Brad Keller DFA

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm all about miracles. The Padres have made the most noise in their current "window", and haven't won much of anything. They no longer have the benefit of the doubt with me. 

He (Pham) played in the World Series and NLCS the last two years lol.

The difference is they at least want a superior athlete at every position in SD...the opposite of the Sox.

But they aren't going anywhere with Machado and Bogaerts hitting the way they are...Soto was never a good fit and Xander is well down in the 500s for a contract much worse than Benintendi's.  

[WestEddy]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

None of this is actually happening though.  There are blowing through everyone so quickly, you have no idea if a guy is catching on or not.  This is fantasy.

I've given you examples of how they're doing just that with Benintendi, Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy, Flexen and even Soroka. 

Here's the game we're playing. It's "you can't convince me". But the object of the game isn't whether I can put forward a good argument or not, it's whether you say yes or no. And if you just keep saying no, you win. I've given you several arguments you won't acknowledge, like the Orioles jettisoning Jackson Holliday quickly. Teams do that. Bring up a guy, see he's overmatched, drop him back down to work on the holes that major leaguers exposed in his game. There's really no need for him to strike out 4 times a game for 8 weeks to get comfortable. 

You think Getz is "panicking". I think he's being proactive, churning through lesser roster options to find workable pieces. Nobody thought that Crochet, Fedde, Flexen, and Soroka would each start 33 games. 

Isn't Memorial Day a general assessment point? That's 7 days away. 

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Except that's some weird version of TQM from early 90's Japan where older veteran workers are protected or tenured and young "innovators" are pushed out the door in favor of the vets.

 

Fletcher Colas Sosa Cannon Nastrini

Korey Lee by necessity and Leasure are the only rookies to be extended any rope.

And it feels like Ramos won't get his starting role back either upon return from injury.  

Mendick deserves and has earned that spot at age 30, Grifol will argue.

As mealy-mouthed as Grifol is, even about simple things like walking outside and looking at the eclipse, he's been very unambiguous about Ramos getting his playing time back when he returns. Sosa has had 250 PAs in the majors. He's burned through his chances. Fletcher seems to be in the dog house, or they're making a decision on Sheets. They seem to indicate that they don't think Colas is ready. I don't disagree. He's certainly not tearing up the level where he plays in a hitters' paradise. 

Cannon and Nastrini looked overmatched after their first starts. 

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The manager has stated it isn't about development, it's about winning ballgames. Of course, he's a 60 under .500 clown.

Nobody disagrees with you that Grifol is a bibbledy-babbledy idiot. Any team would give a lot of rope to see if there's anything there with a former #4 overall pick. And if Sheets is anything like the flashes he's shown (gap power, lefty bench bat), there's value in that. Daniel Vogelbach exists. 

Edited May 21 by WestEddy

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I've given you examples of how they're doing just that with Benintendi, Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy, Flexen and even Soroka. 

Here's the game we're playing. It's "you can't convince me". But the object of the game isn't whether I can put forward a good argument or not, it's whether you say yes or no. And if you just keep saying no, you win. I've given you several arguments you won't acknowledge, like the Orioles jettisoning Jackson Holliday quickly. Teams do that. Bring up a guy, see he's overmatched, drop him back down to work on the holes that major leaguers exposed in his game. There's really no need for him to strike out 4 times a game for 8 weeks to get comfortable. 

You think Getz is "panicking". I think he's being proactive, churning through lesser roster options to find workable pieces. Nobody thought that Crochet, Fedde, Flexen, and Soroka would each start 33 games. 

Isn't Memorial Day a general assessment point? That's 7 days away. 

The Orioles have Mateo Westburg Henderson Mayo and Matos that can all play Holliday's spot.  Depth galore.

They don't have the luxury of waiting for him to hit with how well the Yankees have gotten off without Cole.

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The Orioles have Mateo Westburg Henderson Mayo and Matos that can all play Holliday's spot.  Depth galore.

They don't have the luxury of waiting for him to hit with how well the Yankees have gotten off without Cole.

Well, thank you for at least acknowledging that example. I would say that the White Sox found themselves in a situation where they really had to stop the bleeding in order for their rookies to play in obscurity. It doesn't help when NBC is breaking into American Ninja Warrior to give an update on Sosa's run-down gaffe. Fletcher got a nice long audition before he was sent down. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Yohan Ramirez is another one. White Sox had him last year, selected off waivers from the Pirates. They DFAed him in the flurry of traded Braves guys and Erick Fedde's signing. The Mets grabbed him. Baltimore grabbed him in the roster crunch that hits everyone at the end of ST. For some reason, Baltimore DFAed him May 2, and the Mets grabbed him up again. The Mets cut him May 15 among a flurry of moves, and now, he's been traded to the Dodgers. 

