Padres into Garret Crochet

[wrathofhahn]

On 6/4/2024 at 4:48 PM, Nardiwashere said:

I know Salas is highly touted but I wouldn't be trading him for 17 or 18 year olds right now. 

If I'm moving Robert or Crochet, I want guys who are here in the next 18 months. 

Why? This team isn't wining anything anytime soon. You want to burn through a players service time with this roster. Once again why?

Furthermore, the Padres are in win now mode Salas may be someone they would actually be willing to move.

Edited June 7 by wrathofhahn

[wrathofhahn]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:08 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Oh God, not with this BS again.  Nothing counts until you actually sign the premier free agent.  If the Sox truly had the top offer to Wheeler and wanted him so badly, did they offer him a bit more money to change his wife’s mind?  I mean, after all, they ended up paying their alternative signing (Keuchel) not to pitch later on.

This isn’t spin.  The Sox either signed a guy or didn’t.  This “almost” BS is just that.  BS.  Giving credit to the Sox for missing out on their target is laughable.

The spin is pointing to a player who didn't sign as evidence of anything.

Half the s%*# you hear during the FA period is lies anyways put out by agents about teams they think have money to spend.

Edited June 7 by wrathofhahn

[Nardiwashere]

2 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Why? This team isn't wining anything anytime soon. You want to burn through a players service time with this roster. Once again why?

Furthermore, the Padres are in win now mode Salas may be someone they would actually be willing to move.

Because they have a batch of prospects (mostly on the pitching side) coming up in the next year.  They just traded  their 2nd biggest trade chip in Cease for 3 guys...  2 of them will be in that batch.  It's possible Thorpe is up in the second half of this year.  They aren't the Orioles but this isn't 2016 when Adam Engel was the #3 prospect in the organization.  

Why would the team acquire guys this last offseason and last trade deadline that line up for a "quick" 3 year rebuild and then switch gears and start a another 5-6 year process.

You mention burning through service time... Let's say our luck turns around and Montgomery comes up next year and does look like he'll be Seager and Thorpe is Kyle Hendriks and Ramos is whatever Ramos' 90% outcome.  I'd rather have Crochet or Robert on the team so there's some type of core to build around.  If they do trade Crochet and Robert, I'd rather have guys who align more closely with Montgomery et al. rather than burning the new guys' service time until the 18 year olds are ready... and then we need to trade Montgomery and Thorpe and whoever because now they only have 2 years left of control in 2029.          

Here's another thing no one mentions-

Everyone loves to talk about how we know JR doesn't spend on top end free agents.  There's about a thousand pages of people complaining about Machado and Harper and Wheeler.  I can recite it all in my sleep... "two teams haven't signed a $100m player" "We get stuck with Benitendi instead of Harper"  "Only time he played with the big boys was Albert Belle"  That's all true.    

You know what else is true?  JR has owned the team for nearly 50 years.  Up until Hahn and KW begged him to allow for a full rebuild, he never let the Sox tear it all down.  The closest they ever got was the White Flag Trade when they traded a bunch of vets for Caruso, Foulke, Howry, Lorenzo Barcelo, and 2 guys I don't remember who all either busted or debuted within a year or two of the trade.  

People think stubborn-as-f*** Jerry Reinsdorf spent decades resisting full scale tear-it-all-down rebuilds and then reluctantly allowed himself to be talked into one, it fails, and then fires the guys who talked him into it and authorizes another one?     

I don't want it to happen and I don't think it will happen.  I bet if they trade either guy, its going to be for players who are kind of close to MLB.  

[T R U]

3 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

Because they have a batch of prospects (mostly on the pitching side) coming up in the next year.  They just traded  their 2nd biggest trade chip in Cease for 3 guys...  2 of them will be in that batch.  It's possible Thorpe is up in the second half of this year.  They aren't the Orioles but this isn't 2016 when Adam Engel was the #3 prospect in the organization.  

Why would the team acquire guys this last offseason and last trade deadline that line up for a "quick" 3 year rebuild and then switch gears and start a another 5-6 year process.

You mention burning through service time... Let's say our luck turns around and Montgomery comes up next year and does look like he'll be Seager and Thorpe is Kyle Hendriks and Ramos is whatever Ramos' 90% outcome.  I'd rather have Crochet or Robert on the team so there's some type of core to build around.  If they do trade Crochet and Robert, I'd rather have guys who align more closely with Montgomery et al. rather than burning the new guys' service time until the 18 year olds are ready... and then we need to trade Montgomery and Thorpe and whoever because now they only have 2 years left of control in 2029.          

