Padres into Garret Crochet

[baseball_gal_aly]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Agreed, but JR isn’t going that route.  Like Dick Allen always reminds us, Getz was chosen because he knows the system and it wouldn’t take him a year to get ramped up into the GM position, like an outside GM candidate would’ve required.  Well, after this season we now see that this would’ve been the better route to take since Getz ended up wasting a season anyways.

Best we can hope for under JR is a rando one year division title and a quick playoff exit. 

[WestEddy]

7 hours ago, Texsox said:

Thank you for the permission to spin it any way.

"It's my wife, not me" is a wonderfully modern strategy. She also made some great financial transactions, she consulted with foreign governments,  and she flew a US flag upside down. 

Translated, my career may get so bad down the line I would sign with the Sox, so I'll find an excuse like " it's not you, it's my wife. Bro, you know how it is, happy wife, happy life."

It actually doesn't matter why, it's another example of the Sox needing to over offer to obtain a player. Anyone ever waive a no trade clause to come to the Sox? 

These are two different arguments. "Reinsdorf won't pay free agents" is not true. In this situation, they offered more to Wheeler, and he went elsewhere. The other is "Hahn can't close a deal", which I don't believe is correct, either. 

In the Wheeler situation, the reported story was the wife threw down, and that's it. Nobody disputed the reporting, so either it's correct, or there's a worse version that both parties believe the wife story covers up well enough. 

Jake Peavy waived a no trade to come to the Sox. 

[WestEddy]

7 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Why would Crochet extend this close to FA? 

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money. We're not talking 10/$150m. It's more like 3/$30m. 

I don't even think it's "he doesn't trust his own health". If somebody offers you $100 guaranteed, or $100 contingent on you doing something, and I get to decide if you succeeded, you'd probably take the $100 guaranteed. \

It's a moot point, because it certainly sounds like Getz is open to dealing Crochet. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, joejoesox said:

i dont agree w/ that, they dont need a massive payroll to be competitive, they just need to completely overhaul the front office, and that isn't gonna happen until there's a new owner

You don't HAVE to spend a lot in free agency.  Look at Cleveland and Tampa.  But IF you go that route, your player development and drafting have to be A+ level, and our has been hot garbage.  We seem to be decent at finding players in other systems who are closer to finished products, but our development has been mediocre at best.  If you aren't getting players internally, you have to them from somewhere.  Well I guess the 3rd alternative is to be the worst team in baseball/baseball history.

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money. We're not talking 10/$150m. It's more like 3/$30m. 

I don't even think it's "he doesn't trust his own health". If somebody offers you $100 guaranteed, or $100 contingent on you doing something, and I get to decide if you succeeded, you'd probably take the $100 guaranteed. \

It's a moot point, because it certainly sounds like Getz is open to dealing Crochet. 

Garrett has somewhere around half of that amount coming into the next two years regardless through the arbitration system.  A 3/30 type deal is like maybe $15-18ish million for the 3rd year in extra money for him over what the system is going to give him regardless of his status the next two years.  If you are going to get him to sign a 3 year deal it is probably going to be closer to $50 million than $30 million.

[southsider2k5]

50 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

These are two different arguments. "Reinsdorf won't pay free agents" is not true. In this situation, they offered more to Wheeler, and he went elsewhere. The other is "Hahn can't close a deal", which I don't believe is correct, either. 

In the Wheeler situation, the reported story was the wife threw down, and that's it. Nobody disputed the reporting, so either it's correct, or there's a worse version that both parties believe the wife story covers up well enough. 

Jake Peavy waived a no trade to come to the Sox. 

This is the key word.

Pay. 

He didn't actually PAY Wheeler anything, because he never came here.

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money. We're not talking 10/$150m. It's more like 3/$30m. 

I don't even think it's "he doesn't trust his own health". If somebody offers you $100 guaranteed, or $100 contingent on you doing something, and I get to decide if you succeeded, you'd probably take the $100 guaranteed. \

It's a moot point, because it certainly sounds like Getz is open to dealing Crochet. 

