season, they had a rotation and bullpen full of reclamation projects. 

What online hecklers might call panic, professionals call "aggressive" or "proactive". 

white sox 47
yanks 29
d-backs 27
orioles 25
braves 15
red sox 27
cubs 42
reds 15
guardians 16
rockies 11
tigers 19
astros 37
royals 14
angels 30
dodgers 43
marlins 46
brewers 44
twins 33
mets 48
athletics 37
phillies 14
pirates 28
padres 23
giants 41
mariners 21
cards 19
rays 24
rangers 37
blue jays 16
nats 21

So you basically proved yourself wrong, and then tried to claim victory, even with cherrypicking one stat while ignoring the composition of those moves to do it.  The fun part is while you tried to equate teams with 10-15% less moves were "right in there" with the Sox. Even by this measure they have had this many transactions while not having had anywhere near the number of forced transactions (injuries) as most of the "right there" teams.

[Chicago White Sox]

Let’s hope Getz does the smart thing and uses this spot towards developing an potential future piece rather than hoping we hit the lottery on some retread.

[WestEddy]

35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Because unlike you, I deal in reality.

Using the fangraphs transactions tracker:

-No team has had more different hitters on their roster than the White Sox at 22.  The only team tied with the Sox has 6 on the IL currently (sfg)  the Sox only have 3.  Pitchers weren't show for some reason.

-since the end of the 23 season, no team has as many transactions as the Sox (264).  The closest team has 22 less. (242/nym)

-Sox lead mlb in dfa's (21), including Keller today.

-Sox lead mlb in demotions (41)

-Sox lead mlb in promotions (44)

Any other imaginary statements you'd like to be proven wrong on?

 

I'm sorry. I don't see an established Fangraphs panic-meter that registers this many moves as "surely panic". You calling it panic is your opinion, which isn't fact. 

Last year's team sucked. Any GM would have "panicked" and cleaned house. Everybody here wanted a new GM hired so he could "panic" and fire every single scout, player and front office employee. Y'all "panic" every day, and want JR to grab his chest and keel over so that a new team of owners could take over, "panic" and clean house. 

Seriously, it's a dumb narrative. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

I'm sorry. I don't see an established Fangraphs panic-meter that registers this many moves as "surely panic". You calling it panic is your opinion, which isn't fact. 

Last year's team sucked. Any GM would have "panicked" and cleaned house. Everybody here wanted a new GM hired so he could "panic" and fire every single scout, player and front office employee. Y'all "panic" every day, and want JR to grab his chest and keel over so that a new team of owners could take over, "panic" and clean house. 

Seriously, it's a dumb narrative. 

When facts don't support,  get personal. 

My work here is done when you start having a meltdown because you have no facts.

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So you basically proved yourself wrong, and then tried to claim victory, even with cherrypicking one stat while ignoring the composition of those moves to do it.  The fun part is while you tried to equate teams with 10-15% less moves were "right in there" with the Sox. Even by this measure they have had this many transactions while not having had anywhere near the number of forced transactions (injuries) as most of the "right there" teams.

I don't accept your premise that a GM churning through roster candidates is "panic". I didn't cherry pick. I listed all transactions. Look, you let trolls rail on all day every day, spouting the most asinine BS. Literally pretending that non-prospects added 5 mph to their fastball just by walking out the door. But you get your ass handed to you on one stupid, wrong narrative, and now I have to submit a doctoral thesis, which you'll strawman to death, anyway. 

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

When facts don't support,  get personal. 

My work here is done when you start having a meltdown because you have no facts.

I really don't understand what you're considering to be personal. Is "panic-meter" your family's nick name for you?

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Let’s hope Getz does the smart thing and uses this spot towards developing an potential future piece rather than hoping we hit the lottery on some retread.

Woodford and Kuhl are the only non-prospect starters in the organization, right now, beyond Soroka. I'd like to see Shuster get the next nod. Nastrini and Cannon could stabilize at AAA before they start replacing Clev, Flex and Fedde. And, I guess, Crochet, as some point. 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, here's Sportrac's data of all transaction since opening day. If Getz was so "panicked", I'd expect him to be way ahead of every other team. Instead, while on the higher end of all transactions, he's right in there with the Mets, Brewers, Dodgers, Cubs, Astros, Rangers and Marlins. Some teams have been lucky with injuries. I would say the Sox weren't. And they started the season with the entire starting lineup being injured, in a horrible slump, or playing at the expected low level (Maldonado). They also knew, going into the season, they had a rotation and bullpen full of reclamation projects. 

What online hecklers might call panic, professionals call "aggressive" or "proactive". 

white sox 47
yanks 29
d-backs 27
orioles 25
braves 15
red sox 27
cubs 42
reds 15
guardians 16
rockies 11
tigers 19
astros 37
royals 14
angels 30
dodgers 43
marlins 46
brewers 44
twins 33
mets 48
athletics 37
phillies 14
pirates 28
padres 23
giants 41
mariners 21
cards 19
rays 24
rangers 37
blue jays 16
nats 21

And unfortunately it seems practically every "aggressive" or "proactive" move he's made has been either bringing in over-the-hill; injury prone, has-been's and stiffs or replaced said garbage with more garbage.