Here's another thing no one mentions-

Everyone loves to talk about how we know JR doesn't spend on top end free agents.  There's about a thousand pages of people complaining about Machado and Harper and Wheeler.  I can recite it all in my sleep... "two teams haven't signed a $100m player" "We get stuck with Benitendi instead of Harper"  "Only time he played with the big boys was Albert Belle"  That's all true.    

You know what else is true?  JR has owned the team for nearly 50 years.  Up until Hahn and KW begged him to allow for a full rebuild, he never let the Sox tear it all down.  The closest they ever got was the White Flag Trade when they traded a bunch of vets for Caruso, Foulke, Howry, Lorenzo Barcelo, and 2 guys I don't remember who all either busted or debuted within a year or two of the trade.  

People think stubborn-as-f*** Jerry Reinsdorf spent decades resisting full scale tear-it-all-down rebuilds and then reluctantly allowed himself to be talked into one, it fails, and then fires the guys who talked him into it and authorizes another one?     

I don't want it to happen and I don't think it will happen.  I bet if they trade either guy, its going to be for players who are kind of close to MLB.  

I don't personally care how old or close the prospects are when they trade these two guys, I only care about getting the best return. If they are all 18-19, so be it. If they are 21-22, also fine. I just want a maximized return.

They don't all have to come up at the exact same time, its ok to build it in waves.

[WestEddy]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

The hardest thing to sell is a bad version of a product that others have readily available. I would argue is even hard to sell Chicago to players from outside the Midwest. Those that want year round warm temps are getting south. NY and LA have better side money potential and equally good night life. The AL Central is a boring division without a marque. State taxes are high and that's half your games. 

Selling time shares in Branson may be easier. 

Illinois has a flat tax. While a bit high for the poor and middle class, it's great for rich people. Texas and Florida don't have income tax. Georgia, Washington, California, New York, Massachusetts - they all have a higher top rate. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Nardiwashere said:

Because they have a batch of prospects (mostly on the pitching side) coming up in the next year.  They just traded  their 2nd biggest trade chip in Cease for 3 guys...  2 of them will be in that batch.  It's possible Thorpe is up in the second half of this year.  They aren't the Orioles but this isn't 2016 when Adam Engel was the #3 prospect in the organization.  

Why would the team acquire guys this last offseason and last trade deadline that line up for a "quick" 3 year rebuild and then switch gears and start a another 5-6 year process.

You mention burning through service time... Let's say our luck turns around and Montgomery comes up next year and does look like he'll be Seager and Thorpe is Kyle Hendriks and Ramos is whatever Ramos' 90% outcome.  I'd rather have Crochet or Robert on the team so there's some type of core to build around.  If they do trade Crochet and Robert, I'd rather have guys who align more closely with Montgomery et al. rather than burning the new guys' service time until the 18 year olds are ready... and then we need to trade Montgomery and Thorpe and whoever because now they only have 2 years left of control in 2029.          

Here's another thing no one mentions-

Everyone loves to talk about how we know JR doesn't spend on top end free agents.  There's about a thousand pages of people complaining about Machado and Harper and Wheeler.  I can recite it all in my sleep... "two teams haven't signed a $100m player" "We get stuck with Benitendi instead of Harper"  "Only time he played with the big boys was Albert Belle"  That's all true.    

You know what else is true?  JR has owned the team for nearly 50 years.  Up until Hahn and KW begged him to allow for a full rebuild, he never let the Sox tear it all down.  The closest they ever got was the White Flag Trade when they traded a bunch of vets for Caruso, Foulke, Howry, Lorenzo Barcelo, and 2 guys I don't remember who all either busted or debuted within a year or two of the trade.  

People think stubborn-as-f*** Jerry Reinsdorf spent decades resisting full scale tear-it-all-down rebuilds and then reluctantly allowed himself to be talked into one, it fails, and then fires the guys who talked him into it and authorizes another one?     

I don't want it to happen and I don't think it will happen.  I bet if they trade either guy, its going to be for players who are kind of close to MLB.  

If the Sox are shopping Robert and Crochet, it is already happening.

[Nardiwashere]

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If the Sox are shopping Robert and Crochet, it is already happening.