Yeah but in this case we are talking about a difference in the nine figures in all likelihood.  Again, look at Tyler Glasnow.  Dude has a career high 120 innings, and only been over 100 innings twice since 2016.  He got a 5 year deal at $27 million PER SEASON.  If Garrett has gotten this far without an extension it is a sign to me that he is willing to wait it out and bet on himself.  If he sees a 5/150 type deal as a possibility, why would he settle for way less?

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You don't HAVE to spend a lot in free agency.  Look at Cleveland and Tampa.  But IF you go that route, your player development and drafting have to be A+ level, and our has been hot garbage.  We seem to be decent at finding players in other systems who are closer to finished products, but our development has been mediocre at best.  If you aren't getting players internally, you have to them from somewhere.  Well I guess the 3rd alternative is to be the worst team in baseball/baseball history.

Drafting: C-

Development / Coaching: D-

International signings: D

FA: D

Scouting: D

Add it all up and you get a failing grade overall and a team ready to set all time loss records.

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is the key word.

Pay. 

He didn't actually PAY Wheeler anything, because he never came here.

Semantics. 

The argument is that Reinsdorf is averse to signing "top" free agents. Like, he won't spend the money. This is a situation where the Sox are reported to have submitted the highest bid, and the player's side went elsewhere. 

Players opting for less money and another team is a different argument from JR being cheap. When they're competitive, it's not crazy for the Sox to have a top 5 payroll. I think everybody agrees Hahn spent that payroll unwisely. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Drafting: C-

Development / Coaching: D-

International signings: D

FA: D

Scouting: D

Add it all up and you get a failing grade overall and a team ready to set all time loss records.

IDK how development is better than a D honestly

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

IDK how development is better than a D honestly

Good point. Development: F.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Semantics. 

The argument is that Reinsdorf is averse to signing "top" free agents. Like, he won't spend the money. This is a situation where the Sox are reported to have submitted the highest bid, and the player's side went elsewhere. 

Players opting for less money and another team is a different argument from JR being cheap. When they're competitive, it's not crazy for the Sox to have a top 5 payroll. I think everybody agrees Hahn spent that payroll unwisely. 

He only seems to be willing to pay a decent free agent if they are on the cheap end.  Even the Machado negotiations were tens of millions less than what his market value ended up being.  They never bothered to make an offer to Harper.  They publicly laughed at Ohtani.  He hasn't actually done it, so it is a fair statement to say he won't based on exactly this history.  He has played at the top of the market like twice in the 40+ years he has been here, and really not at all since Albert Belle.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Agreed, but I think he would want more than $40 million through 2028 at this point and I doubt the Sox would be the willing risk takers in this situation.  If the price was $40 million through 2028, the Sox should probably jump on that regardless of where they are in their rebuild.  Hell, they already waste $20+ million a year in the offseason anyways so that would be a risk worth taking.

But just imagine if Crochet is truly over his injury issues with how little mileage there has been on his arm, and this is truly the guy he is now?  The Padres are definitely more of a team willing to take on this risk, and there’s not often a 24 year old potential lefty ace available, even on the trade market.

With the questions around Crochet — injuries, potential innings limit for this year, and lack of this kind of success until this year — I wonder how much this will impact the return on him in a trade.  He is truly a boom or bust type acquisition for some team.  Like acquiring a much younger Carlos Rodon.

I don't know what will happen but it might depend on if Crochet is actively involved and listens to Boras.

It's generally believed if you hire Bora that you'll go for the jugular and want to test free agency. But that is how Boras operates . He'll be in Crochet s ear telling him he believes in him. The payout is much bigger for Boras if Crochet can prove he's capable of big bucks. But it doesn't always work out that way. Plenty of players have passed on decent offers and regretted it.

If Crochet is his own man and has some common sense about the consequences of passing up a decent offer because of his injury history  he'd still be able to get big money at 28 years old if his arm holds up.