That's some way to run a "professional" organization isn't it?

I'll cut Getz slack in one area though, he works for and is under orders from JR, which probably explains some but not all of the bizarre moves. 

[WestEddy]

1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said:

And unfortunately it seems practically every "aggressive" or "proactive" move he's made has been either bringing in over-the-hill; injury prone, has-been's and stiffs or replaced said garbage with more garbage.

That's some way to run a "professional" organization isn't it?

I'll cut Getz slack in one area though, he works for and is under orders from JR, which probably explains some but not all of the bizarre moves. 

And I'm all for it. I really don't like calling dudes who have devoted their lives to playing a sport and have not broken through to major success "garbage", just as I wouldn't do that for salesmen or even journalists. 

But why not? Everybody expected this team to be bad, this year. Why not churn players through, give them a week of starts at AAA to see if they're viable, or teachable, then see if they can produce and be flipped? This season is really about bringing Crochet along. Conducting the Fedde/Flexen/Soroka experiment. Stabilizing the clubhouse with defense guys like Lopez and DeJong. Churn the bullpen looking for viable trade options and longer term pieces. Bring Sheets and Vaughn along to see if they're viable major league starters. Create opportunities for guys like Lee, Ramos, Nastrini, League, Cannon, Thorpe. If you catch a 2-3 year player like Corey Julks - score! If you catch a 2-3 month player like Pham? Enjoy the bullpen arm he brings back. Wait out Moncada, Benintendi and Eloy, either trade or DFA, or turn Benny into something plausible for a couple years. Nurture Robert for the next "window", or for a haul of prospects. 

Maybe I'm a weirdo. I like seasons like this as much as the 90 win competitive seasons. It's all in what you look to get out of it. 

[Soxfest]

Getz so far over his head, his roster building is laughable!

[chitownsportsfan]

Chris Getz trying not to lose 120 games:

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, here's Sportrac's data of all transaction since opening day. If Getz was so "panicked", I'd expect him to be way ahead of every other team. Instead, while on the higher end of all transactions, he's right in there with the Mets, Brewers, Dodgers, Cubs, Astros, Rangers and Marlins. Some teams have been lucky with injuries. I would say the Sox weren't. And they started the season with the entire starting lineup being injured, in a horrible slump, or playing at the expected low level (Maldonado). They also knew, going into the season, they had a rotation and bullpen full of reclamation projects. 

What online hecklers might call panic, professionals call "aggressive" or "proactive". 

white sox 47
yanks 29
d-backs 27
orioles 25
braves 15
red sox 27
cubs 42
reds 15
guardians 16
rockies 11
tigers 19
astros 37
royals 14
angels 30
dodgers 43
marlins 46
brewers 44
twins 33
mets 48
athletics 37
phillies 14
pirates 28
padres 23
giants 41
mariners 21
cards 19
rays 24
rangers 37
blue jays 16
nats 21

The Sox have been "unlucky" with injuries for going on 3+ years now.

At some point, it goes beyond the training/medical staff and into the psychological with some of these situations.

And you're never going to see any team in MLB history in last place (overall) at nearly the 1/3rd pole of the season described as "proactive" vs. reactive.

They are being reactive simply because the measures they'd adopted to "hold down the fort" during the first half of the season (while buying time for the youngsters) simply weren't good enough.

 

 

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The Sox have been "unlucky" with injuries for going on 3+ years now.

At some point, it goes beyond the training/medical staff and into the psychological with some of these situations.

And you're never going to see any team in MLB history in last place (overall) at nearly the 1/3rd pole of the season described as "proactive" vs. reactive.

They are being reactive simply because the measures they'd adopted to "hold down the fort" during the first half of the season (while buying time for the youngsters) simply weren't good enough.

 

 

And they're adjusting. Until you can show me some "panic-o-meter" at fangraphs or baseball prospectus, it's all opinion. People here are calling for a guy to be DFAed after 2 bad games. That's inciteful observations. But when Getz DFAs the same player after 14 games, it's panic? LOL. 

[greg775]

Thank goodness. Acquiring him is a HUGE fireable offense. Getz should be truly embarrassed thinking this guy should be on the roster. Thank gawd he gawn.

[WhiteSox2023]

If you watched each and every one of Getz’s roster moves, it’s pretty obvious he panicked.  Trading talent for Bailey Horn and then having to DFA Horn is one example.  He started out not wanting to cut bad veteran relievers loose to later cutting both these same vets as well as prospects loose to make room on the 40-man roster for new players.

Edited May 20 by WhiteSox2023

[Snopek]

10 hours ago, WestEddy said:

And they started the season with the entire starting lineup being injured, in a horrible slump, or playing at the expected low level (Maldonado).

The lines can get pretty blurry between “horrible slump” and “playing at the expected low level.”

And if the latter group only includes Maldonado and none of Lopez, Pillar, Dejong, Fletcher, Shewmake, Benintendi and Vaughn, I’d say that’s a massive miscalculation on Getz’s part.

Horrible slump implies throwing your hands up and saying “What’re you gonna do” when there is significant reason to believe a player is much better than what they are currently showing.