What is?  If they trade them, we'll see what they get.  I'd bet that if those guys get traded, its going to be centered on players closer to the majors.  

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

What is?  If they trade them, we'll see what they get.  I'd bet that if those guys get traded, its going to be centered on players closer to the majors.  

This is a full scale tear down and rebuild.

[wrathofhahn]

On 6/4/2024 at 7:10 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

Good lord is that you Rick?

Like these people are delusional we lost 14 in a row. Whatever he thought about the team before the season and the reasoning for acquiring older prospects doesn't matter. The reality is what it is.

This is the worst team in baseball maybe in all of professional sports. We are not 1-2 years away from competing. Period.

We do not have the base talent level and the prospects coming up behind them to win. Like I don't even know where this is coming from? Are people watching a different team.

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, Nardiwashere said:

Because they have a batch of prospects (mostly on the pitching side) coming up in the next year.  They just traded  their 2nd biggest trade chip in Cease for 3 guys...  2 of them will be in that batch.  It's possible Thorpe is up in the second half of this year.  They aren't the Orioles but this isn't 2016 when Adam Engel was the #3 prospect in the organization.  

Why would the team acquire guys this last offseason and last trade deadline that line up for a "quick" 3 year rebuild and then switch gears and start a another 5-6 year process.

You mention burning through service time... Let's say our luck turns around and Montgomery comes up next year and does look like he'll be Seager and Thorpe is Kyle Hendriks and Ramos is whatever Ramos' 90% outcome.  I'd rather have Crochet or Robert on the team so there's some type of core to build around.  If they do trade Crochet and Robert, I'd rather have guys who align more closely with Montgomery et al. rather than burning the new guys' service time until the 18 year olds are ready... and then we need to trade Montgomery and Thorpe and whoever because now they only have 2 years left of control in 2029.          

Here's another thing no one mentions-

Everyone loves to talk about how we know JR doesn't spend on top end free agents.  There's about a thousand pages of people complaining about Machado and Harper and Wheeler.  I can recite it all in my sleep... "two teams haven't signed a $100m player" "We get stuck with Benitendi instead of Harper"  "Only time he played with the big boys was Albert Belle"  That's all true.    

You know what else is true?  JR has owned the team for nearly 50 years.  Up until Hahn and KW begged him to allow for a full rebuild, he never let the Sox tear it all down.  The closest they ever got was the White Flag Trade when they traded a bunch of vets for Caruso, Foulke, Howry, Lorenzo Barcelo, and 2 guys I don't remember who all either busted or debuted within a year or two of the trade.  

People think stubborn-as-f*** Jerry Reinsdorf spent decades resisting full scale tear-it-all-down rebuilds and then reluctantly allowed himself to be talked into one, it fails, and then fires the guys who talked him into it and authorizes another one?     

I don't want it to happen and I don't think it will happen.  I bet if they trade either guy, its going to be for players who are kind of close to MLB.  

2016 White Sox Top Prospects (mlb.com)

Other than Anderson, what a bust of a group...geez, that's one of the uglier Sox prospect lists.

[Snopek]

 

[hi8is]

10 minutes ago, Snopek said:

 

Schriffin, “NO HIT PERFECT GAME TIME BABY!!! LETS DO THIS! YOU KNOW THE BOSOX FEAR THE CROCHET HOOK! OHHHHHHHH YEA…. ITS TIME!!!!!!”

I then imagine him snorting a line off the mic stand.

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Schriffin, “NO HIT PERFECT GAME TIME BABY!!! LETS DO THIS! YOU KNOW THE BOSOX FEAR THE CROCHET HOOK! OHHHHHHHH YEA…. ITS TIME!!!!!!”

I then imagine him snorting a line off the mic stand.

 

I feel that if Schriffen did hockey work on the side, he'd ask the color guy why the losing team is pulling the goalie in the last two minutes. 

He has a very rudimentary knowledge about sports (at best). He's basically just an airhead cheerleader (just like JR likes it).

[GreenSox]

Well it's the other teams that should have the sense of urgency to put forth packages FOR Crochet.  They get one of the best pitchers in baseball for 2.5 more years.  He'd be the #1 on 2/3 of the contenders.

Getz needs to make them pay and pay big.

[hi8is]

3 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

 

I feel that if Schriffen did hockey work on the side, he'd ask the color guy why the losing team is pulling the goalie in the last two minutes. 

He has a very rudimentary knowledge about sports (at best). He's basically just an airhead cheerleader (just like JR likes it).

I think he could be exciting if the team had a high octane offense and was running away with the division.

[Whisox05]

 

[Lip Man 1]

DVS had a game recap story in the Sun-Times today from last night and Crochet was quoted as saying there have been no contract extension talks yet between him and the team. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DVS had a game recap story in the Sun-Times today from last night and Crochet was quoted as saying there have been no contract extension talks yet between him and the team. 

He's gone 

[nrockway]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DVS had a game recap story in the Sun-Times today from last night and Crochet was quoted as saying there have been no contract extension talks yet between him and the team. 

I wish they would at least offer a team-friendly extension before shipping him out. He's a special player, arguably more so than Robert, who should still be good in six years if he doesn't get seriously injured. The potential for serious injury is why you trade him I suppose, but I think it's worth the risk to keep him at the right price.

Whether or not he'd sign for that "right price" is another story but I'd like to at least see the attempt made.

[WhiteSox2023]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's gone 

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

I wish they would at least offer a team-friendly extension before shipping him out. He's a special player, arguably more so than Robert, who should still be good in six years if he doesn't get seriously injured. The potential for serious injury is why you trade him I suppose, but I think it's worth the risk to keep him at the right price.

Whether or not he'd sign for that "right price" is another story but I'd like to at least see the attempt made.

JR probably doesn’t even think that Crochet earned his guaranteed rookie contract.  He most definitely GONE.

Edited June 15 by WhiteSox2023

[oldsox]

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's gone 

I have a hunch that the reason you are so adament about Crochet being gone is because he went out and pitched the 7th inning Thursday, after a tough 6th inning.  If so, you are putting too much emphasis on that 7th inning.

[caulfield12]

20 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

DVS had a game recap story in the Sun-Times today from last night and Crochet was quoted as saying there have been no contract extension talks yet between him and the team. 

Little thing called leverage in trade negotiations…seems lost on Getz.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Little thing called leverage in trade negotiations…seems lost on Getz.

No idea what you're talking about ? There's no reason to extend him if they are going trade him.

And if you keep him you are going to limit his workload . If just don't know what form that will take.

Don't bug his agent about an extension . There's no reason to rush into it. See how healthy he is the rest of the season.

You just don't start throwing $70M  at a guy who has never pitched like this in his life just because he appears to be a giant unicorn. That's the very definition of buying high.

I prefer another team buying high on him.

Edited June 15 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No idea what you're talking about ? There's no reason to extend him if they are going trade him.

And if you keep him you are going to limit his workload . If just don't know what form that will take.

Don't bug his agent about an extension . There's no reason to rush into it. See how healthy he is the rest of the season.

You just don't start throwing $70M  at a guy who has never pitched like this in his life just because he appears to be a giant unicorn. That's the very definition of buying high.

I prefer another team buying high on him.

If opposing teams don’t believe that extending him is even a 5-10% possibility, why would they offer bigger packages, knowing the clock is ticking on his usefulness this season or even that an injury could still occur?

Giving even the Cease return requires a lot of cojones from at least 2-3 teams…or no bidding war.  Certainly need two playoff contenders.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No idea what you're talking about ? There's no reason to extend him if they are going trade him.

And if you keep him you are going to limit his workload . If just don't know what form that will take.

Don't bug his agent about an extension . There's no reason to rush into it. See how healthy he is the rest of the season.

You just don't start throwing $70M  at a guy who has never pitched like this in his life just because he appears to be a giant unicorn. That's the very definition of buying high.

I prefer another team buying high on him.

Conversely…after being derailed for half a decade, Chris Sale is one of the top pitchers in baseball again.  Crochet just looks like he has found his footing as a starter…and Ragans is holding up as a 95+ starter despite even two previous TJ surgeries.

Some upper tier revenue team will certainly be willing to invest $100+ million if Juan Soto is going to get $655 million without even being a good outfielder.  

Another lefty, Imanaga was one of the biggest FA bargains of the off season and nearly everyone thought $75 million was a huge overpay for a high strikeout guy without dominating velocity.

 

AJ Preller will make a calculated gamble like this…as he can’t afford to add another massive contract over $150-200 million.  And maybe it would blow up and cost him his job.

Edited June 16 by caulfield12