Brad Keller DFA

[southsider2k5]

Like this is a perfect example of what I am talking about here.  We cut Ortega to get Fletcher on the roster, and now we aren't playing him.  That isn't good for his development, his confidence, and it sure doesn't help this franchise at all for the future.  He needs to be playing daily, somewhere.  If he isn't ready for Chicago, why is he here?

And before someone states that the manager is the problem, the GM is his boss.  Either the GM tells the manager to get Fletcher into the line up, or he is OK with him not being there.  Why the hell does Andrew Benitendi need to be in the line up every day with his .500 OPS and terrible glove?  Gavin Sheets has hit for a .582 over the last two weeks anyway, and it still one of the worst defenders in baseball.  Fletcher's season OPS is actually higher than 10D, and not much less than what Sheets has put up the last couple of weeks at .548. 

Remember when we were fixing the defense for the pitchers so they would want to come here?  Yeah, what happened to that plan? 

[WhiteSox2023]

46 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like this is a perfect example of what I am talking about here.  We cut Ortega to get Fletcher on the roster, and now we aren't playing him.  That isn't good for his development, his confidence, and it sure doesn't help this franchise at all for the future.  He needs to be playing daily, somewhere.  If he isn't ready for Chicago, why is he here?

And before someone states that the manager is the problem, the GM is his boss.  Either the GM tells the manager to get Fletcher into the line up, or he is OK with him not being there.  Why the hell does Andrew Benitendi need to be in the line up every day with his .500 OPS and terrible glove?  Gavin Sheets has hit for a .582 over the last two weeks anyway, and it still one of the worst defenders in baseball.  Fletcher's season OPS is actually higher than 10D, and not much less than what Sheets has put up the last couple of weeks at .548. 

Remember when we were fixing the defense for the pitchers so they would want to come here?  Yeah, what happened to that plan? 

Grifol is a moron.

”Beni is a consistent pillar in our lineup.”

Yeah, cuz they can’t cut him cuz of his obscene contract.  It makes no sense to call up a guy like Fletcher if you aren’t going to play him consistently.  Figure out if he can play or if he’s a bust like most of Getz’s other acquisitions.

Edited May 21 by WhiteSox2023

[Snopek]

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like this is a perfect example of what I am talking about here.  We cut Ortega to get Fletcher on the roster, and now we aren't playing him.  That isn't good for his development, his confidence, and it sure doesn't help this franchise at all for the future.  He needs to be playing daily, somewhere.  If he isn't ready for Chicago, why is he here?

And before someone states that the manager is the problem, the GM is his boss.  Either the GM tells the manager to get Fletcher into the line up, or he is OK with him not being there.  Why the hell does Andrew Benitendi need to be in the line up every day with his .500 OPS and terrible glove?  Gavin Sheets has hit for a .582 over the last two weeks anyway, and it still one of the worst defenders in baseball.  Fletcher's season OPS is actually higher than 10D, and not much less than what Sheets has put up the last couple of weeks at .548. 

Remember when we were fixing the defense for the pitchers so they would want to come here?  Yeah, what happened to that plan? 

Pedro just stating the obvious: The Sox have too much talent to find a spot for Fletcher. 

[WestEddy]

17 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The defense has sucked because of the roster moves that Getz made, not because of the injuries to a large extent.  There is no injury in RF.  Martin Maldonado is having the worst season in baseball between his defense and offense both being the worst in the league.  Eloy is one of those injuries, and he wasn't supposed to see the field anyway.  The Sox have decent defensive CF, and they are running Tommy Pham out there.  They have other choices and are running Sheets in RF.

There is zero chance what is happening in the rotation is "planned".  You don't start 9 different guys in 40 something games without injuries, and call it a plan.

You know what is great for getting prospects acclimated to the majors?  Getting minimal regular ABs/innings and being sent down before they could possibly get comfortable, or work through anything. 

They didn't HAVE to stop the start they had.  They could have understood that their long term plan was more important and stuck with it.  Instead they panicked and dumped as much of the roster as they could, all while having no hope of contention for years.

The injury in CF forced a move of our RF into CF, where he was more exposed, defensively, and then to play a worse RF in RF. I don't like Sheets in RF, either, but he had a hot bat, and with management wanting to keep Benny, Vaughn and Eloy getting at-bats, probably to break them out of their slumps so they could trade them (or just get offense, in Benny's case), RF is the only option. 

