Nardiwashere Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, bmags said: That's 3 full seasons man, that's a ton. In 2020, we would have been laughing at you if you said in 3 years we'd be a 100 loss team. Exactly. If we are aiming at next decade like some here are saying, that's about the same time it took for Hahn to tear everything down, rebuild a farm system drastically worse than what we have now, make 2 playoff appearances, and then turn shitty again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I'll let you in on a secret: A rebuild kind of depends on it. Don't tell anyone. Some teams build good AA rosters without needing to trade a top 15 pitcher in baseball. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: That's it, let it all out. Please stop hiding these amazing threads with your admin powers. I’m sure I missed that thread titled, “String Which WestEddy Ruined by Being Smarter Than Us”. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Some teams build good AA rosters without needing to trade a top 15 pitcher in baseball. Let's assume (I know) that we have 30 WAR worth of players sitting down in the minors that will all matriculate to MLB within three seasons. Let's assume we aren't going to be signing any real starter quality players or one at best in that time frame. Cool, you just built a 80 win team and you're out of guys to trade to get more prospects. I mean, what are we doing here? You're not even going to get 20 WAR out of the minor league system in that time period, probably over the ENTIRE three seasons. We're so fucking far away from competing it's like a mirage in the desert to even imagine we are within eyesight of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 30 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: Signing some free agents and mixing them with young prospects to get to 80 - 85 wins is more likely then rebuilding and coming up with a consistently winning team in 2028. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. I think thinking they can get to fewer than 85 losses by 2027 is delusional. That's at least a 30 win improvement from now. Just to get to 85 losses. Also anyone rebuilding realizes this is a 5-6 year job. They move Robert and Crochet and they need to fill literally every position on the 26 man roster. They have NOTHING right now. Even if they keep Robert/Crochet they still need to fill 8/9 of the lineup and 4/5 of a rotation, not to mention the entire bullpen. Edited June 7 by baseball_gal_aly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Let's assume (I know) that we have 30 WAR worth of players sitting down in the minors that will all matriculate to MLB within three seasons. Let's assume we aren't going to be signing any real starter quality players or one at best in that time frame. Cool, you just built a 80 win team and you're out of guys to trade to get more prospects. I mean, what are we doing here? You're not even going to get 20 WAR out of the minor league system in that time period, probably over the ENTIRE three seasons. We're so fucking far away from competing it's like a mirage in the desert to even imagine we are within eyesight of it. Man seems to forget that the Sox had 10 top 100 prospects at one point on top of prime Abreu, TA and lazarus pit Rodon. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, Quin said: Man seems to forget that the Sox had 10 top 100 prospects at one point on top of prime Abreu, TA and lazarus pit Rodon. We had a top 3 farm and a decent 75 win team and still peaked with a couple good seasons. I dunno people have short memories I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Let's assume (I know) that we have 30 WAR worth of players sitting down in the minors that will all matriculate to MLB within three seasons. Let's assume we aren't going to be signing any real starter quality players or one at best in that time frame. Cool, you just built a 80 win team and you're out of guys to trade to get more prospects. I mean, what are we doing here? You're not even going to get 20 WAR out of the minor league system in that time period, probably over the ENTIRE three seasons. We're so fucking far away from competing it's like a mirage in the desert to even imagine we are within eyesight of it. And at the culmination of that last rebuild, they signed Grandal, Keuchel, Hendriks, Kelly, Graveman and Benintendi. They traded for Lynn and Kimbrel. Grandal was the sweetheart of the "framing metrics" crowd. Keuchel put up 2 WAR in 60 games in 2020. Hendriks and Kimbrel were top of the game closers. And they still get to draft, sign and develop players during this time period you're talking about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 13 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Please stop hiding these amazing threads with your admin powers. I’m sure I missed that thread titled, “String Which WestEddy Ruined by Being Smarter Than Us”. ? Of course he titled it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 22 minutes ago, bmags said: That's 3 full seasons man, that's a ton. In 2020, we would have been laughing at you if you said in 3 years we'd be a 100 loss team. It is a LOT easier to become a 100 loss team than a 90 win team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 19 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Exactly. If we are aiming at next decade like some here are saying, that's about the same time it took for Hahn to tear everything down, rebuild a farm system drastically worse than what we have now, make 2 playoff appearances, and then turn shitty again. Again, the rebuild already started, though will less than we had in 2016 when we got three star packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 14 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Let's assume (I know) that we have 30 WAR worth of players sitting down in the minors that will all matriculate to MLB within three seasons. Let's assume we aren't going to be signing any real starter quality players or one at best in that time frame. Cool, you just built a 80 win team and you're out of guys to trade to get more prospects. I mean, what are we doing here? You're not even going to get 20 WAR out of the minor league system in that time period, probably over the ENTIRE three seasons. We're so fucking far away from competing it's like a mirage in the desert to even imagine we are within eyesight of it. And we sure aren't going to spend to do it either. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, WestEddy said: And at the culmination of that last rebuild, they signed Grandal, Keuchel, Hendriks, Kelly, Graveman and Benintendi. They traded for Lynn and Kimbrel. Grandal was the sweetheart of the "framing metrics" crowd. Keuchel put up 2 WAR in 60 games in 2020. Hendriks and Kimbrel were top of the game closers. And they still get to draft, sign and develop players during this time period you're talking about. Is this a parody account? In sum those were bad signings that wasted money and cost us opportunity to sign better players. There's no evidence we'll sign useful FA, we rarely have on the South Side. And stop trying to have some "gotcha" about "darlings" or "fans wanted this". WE ARE FANS. We have 1/10 the info the Sox do on everything. Stop trying to say because the fans thought something was good or bad it was good or bad. No, it's the results the SOX get ON THE FIELD. Everything else is bullshit and not worth arguing. We aren't hear to legislate fan opinions in hindsight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, WestEddy said: And at the culmination of that last rebuild, they signed Grandal, Keuchel, Hendriks, Kelly, Graveman and Benintendi. They traded for Lynn and Kimbrel. Grandal was the sweetheart of the "framing metrics" crowd. Keuchel put up 2 WAR in 60 games in 2020. Hendriks and Kimbrel were top of the game closers. And they still get to draft, sign and develop players during this time period you're talking about. I am not sure what you intended with this post, but you just put up a whole lot of reasons why expecting the Sox to bring in successes in free agency is a fallacy. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: It is a LOT easier to become a 100 loss team than a 90 win team. Tbh I think it’s pretty hard to be a 100 loss team when trying to be a 90 win team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltwilliams Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 22 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I think thinking they can get to fewer than 85 losses by 2027 is delusional. That's at least a 30 win improvement from now. Just to get to 85 losses. Also anyone rebuilding realizes this is a 5-6 year job. They move Robert and Crochet and they need to fill literally every position on the 26 man roster. They have NOTHING right now. Even if they keep Robert/Crochet they still need to fill 8/9 of the lineup and 4/5 of a rotation, not to mention the entire bullpen. The Tigers went from 119 losses in 2003 to 95 wins and a World Series appearance in 2006. Granted, they had Dave Dombrowski as their GM, but still ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, bmags said: Tbh I think it’s pretty hard to be a 100 loss team when trying to be a 90 win team That is the skill right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, waltwilliams said: The Tigers went from 119 losses in 2003 to 95 wins and a World Series appearance in 2006. Granted, they had Dave Dombrowski as their GM, but still ... Well if we get an owner willing to speculatively spend and arguably the best GM in the game over the last 20 years, we'll have a shot! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 31 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Let's assume (I know) that we have 30 WAR worth of players sitting down in the minors that will all matriculate to MLB within three seasons. Let's assume we aren't going to be signing any real starter quality players or one at best in that time frame. Cool, you just built a 80 win team and you're out of guys to trade to get more prospects. I mean, what are we doing here? You're not even going to get 20 WAR out of the minor league system in that time period, probably over the ENTIRE three seasons. We're so fucking far away from competing it's like a mirage in the desert to even imagine we are within eyesight of it. Great post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 18 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Is this a parody account? In sum those were bad signings that wasted money and cost us opportunity to sign better players. There's no evidence we'll sign useful FA, we rarely have on the South Side. And stop trying to have some "gotcha" about "darlings" or "fans wanted this". WE ARE FANS. We have 1/10 the info the Sox do on everything. Stop trying to say because the fans thought something was good or bad it was good or bad. No, it's the results the SOX get ON THE FIELD. Everything else is bullshit and not worth arguing. We aren't hear to legislate fan opinions in hindsight. In hindsight, yes, most of those were terrible signings. I think most long term contracts are terrible signings. Hahn was not a good GM. Add to that the friction between him and his boss, and there were a lot of reactionary moves. Grandal was thought to be a coup at the time. He was coming off of 4 very good seasons in LA and Milwaukee. Hit for an .814 OPS in those 4. That wasn't seen as wasted money at the time. We are the fans? You are A fan. Because the previous FO made bad decisions, that doesn't mean that a new FO will also make bad decisions. If you want to fall back on the "same people" canard, TLR and Getz are the guys in Reinsdorf's ear, not KW and Hahn. Similar? Maybe. Getz is already illustrating a clear difference in his decision making from the previous FO's. And cut the "parody account" BS. We can't all be angry man-babies screaming about a bad baseball team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 9 minutes ago, waltwilliams said: The Tigers went from 119 losses in 2003 to 95 wins and a World Series appearance in 2006. Granted, they had Dave Dombrowski as their GM, but still ... They also had the luxury of drafting highly in consecutive seasons and they already had a good farm and had been bad for a while by then. Same with the 2013 Astros. That rebuild started in 2009 and it took them until 2015 to win 85 games. Those teams had more to work with when they were horrible. Edited June 7 by baseball_gal_aly 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am not sure what you intended with this post, but you just put up a whole lot of reasons why expecting the Sox to bring in successes in free agency is a fallacy. “Here’s all the bad tier 3 free agents the Sox wasted their money on rather than reeling in a Harper or Machado and Wheeler…” Edited June 7 by WhiteSox2023 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 31 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I think thinking they can get to fewer than 85 losses by 2027 is delusional. That's at least a 30 win improvement from now. Just to get to 85 losses. Also anyone rebuilding realizes this is a 5-6 year job. They move Robert and Crochet and they need to fill literally every position on the 26 man roster. They have NOTHING right now. Even if they keep Robert/Crochet they still need to fill 8/9 of the lineup and 4/5 of a rotation, not to mention the entire bullpen. 2027 is a long way away. An eternity in baseball years. Saying this is just doom and gloom or younger folks speaking. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am not sure what you intended with this post, but you just put up a whole lot of reasons why expecting the Sox to bring in successes in free agency is a fallacy. There is a new FO and set of decision makers. We'll see how they do when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said: They also had the luxury of drafting highly in consecutive seasons and they already had a good farm and had been bad for a while by then. Same with the 2013 Astros. That rebuild started in 2009 and it took them until 2015 to win 85 games. Drafting highly is whatever in baseball. It matters much less than in other sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts