striker Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 On 6/7/2024 at 8:20 PM, ChiSox59 said: It’s gonna hurt when Robert puts up 15 WAR for another team from 25-27. He would probably have to play in 420 games in that timespan. Does anyone really see that happening? I don’t and that’s why I am willing to trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 8 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: Constantly bitching about whatever everyone else says Yeah! No one else does that here on Soxtalk. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 11 hours ago, Tony said: That ended up not working out very well for you How so? When I get fed up with an organization, I actually stop supporting it. Some just talk about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 8 hours ago, tray said: Not true. 100 percent true. You have more of a problem with everyone on this site correctly assessing this team and everything around it than you do the actual architects of the bullshit that got us here. All you do is complain about what soxtalk says when you are on soxtalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 11 minutes ago, poppysox said: Yeah! No one else does that here on Soxtalk. There is a clear difference in arguing with people about a stance and continuing to come to this site and couch arguments under the guise of “everyone here is stupid” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 8 hours ago, WestEddy said: None of that stuff was reported then. I don't know how old you are, tray, but I'm 60, and even if it was alluded to, 9 year old me didn't quite pick up on it. Weird dunk how Xers, Zers and whatevers think everybody should have hated everybody else in their own time based on what we know now. Maybe they should STFU until after they show real shame over not rejecting today's celebrities over allegations that will come out in the next 10 years. I have no problem saying “Michael Jordan was a womanizing asshole psycho gambler his entire time in Chicago” honestly. It’s not hard. I also would not defend Frank Thomas or anyone else in this organization if truth came out about them that was anywhere near what happened with Hull. f*** that, you are dead to me. Don’t care what you did for the organization. Also not hard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 13 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: There is a clear difference in arguing with people about a stance and continuing to come to this site and couch arguments under the guise of “everyone here is stupid” Did anyone say, "everyone here is stupid"? Personally...I think some here are not stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 minute ago, poppysox said: Did anyone say, "everyone here is stupid"? Personally...I think some here are not stupid. I’m glad you believe that at least some here are not stupid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 On 6/6/2024 at 10:55 PM, Y2Jimmy0 said: It would be much more than this. I don’t think it happens because there are only a handful of teams capable of making the trade and I’m not sure those teams do it for 3.5 years of control. When you say much more than that, can you give an example of what you’re thinking? From my perspective, let’s take an optimistic approach and say that Robert is viewed as a 5 win per year player. At $9M per win and with $61M in salary, his surplus value would ~$100M over the next 3.5 seasons. Let’s even assume a 25% premium because he’s a star and those should be worth more on a dollar per win basis and say he’s worth ~$125M all in. My proposal was Emerson, Montes, and a 3rd good prospect. Emerson is now ranked 15th overall at BA and is a legit 60 FV prospect (which based on an old FG analysis would be worth ~$55M). Montes is now ranked 49th overall and is probably a 55 FV prospect (worth ~$46M). As for the third piece, perhaps I undersold it a bit as being simply a “good” piece, but I was thinking a 50 FV type positional prospect or someone roughly in the 60 to 100 range (worth ~$28M). I was originally thinking Tyler Locklear (now 83rd on BA’s list) but I didn’t love pairing him with another bat only prospect in Montes so I kept the specific piece vague. Regardless, that package would be worth a theoretical ~$129M in surplus value vs. the ~$125M for Robert, which feels within the ballpark. I’d expect a couple of lottery tickets to be included as well, but nothing earth shattering there. That does feel light relative to the first Soto trade, but the market is going to be constrained due to few teams having the prospect capital to get a deal done in the first place and even fewer GMs having the appetite to give them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 9 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Well, it’s 2024 and it’s known now and it’s the same reason everyone hates guys like Clevinger and Bauer. And we are all discussing this NOW, not back when Hull was playing. But it’s apparently easier to hate on lesser players that did these things than stars at their sport. If we all found out that a player like Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko was a drunk racist spousal abuser this year, that shouldn’t impact how we view them at all? I guarantee you that it would have an impact and the Sox would dissociate themselves from them completely. This was 1972 and Bobby Hull was the "Golden Jet" not an abuser. Hull was a true superhero to Chicagoans. JR has done nothing so offensive to the fan base in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 55 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: When you say much more than that, can you give an example of what you’re thinking? From my perspective, let’s take an optimistic approach and say that Robert is viewed as a 5 win per year player. At $9M per win and with $61M in salary, his surplus value would ~$100M over the next 3.5 seasons. Let’s even assume a 25% premium because he’s a star and those should be worth more on a dollar per win basis and say he’s worth ~$125M all in. My proposal was Emerson, Montes, and a 3rd good prospect. Emerson is now ranked 15th overall at BA and is a legit 60 FV prospect (which based on an old FG analysis would be worth ~$55M). Montes is now ranked 49th overall and is probably a 55 FV prospect (worth ~$46M). As for the third piece, perhaps I undersold it a bit as