DeJong and Lopez are above average, defensively. Vaughn, Sheets and Benintendi suck. Pham is average in CF. I don't like the Maldonado signing, either. I suppose they feel his game calling and presence outweigh the other aspects of his game. I would be happy with a Maldonado DFA tomorrow. Lee is catching half of the games, now, so that's something. 

I don't care if what's happening with the rotation is planned or not. The "plan" was to see if Crochet, Fedde, Flexen and Soroka could be starting pitchers in MLB. That plan was a success. The "plan" also seemed to be to get place-holders eating innings while the prospects progressed. He did that. 

I'll rely on people who develop prospects for an opinion on the best way to get prospects acclimated to the majors. If you want rookies to get "comfortable" in the majors, it's probably good for their base-running error to not open the top of every hour on CNN the next 24 hours because they're a historically bad team. The major leagues is about guys being able to perform. If they're not executing their pitches, or striking out 1/3 of their PAs, they may not get too much time to get comfortable. Lenyn Sosa isn't the future of this franchise. I'm not worried about him getting yanked after 40 PAs. 

As far as "dumping as much of the roster they could", they've cut or traded 6 older vets who have been on the parent club. I understand your difficult situation, trying to argue something that is a huge positive (taking non-performing players off the 26-man roster) as grossly negative, in a weird "panic" framing. The roster churning is a good thing. Yes, I think he had to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure why Brad Keller needs to keep pitching on a 14-34 team, just for continuity's sake. 

One of Nastrini, Cannon or Thorpe may get a start this week. If roster churn makes you queasy, then buckle in, because there's going to be a lot more. And it will all be good. 

Edited May 21 by WestEddy

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The injury in CF forced a move of our RF into CF, where he was more exposed, defensively, and then to play a worse RF in RF. I don't like Sheets in RF, either, but he had a hot bat, and with management wanting to keep Benny, Vaughn and Eloy getting at-bats, probably to break them out of their slumps so they could trade them (or just get offense, in Benny's case), RF is the only option. 

DeJong and Lopez are above average, defensively. Vaughn, Sheets and Benintendi suck. Pham is average in CF. I don't like the Maldonado signing, either. I suppose they feel his game calling and presence outweigh the other aspects of his game. I would be happy with a Maldonado DFA tomorrow. Lee is catching half of the games, now, so that's something. 

I don't care if what's happening with the rotation is planned or not. The "plan" was to see if Crochet, Fedde, Flexen and Soroka could be starting pitchers in MLB. That plan was a success. The "plan" also seemed to be to get place-holders eating innings while the prospects progressed. He did that. 

I'll rely on people who develop prospects for an opinion on the best way to get prospects acclimated to the majors. If you want rookies to get "comfortable" in the majors, it's probably good for their base-running error to not open the top of every hour on CNN the next 24 hours because they're a historically bad team. The major leagues is about guys being able to perform. If they're not executing their pitches, or striking out 1/3 of their PAs, they may not get too much time to get comfortable. Lenyn Sosa isn't the future of this franchise. I'm not worried about him getting yanked after 40 PAs. 

As far as "dumping as much of the roster they could", they've cut or traded 6 older vets who have been on the parent club. I understand your difficult situation, trying to argue something that is a huge positive (taking non-performing players off the 26-man roster) as grossly negative, in a weird "panic" framing. The roster churning is a good thing. Yes, I think he had to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure why Brad Keller needs to keep pitching on a 14-34 team, just for continuity's sake. 

One of Nastrini, Cannon or Thorpe may get a start this week. If roster churn makes you queasy, then buckle in, because there's going to be a lot more. And it will all be good. 

 There is exactly zero chance it all will be good.

[WestEddy]

17 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The defense has sucked because of the roster moves that Getz made, not because of the injuries to a large extent.  There is no injury in RF.  Martin Maldonado is having the worst season in baseball between his defense and offense both being the worst in the league.  Eloy is one of those injuries, and he wasn't supposed to see the field anyway.  The Sox have decent defensive CF, and they are running Tommy Pham out there.  They have other choices and are running Sheets in RF.

There is zero chance what is happening in the rotation is "planned".  You don't start 9 different guys in 40 something games without injuries, and call it a plan.

You know what is great for getting prospects acclimated to the majors?  Getting minimal regular ABs/innings and being sent down before they could possibly get comfortable, or work through anything. 

They didn't HAVE to stop the start they had.  They could have understood that their long term plan was more important and stuck with it.  Instead they panicked and dumped as much of the roster as they could, all while having no hope of contention for years.

And really, you're using the very thing you say you want as evidence of Getz messing up. Vaughn and Sheets are still youngish. While neither will be playing on the next Championship team (which is a dumb measure, anyway), they're being allowed the opportunity to play through slumps and defensive adversity to give them a chance to get comfortable. I think it's reasonable to give a former 1st and 2nd rounder a little more leeway to find themselves than Lenyn Sosa, who has shown nothing in 250 PAs in the majors. 

[Dick Allen]

And Beni, is a consistent pillar in the Sox line up. Consistent suckage in the worst line up in MLB.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Remember when we were fixing the defense for the pitchers so they would want to come here?  Yeah, what happened to that plan? 

With Mendick, DeJong and Lopez/Remy at 3B/SS/2B, and Pham in CF, half of your team is average or better. Lee is very good, defensively, when he plays half the games. So I guess 9/16 of the starting 8 are average or better, defensively. Since the win-loss doesn't matter, they're using playing time to figure out Sheets and Vaughn, which seems to be what you're calling for. Benintendi - I guess they want to give him time to get out of his fielding and hitting slumps, either to eat his contract and trade him, get some game value from him, or prove to JR he's a bad signing so they can DFA him. 

Edited May 21 by WestEddy

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The injury in CF forced a move of our RF into CF, where he was more exposed, defensively, and then to play a worse RF in RF. I don't like Sheets in RF, either, but he had a hot bat, and with management wanting to keep Benny, Vaughn and Eloy getting at-bats, probably to break them out of their slumps so they could trade them (or just get offense, in Benny's case), RF is the only option. 

DeJong and Lopez are above average, defensively. Vaughn, Sheets and Benintendi suck. Pham is average in CF. I don't like the Maldonado signing, either. I suppose they feel his game calling and presence outweigh the other aspects of his game. I would be happy with a Maldonado DFA tomorrow. Lee is catching half of the games, now, so that's something. 

I don't care if what's happening with the rotation is planned or not. The "plan" was to see if Crochet, Fedde, Flexen and Soroka could be starting pitchers in MLB. That plan was a success. The "plan" also seemed to be to get place-holders eating innings while the prospects progressed. He did that. 

I'll rely on people who develop prospects for an opinion on the best way to get prospects acclimated to the majors. If you want rookies to get "comfortable" in the majors, it's probably good for their base-running error to not open the top of every hour on CNN the next 24 hours because they're a historically bad team. The major leagues is about guys being able to perform. If they're not executing their pitches, or striking out 1/3 of their PAs, they may not get too much time to get comfortable. Lenyn Sosa isn't the future of this franchise. I'm not worried about him getting yanked after 40 PAs. 

As far as "dumping as much of the roster they could", they've cut or traded 6 older vets who have been on the parent club. I understand your difficult situation, trying to argue something that is a huge positive (taking non-performing players off the 26-man roster) as grossly negative, in a weird "panic" framing. The roster churning is a good thing. Yes, I think he had to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure why Brad Keller needs to keep pitching on a 14-34 team, just for continuity's sake. 

One of Nastrini, Cannon or Thorpe may get a start this week. If roster churn makes you queasy, then buckle in, because there's going to be a lot more. And it will all be good. 

So it's about defense, until it isn't.

It is about development and learning at the major league level, until the make a mistake, and it isn't.

It is about the "plan" until it isn't.

It is about ABs to get comfortable, except for the guys who need them the most, and it isn't.

There is no plan.  This is running from fire to fire trying to cover up the last problem and creating the next problem, instead of realizing there is no difference between winning 50 or 60 games this season and getting what you can for the future of this franchise, they panic when something looks bad.  It's all they have done this year.

At this point if you don't want to see it, it is because you don't want to see it.  Everyone else can see it.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And really, you're using the very thing you say you want as evidence of Getz messing up. Vaughn and Sheets are still youngish. While neither will be playing on the next Championship team (which is a dumb measure, anyway), they're being allowed the opportunity to play through slumps and defensive adversity to give them a chance to get comfortable. I think it's reasonable to give a former 1st and 2nd rounder a little more leeway to find themselves than Lenyn Sosa, who has shown nothing in 250 PAs in the majors. 

Vaughn will undoubtedly do a Rodon 2021 and they will get exactly nothing for him in the end...but another hole to fill in the lineup.

And any other organization on the planet would have moved on from Sheets years ago.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And really, you're using the very thing you say you want as evidence of Getz messing up. Vaughn and Sheets are still youngish. While neither will be playing on the next Championship team (which is a dumb measure, anyway), they're being allowed the opportunity to play through slumps and defensive adversity to give them a chance to get comfortable. I think it's reasonable to give a former 1st and 2nd rounder a little more leeway to find themselves than Lenyn Sosa, who has shown nothing in 250 PAs in the majors. 

Andrew Vaughn has 3 full years of service time and is now an arb player.  Sheets is two years into his career and has shown a ceiling of a below average DH.  Why would you apply this policy to guys you know won't be around the next time the Sox are good (heck we aren't too far from being non-tendered in these cases), but not the guys who could be here?  Because it is about how it looks to the outside, and not what is best for the franchise long term, because they are scared of the results so far.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

With Mendick, DeJong and Lopez/Remy at 3B/SS/2B, and Pham in CF, half of your team is average or better. Lee is very good, defensively, when he plays half the games. So I guess 9/16 of the starting 8 are average or better, defensively. Since the win-loss doesn't matter, they're using playing time to figure out Sheets and Vaughn, which seems to be what you're calling for. Benintendi - I guess they want to give him time to get out of his fielding and hitting slumps, either to eat his contract and trade him, get some game value from him, or prove to JR he's a bad signing so they can DFA him. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/tommy-pham/2967/stats?position=OF

Seven negative defensive seasons in a row.

It's a minor miracle he's just -0.1 playing mostly CF.

That will age about as well as Andrew Vaughn...average major league CF.

The Padres weren't even comfortable with him in LF and certainly not right.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

With Mendick, DeJong and Lopez/Remy at 3B/SS/2B, and Pham in CF, half of your team is average or better. Lee is very good, defensively, when he plays half the games. So I guess 9/16 of the starting 8 are average or better, defensively. Since the win-loss doesn't matter, they're using playing time to figure out Sheets and Vaughn, which seems to be what you're calling for. Benintendi - I guess they want to give him time to get out of his fielding and hitting slumps, either to eat his contract and trade him, get some game value from him, or prove to JR he's a bad signing so they can DFA him. 

Yeah, I can't get past this line.  It is so not true. 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Vaughn will undoubtedly do a Rodon 2021 and they will get exactly nothing for him in the end...but another hole to fill in the lineup.

And any other organization on the planet would have moved on from Sheets years ago.

At this point Vaughn hasn't even shown the flashes that Rodon showed all along.  When he was healthy (which hasn't been often, he could be otherworldly.  I have yet to see Vaughn has some streak or tear that you step back from and say yeah, that was why he was a top of the draft guy.

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So it's about defense, until it isn't.

It is about development and learning at the major league level, until the make a mistake, and it isn't.

It is about the "plan" until it isn't.

It is about ABs to get comfortable, except for the guys who need them the most, and it isn't.

There is no plan.  This is running from fire to fire trying to cover up the last problem and creating the next problem, instead of realizing there is no difference between winning 50 or 60 games this season and getting what you can for the future of this franchise, they panic when something looks bad.  It's all they have done this year.

At this point if you don't want to see it, it is because you don't want to see it.  Everyone else can see it.

There's totally a plan. They don't play b-squad games during the season. There's only so many ABs and innings during the week. The priorities seem to be:

1) figure out the vets on the 26-man. Give them the ABs/innings to make a determination on trade/extend/DFA. 
2) if a rookie catches on, give him playing time
3) if a rookie struggles, get them experience at the major or minor leagues, depending on the problem

And really. If I had an employee who clutched onto a single axiom, and couldn't adjust to new wrinkles that came along, he'd be out the door pretty quick. Oh, I also liked roster churn when I managed a department. It worked quite well. As is it for Getz, too. 

[hogan873]

13 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

With Mendick, DeJong and Lopez/Remy at 3B/SS/2B, and Pham in CF, half of your team is average or better. Lee is very good, defensively, when he plays half the games. So I guess 9/16 of the starting 8 are average or better, defensively. Since the win-loss doesn't matter, they're using playing time to figure out Sheets and Vaughn, which seems to be what you're calling for. Benintendi - I guess they want to give him time to get out of his fielding and hitting slumps, either to eat his contract and trade him, get some game value from him, or prove to JR he's a bad signing so they can DFA him. 

Who had DeJong being one of the better hitters on their bingo card?

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Vaughn will undoubtedly do a Rodon 2021 and they will get exactly nothing for him in the end...but another hole to fill in the lineup.

And any other organization on the planet would have moved on from Sheets years ago.

Well, great. Every game they fail is one game closer to the end of their White Sox careers. 

[caulfield12]

Without Robert and Fletcher...this is by far the worst defensive outfields in baseball.

Maldonado is one of the worst starting catchers...if not THE worst.

Vaughn is below average at first despite his stretching/yoga regimen.

No FA pitcher would want that defense behind them for anything less than a 10-15% salary premium.

 

The Royals, otoh, lost 106 games last year and spent on Wacha and Lugo (similar to Fedde's unusual history) to dramatically transform the makeup of that rotation...Lugo has been a Cy Young leader since Day 1, and Wacha has been their version of Fedde in terms of taking the ball every 5th term.  Add in Ragans for Chapman and the whole pitching staff was transformed by three under the radar moves that many assisted at the time were early overpays (aka Hahn Offseason Specials).

 

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Andrew Vaughn has 3 full years of service time and is now an arb player.  Sheets is two years into his career and has shown a ceiling of a below average DH.  Why would you apply this policy to guys you know won't be around the next time the Sox are good (heck we aren't too far from being non-tendered in these cases), but not the guys who could be here?  Because it is about how it looks to the outside, and not what is best for the franchise long term, because they are scared of the results so far.

What's best for the franchise, long term, is figuring out the assets they have on the major league team who could either be long term answers, or trade bait. If you know which year the Sox will win their next Championship, please let us know. If you don't, that qualifier is meaningless. 

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yeah, I can't get past this line.  It is so not true. 

I can't walk away from this.  Even taking the guy who is pretty universally accepted as having one of the best seasons for the team in DeJong, if you go to the fangraphs WAR calculation, he is ranking 18th of 28 SS with at least 120 PAs.  Danny Mendick is a zero WAR player.  That isn't average, it is replacement.  Pham has a 0.6 WAR so far, in his limited ABs, so far I can give you that one.  Nicky Lopez has been flat out awful.  Remilard has been cut twice this past year, he's so good that no one has claimed him twice.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/tommy-pham/2967/stats?position=OF

Seven negative defensive seasons in a row.

It's a minor miracle he's just -0.1 playing mostly CF.

That will age about as well as Andrew Vaughn...average major league CF.

The Padres weren't even comfortable with him in LF and certainly not right.

I'm all about miracles. The Padres have made the most noise in their current "window", and haven't won much of anything. They no longer have the benefit of the doubt with me. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

There's totally a plan. They don't play b-squad games during the season. There's only so many ABs and innings during the week. The priorities seem to be:

1) figure out the vets on the 26-man. Give them the ABs/innings to make a determination on trade/extend/DFA. 
2) if a rookie catches on, give him playing time
3) if a rookie struggles, get them experience at the major or minor leagues, depending on the problem

And really. If I had an employee who clutched onto a single axiom, and couldn't adjust to new wrinkles that came along, he'd be out the door pretty quick. Oh, I also liked roster churn when I managed a department. It worked quite well. As is it for Getz, too. 

None of this is actually happening though.  There are blowing through everyone so quickly, you have no idea if a guy is catching on or not.  This is fantasy.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yeah, I can't get past this line.  It is so not true. 

It's completely true. Look it up at Fangraphs. Pham is at -0.1, defensively. The other 3 are +1 or higher on their ratings, which is above average. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

There's totally a plan. They don't play b-squad games during the season. There's only so many ABs and innings during the week. The priorities seem to be:

1) figure out the vets on the 26-man. Give them the ABs/innings to make a determination on trade/extend/DFA. 
2) if a rookie catches on, give him playing time
3) if a rookie struggles, get them experience at the major or minor leagues, depending on the problem

And really. If I had an employee who clutched onto a single axiom, and couldn't adjust to new wrinkles that came along, he'd be out the door pretty quick. Oh, I also liked roster churn when I managed a department. It worked quite well. As is it for Getz, too. 

Except that's some weird version of TQM from early 90's Japan where older veteran workers are protected or tenured and young "innovators" are pushed out the door in favor of the vets.

 

Fletcher Colas Sosa Cannon Nastrini

Korey Lee by necessity and Leasure are the only rookies to be extended any rope.

And it feels like Ramos won't get his starting role back either upon return from injury.  

Mendick deserves and has earned that spot at age 30, Grifol will argue.

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What's best for the franchise, long term, is figuring out the assets they have on the major league team who could either be long term answers, or trade bait. If you know which year the Sox will win their next Championship, please let us know. If you don't, that qualifier is meaningless. 

The manager has stated it isn't about development, it's about winning ballgames. Of course, he's a 60 under .500 clown.