And Getz only seems to be doing this with OFs. He's not cycling through the same IF guys who are making their way from team to team. We seem set with Remy, Mendick, Sosa, Ramos, Shewmake and Lopez, Lord help us. But hey, if somebody clearly better LH-hitting 2B than Shewmake or Lopez hit the wire, I wouldn't put it past Getz to try to upgrade. 

Theres also Wilmer Difo , 32, an MLB veteran who it looks like can play 2nd base pretty good from some recent highlite reels I've seen. He also looks like a better hitter than Lopez from his previous time in the bigs . He's doing pretty good so far in Charlotte. AAAA guy for sure and just another deck chair but he fits right in and may be a slight upgrade over most of the guys you mentioned.

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I've given you examples of how they're doing just that with Benintendi, Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy, Flexen and even Soroka. 

Here's the game we're playing. It's "you can't convince me". But the object of the game isn't whether I can put forward a good argument or not, it's whether you say yes or no. And if you just keep saying no, you win. I've given you several arguments you won't acknowledge, like the Orioles jettisoning Jackson Holliday quickly. Teams do that. Bring up a guy, see he's overmatched, drop him back down to work on the holes that major leaguers exposed in his game. There's really no need for him to strike out 4 times a game for 8 weeks to get comfortable. 

You think Getz is "panicking". I think he's being proactive, churning through lesser roster options to find workable pieces. Nobody thought that Crochet, Fedde, Flexen, and Soroka would each start 33 games. 

Isn't Memorial Day a general assessment point? That's 7 days away. 

You haven't presented anything that isn't moving goal posts, which goes right along with what I have been saying.  I keep back this up with stats and facts as you switch between broad and general concepts which don't allow for any burden of proof.  Whether it has been numbers  of moves, plate appearances, defensive stats or anything, I keep bringing it to you in stats that disprove what you are saying.  Naming a lot of names isn't the same thing, especially when the lists keep being deconstructed for inconsistencies and falsehoods.

Even in your Holiday example, they gave him how long on the roster?  How many games did he play?  How many ABs did he get?  Notice how many guys we have blown through without anywhere near that level of exposure?   Notice how he started every game he played, right?

You are also conveniently ignoring that Baltimore is actually trying to win something this year, so their wins and losses actually matter.  Also they have been relatively stable, making almost 50% less moves than the White Sox have.  They have 17 recalls to the Sox 44.

[JoeC]

41 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I've given you examples of how they're doing just that with Benintendi, Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy, Flexen and even Soroka. 

Here's the game we're playing. It's "you can't convince me". But the object of the game isn't whether I can put forward a good argument or not, it's whether you say yes or no. And if you just keep saying no, you win. I've given you several arguments you won't acknowledge, like the Orioles jettisoning Jackson Holliday quickly. Teams do that. Bring up a guy, see he's overmatched, drop him back down to work on the holes that major leaguers exposed in his game. There's really no need for him to strike out 4 times a game for 8 weeks to get comfortable. 

You think Getz is "panicking". I think he's being proactive, churning through lesser roster options to find workable pieces. Nobody thought that Crochet, Fedde, Flexen, and Soroka would each start 33 games. 

Isn't Memorial Day a general assessment point? That's 7 days away. 

 

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You haven't presented anything that isn't moving goal posts, which goes right along with what I have been saying.  I keep back this up with stats and facts as you switch between broad and general concepts which don't allow for any burden of proof.  Whether it has been numbers  of moves, plate appearances, defensive stats or anything, I keep bringing it to you in stats that disprove what you are saying.  Naming a lot of names isn't the same thing, especially when the lists keep being deconstructed for inconsistencies and falsehoods.

Even in your Holiday example, they gave him how long on the roster?  How many games did he play?  How many ABs did he get?  Notice how many guys we have blown through without anywhere near that level of exposure?   Notice how he started every game he played, right?

You are also conveniently ignoring that Baltimore is actually trying to win something this year, so their wins and losses actually matter.  Also they have been relatively stable, making almost 50% less moves than the White Sox have.  They have 17 recalls to the Sox 44.