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He only seems to be willing to pay a decent free agent if they are on the cheap end.  Even the Machado negotiations were tens of millions less than what his market value ended up being.  They never bothered to make an offer to Harper.  They publicly laughed at Ohtani.  He hasn't actually done it, so it is a fair statement to say he won't based on exactly this history.  He has played at the top of the market like twice in the 40+ years he has been here, and really not at all since Albert Belle.

Hahn's foray into bullpen arms wasn't cheap. Grandal and Benintendi weren't small potatoes. No, Reinsdorf does not play in the deep end, but it is not a correct statement to say he won't spend on free agents. We'll see what Getz does in a couple of years when they start getting competitive. 

[WhiteSox2023]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He only seems to be willing to pay a decent free agent if they are on the cheap end.  Even the Machado negotiations were tens of millions less than what his market value ended up being.  They never bothered to make an offer to Harper.  They publicly laughed at Ohtani.  He hasn't actually done it, so it is a fair statement to say he won't based on exactly this history.  He has played at the top of the market like twice in the 40+ years he has been here, and really not at all since Albert Belle.

But remember what Kenny said — if Machado had reached all of the incentives included in the Sox offer, he would have had the opportunity to make more money than the fully guaranteed contract that the Padres ultimately signed him to!

🤣🤣🤣

This is why you can’t trust the Sox in any of their shady and ridiculous free agent negotiations.  They are either morons and truly thought their offer was better than the Padres or they are outright liars to the fans.  Clowns, either way.  🤡 

Edited June 6 by WhiteSox2023

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't know what will happen but it might depend on if Crochet is actively involved and listens to Boras.

It's generally believed if you hire Bora that you'll go for the jugular and want to test free agency. But that is how Boras operates . He'll be in Crochet s ear telling him he believes in him. The payout is much bigger for Boras if Crochet can prove he's capable of big bucks. But it doesn't always work out that way. Plenty of players have passed on decent offers and regretted it.

If Crochet is his own man and has some common sense about the consequences of passing up a decent offer because of his injury history  he'd still be able to get big money at 28 years old if his arm holds up.

Wait, his agent is Scott Boras?

If so, trade him.

Edited June 6 by Bob Sacamano

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't know what will happen but it might depend on if Crochet is actively involved and listens to Boras.

It's generally believed if you hire Bora that you'll go for the jugular and want to test free agency. But that is how Boras operates . He'll be in Crochet s ear telling him he believes in him. The payout is much bigger for Boras if Crochet can prove he's capable of big bucks. But it doesn't always work out that way. Plenty of players have passed on decent offers and regretted it.

If Crochet is his own man and has some common sense about the consequences of passing up a decent offer because of his injury history  he'd still be able to get big money at 28 years old if his arm holds up.

Baseball-Reference has Crochet with CAA. Has he switched to Boras?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Baseball-Reference has Crochet with CAA. Has he switched to Boras?

Oh I might be wrong. Probably got him mixed up with Robert. My bad.

But the same thing applies . If you're Crochet do you just play it out and take whatever you make in 2025 and 26 and test Free Agency or do you take possibly double or triple that amount to give up 2 years of Free agency ?

 

Edited June 6 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

AND wasting a LOT of JR's "precious" money (with at least till now, no blow-back)

TV ratings, attendance,, merchandise sales, or just merch if you are as cool as Schriffen, all taking a bite out of JR's wallet. How can he not realize this, and scorch the earth for someone who can fix this? 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Wait, his agent is Scott Boras?

If so, trade him.

Sorry I was wrong. I think I got him mixed up with Robert Jr. I just doing it from memory which isn't isn't always correct. Like I'm not even 100 % sure Robert is with Boras.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Hahn's foray into bullpen arms wasn't cheap. Grandal and Benintendi weren't small potatoes. No, Reinsdorf does not play in the deep end, but it is not a correct statement to say he won't spend on free agents. We'll see what Getz does in a couple of years when they start getting competitive. 

