Rex Hudler Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 I was doing a little reading and came across a passage that I thought was interesting when I first read this book several years ago and just as interesting now. It is from George F. Will's book Men AT Work. For those of you who have not read it, I highly recommend it. It is somewhat dated now (written in 1990) but is one of the most detailed books ever written about how the game is played. In this book there was a passage reprinted from another publication.... The passage was written by a former player and manager, years after retiring and goes as follows: Baseball today is not what it should be. The players do not try to learn all the fine points of the game as in the days of old, but simply try to get by... It makes me weep to think of the men of the old days who played the game and the boys of today. It's positively a shame.. and they are getting big money for it too. This observation was made and written for the Spaulding Baseball Guide in 1916! There are many other examples that the game has not changed and fans have ALWAYS complained about the money the players make. Joe DiMaggio held out of Spring Training almost every season because of contract demands. His hold out actually lasted into at least one season, causing him to miss regular season games over money. It was considered crazy and a major deal when Babe Ruth signed a contract that gave him more money than the US President. There has always been imbalance and "small market teams vs. large market teams". The Washington Senators rarely began a season with a ealistic chances of making the World Series. Same for the old St. Louis Browns (now Baltimore Orioles). Many of the "problems" of today's game, were the same problems of the game in the 20's and the 50's and the 70's. I am not saying the game is without fault, but I think it is interesting to note that the same complaints that are made today, have been made throughout the history of the game. Thoughts? Any additions from you old codgers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Great post, I have nothing to add though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 50 years from now people will have wonderful memories of this era of baseball. How the game was played the way it was supposed to be and how real heros like Barry Bonds, Manny Rameirez and Sammy Sosa played with integrity and grit and could be looked up to by youth. It's amazing what the passage of a little time will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 9, 2003 Author Share Posted November 9, 2003 It's amazing what the passage of a little time will do. How true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 I was doing a little reading and came across a passage that I thought was interesting when I first read this book several years ago and just as interesting now. It is from George F. Will's book Men AT Work. For those of you who have not read it, I highly recommend it. It is somewhat dated now (written in 1990) but is one of the most detailed books ever written about how the game is played. In this book there was a passage reprinted from another publication.... The passage was written by a former player and manager, years after retiring and goes as follows: Baseball today is not what it should be. The players do not try to learn all the fine points of the game as in the days of old, but simply try to get by... It makes me weep to think of the men of the old days who played the game and the boys of today. It's positively a shame.. and they are getting big money for it too. This observation was made and written for the Spaulding Baseball Guide in 1916! There are many other examples that the game has not changed and fans have ALWAYS complained about the money the players make. Joe DiMaggio held out of Spring Training almost every season because of contract demands. His hold out actually lasted into at least one season, causing him to miss regular season games over money. It was considered crazy and a major deal when Babe Ruth signed a contract that gave him more money than the US President. There has always been imbalance and "small market teams vs. large market teams". The Washington Senators rarely began a season with a ealistic chances of making the World Series. Same for the old St. Louis Browns (now Baltimore Orioles). Many of the "problems" of today's game, were the same problems of the game in the 20's and the 50's and the 70's. I am not saying the game is without fault, but I think it is interesting to note that the same complaints that are made today, have been made throughout the history of the game. Thoughts? Any additions from you old codgers? Do people simplify, romanticize and revise eras past? Sure. Baseball is no exception. However, saying BASEBALL has not changed in a century is akin to saying that LIFE itself has not changed in a century. Cultural, technological, institutional upheavals tend to transform everything......Hell, there were gangsters in the stands spraying an occasional round or two around an uncooperating outfielder as late as early 1900s, for crying out loud! I mean, you're right, there were always money-grubbing egos and newspapermen willing to write about them and the adoring readers.......Babe Ruth made more than a president and it was SHOCKING, there you go. Today, the LEAGUE MINIMUM is above that level. See the difference in economic dynamics and public perception? Just a little bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 How true.... what's too painful to remember we simply choose to forget so its the laughter we will remember whenever we remember the way we were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 It is from George F. Will's book Men AT Work Will is a Cub fan-turned-Oriole. What does he know? (jus kidding) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Will is a Cub fan-turned-Oriole. What does he know? nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 In the "old days," players loved, respected, and admired the game. They could make some money playing a game, and they gave it everything they had. I'm not saying that some players nowadays don't share those characteristics, but a lot don't, IMO. The players from the "old days" would actually have to get a job in the offseason to pay the bills. How many players nowadays have to worry about that? However, I am very aware of the fact that you are worth as much as someone is willing to pay you to do what you do well. If you are a business manager, and your best offer is $56,000, then that is the highest worth someone has put on you. A-Rod signed a contract for 250 million two years ago because someone thought he was worth that much. Do I fault him for that or hate him? No. Someone was willing to pay him that. Was he supposed to say, "Oh, no, Mr. Hicks. I can't possibly take this money, I'm not worth that." Nope. I wish baseball was played like it was in the old old old days, when Buck Weaver, Honus Wagner, Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Grover Alexander, Shoeless Joe Jackson, etc. gave all the blood, sweat, and tears they had to the game. But let's be honest and face it - most baseball players today are mainly concerned with the post-game spread, their own statistics, their contracts, and looking good. Baseball has become a game of individuality - the team concept is lost so often it is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 100 years ago the White Sox were owned by a tightfisted bastard. Now...I guess things haven't changed so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 100 years ago the White Sox were owned by a tightfisted bastard. Now...I guess things haven't changed so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 100 years ago the White Sox were owned by a tightfisted bastard. Now...I guess things haven't changed so much. At least they don't play in Reinsdorf Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Gleason Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 At least they don't play in Reinsdorf Park. No, instead they sell the naming