[Kyyle23]

10 minutes ago, JoeC said:

 

I would say this is the room, and if what you are seeing is making you blush then you should go to another room ?

[LittleHurtCG]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

The injury in CF forced a move of our RF into CF, where he was more exposed, defensively, and then to play a worse RF in RF. I don't like Sheets in RF, either, but he had a hot bat, and with management wanting to keep Benny, Vaughn and Eloy getting at-bats, probably to break them out of their slumps so they could trade them (or just get offense, in Benny's case), RF is the only option. 

DeJong and Lopez are above average, defensively. Vaughn, Sheets and Benintendi suck. Pham is average in CF. I don't like the Maldonado signing, either. I suppose they feel his game calling and presence outweigh the other aspects of his game. I would be happy with a Maldonado DFA tomorrow. Lee is catching half of the games, now, so that's something. 

I don't care if what's happening with the rotation is planned or not. The "plan" was to see if Crochet, Fedde, Flexen and Soroka could be starting pitchers in MLB. That plan was a success. The "plan" also seemed to be to get place-holders eating innings while the prospects progressed. He did that. 

I'll rely on people who develop prospects for an opinion on the best way to get prospects acclimated to the majors. If you want rookies to get "comfortable" in the majors, it's probably good for their base-running error to not open the top of every hour on CNN the next 24 hours because they're a historically bad team. The major leagues is about guys being able to perform. If they're not executing their pitches, or striking out 1/3 of their PAs, they may not get too much time to get comfortable. Lenyn Sosa isn't the future of this franchise. I'm not worried about him getting yanked after 40 PAs. 

As far as "dumping as much of the roster they could", they've cut or traded 6 older vets who have been on the parent club. I understand your difficult situation, trying to argue something that is a huge positive (taking non-performing players off the 26-man roster) as grossly negative, in a weird "panic" framing. The roster churning is a good thing. Yes, I think he had to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure why Brad Keller needs to keep pitching on a 14-34 team, just for continuity's sake. 

One of Nastrini, Cannon or Thorpe may get a start this week. If roster churn makes you queasy, then buckle in, because there's going to be a lot more. And it will all be good. 

Why do you keep repeating that national news organizations care about the White Sox? The White Sox are an afterthought in the Chicago Sports media market. No one at the national level like CCN gives one sh*t about them. 

29 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Well, thank you for at least acknowledging that example. I would say that the White Sox found themselves in a situation where they really had to stop the bleeding in order for their rookies to play in obscurity. It doesn't help when NBC is breaking into American Ninja Warrior to give an update on Sosa's run-down gaffe. Fletcher got a nice long audition before he was sent down. 

 

[JoeC]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I would say this is the room, and if what you are seeing is making you blush then you should go to another room ?

Yeah honestly, I was just looking for an excuse to post an Office Space gif.

I've come to expect that any thread that mentions Getz's tenure as a GM will just morph into what this thread has become.

[Kyyle23]

Just now, JoeC said:

Yeah honestly, I was just looking for an excuse to post an Office Space gif.

I've come to expect that any thread that mentions Getz's tenure as a GM will just morph into what this thread has become.

This man decided to stay in the room someone send for room service 

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You haven't presented anything that isn't moving goal posts, which goes right along with what I have been saying.

Because there is no stat that measures "panic". I do not accept that roster churn, alone, represents panic. Panic would be trading Noah Schultz and Brooks Baldwin for Frankie Montas to shore up the pitching staff. Cycling Kevin Pillar through, no matter how long he played, is baseball business as usual. 

Quote

Even in your Holiday example, they gave him how long on the roster?  How many games did he play?  How many ABs did he get?  

Holiday played 10 games. All starts. Ramos played in 10 games, started 9. Sosa played 12, started 9. Sosa has had 240 PAs at the major league level. He was pressing so hard, he was making basic mistakes. He's not a "prospect" anymore, so I see no problem with moving him up and down. His ceiling is a utility infielder, at this point. Fletcher started 18 of the 20 games in which he appeared. He was pressing, couldn't get started, offensively, and was making basic defensive mistakes. They gave him a timeout. 

Quote

Notice how many guys we have blown through without anywhere near that level of exposure?   Notice how he started every game he played, right?

None of this is data, or is compared to anything. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Shewmake, Colas, Sosa and Julks are what I would consider the "rookies" hitting the roster. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Sosa and Shewmake all got long enough looks. Lee and Ramos had success, and their looks continue. Colas is considered to not be ready. Sosa and Shewmake profile as utility infielders. I'm not sure what they're doing with Fletcher, now. I could make something up for you, but I'm not concerned. 

Shewmake started 21 of the 29 games in which he appeared. Except for Colas, Julks (who looks like he'll get a long look), and Ramos (who was injured), everybody got longer looks than Jackson. So the answer to your implied question is 1. We've blown through one guy with a shorter intentional look than Holliday, and that's Colas. 

Quote

You are also conveniently ignoring that Baltimore is actually trying to win something this year, so their wins and losses actually matter.  Also they have been relatively stable, making almost 50% less moves than the White Sox have.  They have 17 recalls to the Sox 44.

Again, you ignore the issue that the Sox were losing at a pace where every loss was a national news story. I believe that striking out 4 times and logging 2 errors every night on a team that is being covered like the Yankees isn't beneficial, and that had to be fixed. No, win-loss record doesn't matter. Losing at that rate does. 

Also, Baltimore has been building a team for 7 years. They should have a more stable roster. This is year Zero of the rebuild for the Sox. We should have more flux. 

The fact that you won't concede any point means we're still playing "you can't convince me". Show me one statistic that is generally agreed to measure "panic". There are none. This entire conversation is subjective on both our parts. You think I haven't proven anything, and I think you haven't proven anything. 

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

[LittleHurtCG]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Because there is no stat that measures "panic". I do not accept that roster churn, alone, represents panic. Panic would be trading Noah Schultz and Brooks Baldwin for Frankie Montas to shore up the pitching staff. Cycling Kevin Pillar through, no matter how long he played, is baseball business as usual. 

Holiday played 10 games. All starts. Ramos played in 10 games, started 9. Sosa played 12, started 9. Sosa has had 240 PAs at the major league level. He was pressing so hard, he was making basic mistakes. He's not a "prospect" anymore, so I see no problem with moving him up and down. His ceiling is a utility infielder, at this point. Fletcher started 18 of the 20 games in which he appeared. He was pressing, couldn't get started, offensively, and was making basic defensive mistakes. They gave him a timeout. 

None of this is data, or is compared to anything. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Shewmake, Colas, Sosa and Julks are what I would consider the "rookies" hitting the roster. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Sosa and Shewmake all got long enough looks. Lee and Ramos had success, and their looks continue. Colas is considered to not be ready. Sosa and Shewmake profile as utility infielders. I'm not sure what they're doing with Fletcher, now. I could make something up for you, but I'm not concerned. 

Shewmake started 21 of the 29 games in which he appeared. Except for Colas, Julks (who looks like he'll get a long look), and Ramos (who was injured), everybody got longer looks than Jackson. So the answer to your implied question is 1. We've blown through one guy with a shorter intentional look than Holliday, and that's Colas. 

Again, you ignore the issue that the Sox were losing at a pace where every loss was a national news story. I believe that striking out 4 times and logging 2 errors every night on a team that is being covered like the Yankees isn't beneficial, and that had to be fixed. No, win-loss record doesn't matter. Losing at that rate does. 

Also, Baltimore has been building a team for 7 years. They should have a more stable roster. This is year Zero of the rebuild for the Sox. We should have more flux. 

The fact that you won't concede any point means we're still playing "you can't convince me". Show me one statistic that is generally agreed to measure "panic". There are none. This entire conversation is subjective on both our parts. You think I haven't proven anything, and I think you haven't proven anything. 

 

 

LMAO. Every Sox loss was a national news story and covered like the Yankees? Is this a comedy bit? 

[Nardiwashere]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Because there is no stat that measures "panic". I do not accept that roster churn, alone, represents panic. Panic would be trading Noah Schultz and Brooks Baldwin for Frankie Montas to shore up the pitching staff. Cycling Kevin Pillar through, no matter how long he played, is baseball business as usual. 

 

The panic discussion began with him saying he would be ok with a roster full of placeholders or a roster full of struggling kids (not both).  He said Getz was losing prospects on the roster and then provided a list of a handful of 26-29 year old minor leaguers who were supposedly dropped or traded.  When it was pointed out that one of them was still with the organization and Brad Keller was the same age as those "prospects," he said I was missing the point by looking at the specific names he provided. 

Doesn't seem like anyone is going to be persuaded here.

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Because there is no stat that measures "panic". I do not accept that roster churn, alone, represents panic. Panic would be trading Noah Schultz and Brooks Baldwin for Frankie Montas to shore up the pitching staff. Cycling Kevin Pillar through, no matter how long he played, is baseball business as usual. 

Holiday played 10 games. All starts. Ramos played in 10 games, started 9. Sosa played 12, started 9. Sosa has had 240 PAs at the major league level. He was pressing so hard, he was making basic mistakes. He's not a "prospect" anymore, so I see no problem with moving him up and down. His ceiling is a utility infielder, at this point. Fletcher started 18 of the 20 games in which he appeared. He was pressing, couldn't get started, offensively, and was making basic defensive mistakes. They gave him a timeout. 

None of this is data, or is compared to anything. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Shewmake, Colas, Sosa and Julks are what I would consider the "rookies" hitting the roster. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Sosa and Shewmake all got long enough looks. Lee and Ramos had success, and their looks continue. Colas is considered to not be ready. Sosa and Shewmake profile as utility infielders. I'm not sure what they're doing with Fletcher, now. I could make something up for you, but I'm not concerned. 

Shewmake started 21 of the 29 games in which he appeared. Except for Colas, Julks (who looks like he'll get a long look), and Ramos (who was injured), everybody got longer looks than Jackson. So the answer to your implied question is 1. We've blown through one guy with a shorter intentional look than Holliday, and that's Colas. 

Again, you ignore the issue that the Sox were losing at a pace where every loss was a national news story. I believe that striking out 4 times and logging 2 errors every night on a team that is being covered like the Yankees isn't beneficial, and that had to be fixed. No, win-loss record doesn't matter. Losing at that rate does. 

Also, Baltimore has been building a team for 7 years. They should have a more stable roster. This is year Zero of the rebuild for the Sox. We should have more flux. 

The fact that you won't concede any point means we're still playing "you can't convince me". Show me one statistic that is generally agreed to measure "panic". There are none. This entire conversation is subjective on both our parts. You think I haven't proven anything, and I think you haven't proven anything. 

 

 

Actually you made the case for why they are panicking quite clearly right there.  As for the "not convinced", only you have said that, but I suppose I should thank you for making it clear I shouldn't waste time on you then. 

[Nardiwashere]

8 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

LMAO. Every Sox loss was a national news story and covered like the Yankees? Is this a comedy bit? 

Lol... I think he's exaggerating?  For a while, their horrible start was a big story with national baseball media.  Pierzynski's podcast and Jomboy type of outlets did devote a lot of time to them.

Not sure about the media aspect and I'm not an expert on player development but I think there could be an argument made that Dominic Fletcher having a bad start on a new team that is off to a historically bad start not being a great environment for him.  

[caulfield12]

27 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

LMAO. Every Sox loss was a national news story and covered like the Yankees? Is this a comedy bit? 

Caitlin Clark and whether WNBA players should get charter flights or the best African American players are getting overlooked for shoe deals would rank #1-98 and the White Sox #99 without Luis Robert and Cease on the roster.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/caitlin-clark-just-did-something-150143871.html

Here's another...signing an exclusive deal with Wilson Sporting Goods, something only MJ got done back in the day.

Fever are 0-4 and owning all of MLB in free press lol. That's kind of crazy.

Edited May 21 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Nardiwashere said:

Lol... I think he's exaggerating?  For a while, their horrible start was a big story with national baseball media.  Pierzynski's podcast and Jomboy type of outlets did devote a lot of time to them.

Not sure about the media aspect and I'm not an expert on player development but I think there could be an argument made that Dominic Fletcher having a bad start on a new team that is off to a historically bad start not being a great environment for him.  

Yeah just let him play everyday in Charlotte and try to get his swing/stroke re-established.  Nothing to lose.

At the rate he's going...Sox front office will start writing him off soon as a non-prospect as well.

[zisk]

I know he aint a real pitcher, but I think Keller got a much quicker heave ho than a few other stiffs did.

I would've given him 2-3 more starts. I mean it was the Yankees, at home, when they were rolling.

[WestEddy]

https://x.com/JamieGatlin17/status/1794752455105708052

[chitownsportsfan]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

https://x.com/JamieGatlin17/status/1794752455105708052

Good luck. If you're signing our sloppy seconds you're probably a s%*# team. 

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Good luck. If you're signing our sloppy seconds you're probably a s%*# team. 

Or one with tons of pitching injuries, desperate and financially constrained.