I don’t think any of the guys I mentioned can confidently fit into that category.

[Nardiwashere]

They are s%*#. I want the roster turned over.  Why would anyone want the team to stick with bad players?  You pick guys up, drop guys, see who clicks, see who doesn’t.  These are all dudes on the margins.  He’s not DFA’ing anyone of significance.  Why does anyone care?

To pretend that it’s a mystery what Getz is doing or saying DFAing some scrub like Keller is being disingenuous.  

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, WestEddy said:

And they're adjusting. Until you can show me some "panic-o-meter" at fangraphs or baseball prospectus, it's all opinion. People here are calling for a guy to be DFAed after 2 bad games. That's inciteful observations. But when Getz DFAs the same player after 14 games, it's panic? LOL. 

I am going to say this much.  One minute you literally pulled out the transaction meter as a measure of how the Sox are just like other teams, and then when those transactions were dove into, then you instantly disowned it because it went against your narrative.

[bmags]

45 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

They are s%*#. I want the roster turned over.  Why would anyone want the team to stick with bad players?  You pick guys up, drop guys, see who clicks, see who doesn’t.  These are all dudes on the margins.  He’s not DFA’ing anyone of significance.  Why does anyone care?

To pretend that it’s a mystery what Getz is doing or saying DFAing some scrub like Keller is being disingenuous.  

I don't think anyone disagrees, it's just we are turning over with players that are on the retirement side of their career, not waivers of players who have yet to have a chance and may pan out.

The only thing you could argue is maybe they were more assured with a Keller spot start of not stressing their bullpen...but who cares?

[zisk]

One mans opinion. Drew Thorpe should be through with minor league baseball. He might as well get up here and begin his MLB

career. There will be ups and downs. He will have a losing record with this motley crew behind him. But he's earned it. Let's give

the fan base a glimpse of the future.

[T R U]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't think anyone disagrees, it's just we are turning over with players that are on the retirement side of their career, not waivers of players who have yet to have a chance and may pan out.

The only thing you could argue is maybe they were more assured with a Keller spot start of not stressing their bullpen...but who cares?

Seriously, if you're going to churn the roster then try to find under performers who could reach a desirable ceiling or younger guys that have fallen out of favor with their current team. As much as I disliked trading a lottery ticket type prospect for Julks, at least he isn't washed veteran on the downside of their career. You can at least see a scenario where you could get a 4th OFer out of him for a few years.

We are just rotating through garbage like Flexen, Keller, and Soroka who have no future here and have no value. Hell just let Nastrini and Cannon take their lumps and get experience. I would love to see them start adding some project players through the waiver wire. Maybe they have tried, I don't know, but the constant jettison of young players for washed veterans aint it.

[southsider2k5]

53 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

They are s%*#. I want the roster turned over.  Why would anyone want the team to stick with bad players?  You pick guys up, drop guys, see who clicks, see who doesn’t.  These are all dudes on the margins.  He’s not DFA’ing anyone of significance.  Why does anyone care?

To pretend that it’s a mystery what Getz is doing or saying DFAing some scrub like Keller is being disingenuous.  

I think that is kind of the point though.  Did we really need to see five minutes of Brad Keller to know that he sucks?  Did we really need to see Rafael Ortega hit like Martin Maldonado to know he sucks?  If we are going to use sorry vets to hold places until the kids are ready, do it.  Let them suck.  But then two seconds later we are churning kids for a start or two like they are going to come up and be stars right away.  If we are going to roster kids, let them play and learn on the job by occasionally getting their asses kicked.  Either let them learn, or protect them.  This thing of being all over the place isn't helping anyone.

[T R U]

5 minutes ago, zisk said:

One mans opinion. Drew Thorpe should be through with minor league baseball. He might as well get up here and begin his MLB

career. There will be ups and downs. He will have a losing record with this motley crew behind him. But he's earned it. Let's give

the fan base a glimpse of the future.

Yeah, kind of hard to argue with this now. He has a 1.49 ERA through 72 AA innings. I think hes about as ready as hes going to get.

[Chicago White Sox]

59 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

They are s%*#. I want the roster turned over.  Why would anyone want the team to stick with bad players?  You pick guys up, drop guys, see who clicks, see who doesn’t.  These are all dudes on the margins.  He’s not DFA’ing anyone of significance.  Why does anyone care?

To pretend that it’s a mystery what Getz is doing or saying DFAing some scrub like Keller is being disingenuous.  

I think the question is why waste playing time on garbage like Keller in the first place?  At some point we have to start committing innings to our young starters.  The one strength this system has is SP prospects in the upper minors.  We’re going to have like seven prospects competing for like three or four rotation spots next year in Nastrini, Cannon, Thorpe, Iriarte, Eder, Bush, & Adams.  Why not start giving them some of these starts so evaluations can begin?  There is going to be a learning curve at the major league level and adaption will take time.  Let’s see what Nastrini has to offer at minimum so we can get a pretty good sense if he has be a long-term rotation stalwart or more of a bullpen guy.  No need to cram that initial evaluation into a two month post deadline period because we’re hoping to snag a minor league relief prospect for crap like Keller.