being simply a “good” piece, but I was thinking a 50 FV type positional prospect or someone roughly in the 60 to 100 range (worth ~$28M). I was originally thinking Tyler Locklear (now 83rd on BA’s list) but I didn’t love pairing him with another bat only prospect in Montes so I kept the specific piece vague. Regardless, that package would be worth a theoretical ~$129M in surplus value vs. the ~$125M for Robert, which feels within the ballpark. I’d expect a couple of lottery tickets to be included as well, but nothing earth shattering there. That does feel light relative to the first Soto trade, but the market is going to be constrained due to few teams having the prospect capital to get a deal done in the first place and even fewer GMs having the appetite to give them up. Yeah Emerson and Montes is a good start. Need a dynamite 3rd piece as well and probably a useful 4th piece lottery ticket. Should be the closest thing we’ve seen to a Soto trade with 3.5 years of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 I suspect the M's have one untouchable: Colt Emerson (and maybe Celesten). Would Cole Young, Montes, Farmelo work? Sox taking on a lot of risk in that trade but Montes and Farmelo have major upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 28 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Yeah Emerson and Montes is a good start. Need a dynamite 3rd piece as well and probably a useful 4th piece lottery ticket. Should be the closest thing we’ve seen to a Soto trade with 3.5 years of control. If I am Dipoto and I am including bother Emerson and Montes, I need an additional piece to offset Robert’s risk. Maybe Vaughn or Sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: I have no problem saying “Michael Jordan was a womanizing asshole psycho gambler his entire time in Chicago” honestly. It’s not hard. I also would not defend Frank Thomas or anyone else in this organization if truth came out about them that was anywhere near what happened with Hull. f*** that, you are dead to me. Don’t care what you did for the organization. Also not hard And I have no problem with that, either. Bobby Hull is a scumbag, and probably a part of why I drifted away from hockey. But he was the main guy on the Hawks. And as a child, I was also let down when he left. Both can be true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I'd take the under on 15 easily. Maybe on 10 also. Same. Won’t stay healthy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 hours ago, Timmy U said: I suspect the M's have one untouchable: Colt Emerson (and maybe Celesten). Would Cole Young, Montes, Farmelo work? Sox taking on a lot of risk in that trade but Montes and Farmelo have major upside. There shouldn’t be any untouchables in that system for Luis Robert 2 hours ago, striker said: If I am Dipoto and I am including bother Emerson and Montes, I need an additional piece to offset Robert’s risk. Maybe Vaughn or Sheets. And if I’m Getz, I tell Jerry to pound sand and enjoy watching Robert in Chicago or elsewhere 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 12 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Trust me, I idolize these celebrities that you are referring to, both in the form of actors and musicians, far less than the ridiculous effort you put forth to try to defend and fluff up every crappy Getz player acquisition and supposed prospect that he has developed. It's classic boomer whataboutism and false equivalency. It is so very tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 hours ago, striker said: If I am Dipoto and I am including bother Emerson and Montes, I need an additional piece to offset Robert’s risk. Maybe Vaughn or Sheets. Vaughn and Sheets have absolutely zero value and do nothing to offset Robert's injury risk. They are both instant DFA's for a competing club. It would take more than Robert to pry Colt Emerson from Seattle IMO, but Sheets and Vaughn actually hurt the incoming value for the Mariners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 17 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Vaughn and Sheets have absolutely zero value and do nothing to offset Robert's injury risk. They are both instant DFA's for a competing club. It would take more than Robert to pry Colt Emerson from Seattle IMO, but Sheets and Vaughn actually hurt the incoming value for the Mariners. Sheets has actually hit well this year. I don’t he changes the calculus on a Robert trade, but I don’t think he has negative value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 3 hours ago, striker said: If I am Dipoto and I am including bother Emerson and Montes, I need an additional piece to offset Robert’s risk. Maybe Vaughn or Sheets. Who needs them is a better question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Sheets has actually hit well this year. I don’t he changes the calculus on a Robert trade, but I don’t think he has negative value. M's have plenty of LH power that can actually play RF. Sheets requires a 40 man spot, and might start one game a week at 1B or DH. He offers no value to the Mariners roster that couldn't fill internally. If Dipoto needed an extra piece to offset Robert's injury risk, neither Sheets or Vaughn do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) If Bob speaks about the Sox, it's probably true. They're probably not getting the offers they're looking for. Edited June 9 by baseball_gal_aly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 7 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: If Bob speaks about the Sox, it's probably true. We are talking about a million and a half left on Pedro's deal. Yet how much have we wasted just on the contracts of guys we played for a week and dumped 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 hours ago, Tnetennba said: It's classic boomer whataboutism and false equivalency. It is so very tired. Wow you managed to stereotype the way a whole generation thinks. Nazi much ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said: If Bob speaks about the Sox, it's probably true. They're probably not getting the offers they're looking for. I didn't need Nightingale to tell me trading either one was unlikely. Robert value not what it was and Crochet a big ? For 2nd half and postseason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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