rights, thereby taking away the name of the man responsible for the LEAGUE that they are a member of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 As far as I can tell, ain't nuthin changed since 1959. we're still wishin, hopin, prayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Rex, I've been watching (following) major league baseball for well over fifty years, and I can honestly say that players today hustle more than they did 50-60 years ago. There have been lots of changes for the betterment of the game. I just wish we could deemphasize the home run a little bit by not building band box ball parks. Big ball parks will yield more doubles and triples and will require faster outfielders, all of which adds excitement. But the trend is to bring in the fences more and more, to the delight of fans, which is something i will never understand, other than the fact that fans are getting dumber every decade. Sox Park is no exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkit Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Well Jim, my little guy just turned five a few weeks ago and he asked me a question that made so much sense, I almost drove off the road... He wanted to know why all the ballparks look different on TV. He was specifically talking about the Green Monster at Fenway, but when I tried to explain to him that all the parks are built to be a little different, he told me, "That isn't right. Shouldn't everyone play in the same kinda park," or something to that effect. I told him that the Green Monster is a very old ballpark and that that wall has great meaning for some folks. So he asked, "the new parks are all the same though, right?" It's odd that today, there isn't any minimum requirement for left and right fence lines, etc. I'm not suggesting they make all parks the same and generic, but perhaps there should be some standards about minimum size...and by the way, why do places tell lies about the distance to their fences? I think I'd like to see pitchers hit again, and chin music tolerated more, since the other pitcher could just take care of the offender. And I'd like to see them give the pitchers the old mound back, as well as continue to work to get the strike zone back to what it is defined as in the rules. Last, I wouldn't let players wear all that protective junk on their elbows so they can hang over the plate. I really love baseball. I have annoyances about the game, but nothing I really hate. How long until the first spring training pitch is thrown? Forkit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 50 years from now people will have wonderful memories of this era of baseball. How the game was played the way it was supposed to be and how real heros like Barry Bonds, Manny Rameirez and Sammy Sosa played with integrity and grit and could be looked up to by youth. It's amazing what the passage of a little time will do. I don't think so. The steroid thing, if it is allowed to come out is going to be the worst thing since 1919. I also do not agree with the original post. This is not the Golden Age of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 This is not the Golden Age of anything What about numbing apathy? Political correctness? Islamic terrorism? And about a dozen of other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 What about numbing apathy? Political correctness? Islamic terrorism? And about a dozen of other things. OK I stand corrected. Not the Golden Age of anything worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 10, 2003 Author Share Posted November 10, 2003 50 years from now people will have wonderful memories of this era of baseball. How the game was played the way it was supposed to be and how real heros like Barry Bonds, Manny Rameirez and Sammy Sosa played with integrity and grit and could be looked up to by youth. It's amazing what the passage of a little time will do. I don't think so. The steroid thing, if it is allowed to come out is going to be the worst thing since 1919. I also do not agree with the original post. This is not the Golden Age of anything. Where does it say anywhere that this is the Golden Age?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Many of the "problems" of today's game, were the same problems of the game in the 20's and the 50's and the 70's. I am not saying the game is without fault, but I think it is interesting to note that the same complaints that are made today, have been made throughout the history of the game. Thoughts? Any additions from you old codgers? Yes, I have a thought. How damn long is it going to take them to fix these problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 They will never fix it, Yas. Baseball used to be a game. It's now a business. Once that happens, the "good old days" are gone. I still love baseball, and think it's a beautiful game. And I'm so happy and ecstatic that the salaries are going down. Finally some people get it. I only wish that we could get to the point where the best players only made about 4-5 million. It will never happen, but I can dream. And for the record, Scott Boras can suck me dry. He's the biggest con artist, asshole, jerk, liar, and deceitful scumbag that baseball has ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 50 years from now people will have wonderful memories of this era of baseball. How the game was played the way it was supposed to be and how real heros like Barry Bonds, Manny Rameirez and Sammy Sosa played with integrity and grit and could be looked up to by youth. It's amazing what the passage of a little time will do. I don't think so. The steroid thing, if it is allowed to come out is going to be the worst thing since 1919. I also do not agree with the original post. This is not the Golden Age of anything. Where does it say anywhere that this is the Golden Age?? If it appeared that I put words in your mouth then please accept my humblest apology. I continue to disagree with with your original post or at least with what I understand it to be. I know that you are a top notch poster here who is an expert on prospects. I know all things are relative and even in what appears to have been the best of times in baseball or anything else for that matter, there were problems that the passing of time seems to erase. I know that people always long for the "good old days" in baseball as in life. In spite of this I do not see this a high point in the history of MLB in terms of quality of play or anything else for that matter. Regarding play I think defensive play or fielding is better than it ever was. Just about all other aspects of the game, no way. The game has many other entrenched problems that threaten its well being. That's just how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 10, 2003 Author Share Posted November 10, 2003 I think there are many things that threaten today's game and even cheapen it somewhat. But my point was some of the problems people b**** about today, they have always b****ed about. They just tend to be forgotten about as the years pass. Players making more money than they are worth, owners being tightfisted or greedy, the players playing mainly for themselves, competitive imbalance, etc. are complaints fans have made almost since the beginning of the game. They are not new problems. One difference in today's game is that agents are involved and the player's have the upper hand now. In the past, it was the opposite. My point was not to romanticize the game, state that the game is better than ever, etc., it was merely to point out to some of the younger guys that some things in this game never change and have always existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 10, 2003 Author Share Posted November 10, 2003 They will never fix it, Yas. Baseball used to be a game. It's now a business. Once that happens, the "good old days" are gone. Past, I have to disagree with you there. Baseball in the present has always been a business. When remembered in past tense, it has always been a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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