The biggest deal of all time is $700 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 10.5% of that total

The 10th biggest deal of all, time is $325 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 23% of that total.

The 25th biggest deal of all time is $240 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is right about 31% of that total.

The 30th biggest deal of all time is $200 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 38% of that total.

The 50th biggest deal of all time is $162 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is just under 46% of that total.

Let me say that again.  to get to the White Sox biggest deal EVER, that is less than half of the 50th biggest deal ever.  In fact the White Sox are one of two teams in MLB HISTORY never to sign a $100 million deal. I literally can't find a ranking that goes on far enough to find where the Sox biggest contract ranks in MLB history, because no table out there goes to that small of a contract when talking about biggest ever.  There is one team in all of MLB who has yet to sign a deal which was bigger than the Benitendi deal, in Oakland.

You can say you that the Sox are willing spend all you want, but the history of what has actually been done shows that is a lie.

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The biggest deal of all time is $700 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 10.5% of that total

The 10th biggest deal of all, time is $325 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 23% of that total.

The 25th biggest deal of all time is $240 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is right about 31% of that total.

The 30th biggest deal of all time is $200 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 38% of that total.

The 50th biggest deal of all time is $162 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is just under 46% of that total.

Let me say that again.  to get to the White Sox biggest deal EVER, that is less than half of the 50th biggest deal ever.  In fact the White Sox are one of two teams in MLB HISTORY never to sign a $100 million deal. I literally can't find a ranking that goes on far enough to find where the Sox biggest contract ranks in MLB history, because no table out there goes to that small of a contract when talking about biggest ever.  There is one team in all of MLB who has yet to sign a deal which was bigger than the Benitendi deal, in Oakland.

You can say you that the Sox are willing spend all you want, but the history of what has actually been done shows that is a lie.

Only two teams have never signed a free agent to a contract larger than $75 million.  It’s us and a team that has to relocate.

How can this even be argued?

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The biggest deal of all time is $700 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 10.5% of that total

The 10th biggest deal of all, time is $325 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 23% of that total.

The 25th biggest deal of all time is $240 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is right about 31% of that total.

The 30th biggest deal of all time is $200 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is about 38% of that total.

The 50th biggest deal of all time is $162 million.  The White Sox biggest deal is just under 46% of that total.

Let me say that again.  to get to the White Sox biggest deal EVER, that is less than half of the 50th biggest deal ever.  In fact the White Sox are one of two teams in MLB HISTORY never to sign a $100 million deal. I literally can't find a ranking that goes on far enough to find where the Sox biggest contract ranks in MLB history, because no table out there goes to that small of a contract when talking about biggest ever.  There is one team in all of MLB who has yet to sign a deal which was bigger than the Benitendi deal, in Oakland.

You can say you that the Sox are willing spend all you want, but the history of what has actually been done shows that is a lie.

It isn't. 

Reinsdorf won't drop $500m on a player. That is correct. In 2022, their team payroll was 6th highest in MLB. Randomly picking a year out of their last competitive window - 2008. 5th highest. 

I get the narrative, Reinsdorf won't sign the huge contract. The lie is in saying "he won't spend money", because that's demonstrably untrue. 

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Only two teams have never signed a free agent to a contract larger than $75 million.  It’s us and a team that has to relocate.

How can this even be argued?

Then the correct sentence would be "Reinsdorf won't spend on the top players in the game." When they're competitive, they're top 10 in payrolls. 

[Chimpton]

27 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Hahn's foray into bullpen arms wasn't cheap. Grandal and Benintendi weren't small potatoes. No, Reinsdorf does not play in the deep end, but it is not a correct statement to say he won't spend on free agents. We'll see what Getz does in a couple of years when they start getting competitive. 

I admire your optimism but it may take a lot longer than a couple of years before we see the Whites Sox 'competitive' again even if Getz manages to pull of some decent trades.