White Sox calling up Thorpe

[TaylorStSox]

4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You just made a statement that you can’t prove and said there’s no reason to make things up.

We all know what’s going to happen after this season.  News will come out, just like last season, about how cancerous the clubhouse was this year.  It’s so obvious.

I presented a hypothetical. I have no idea how they feel about him. I'm not making things up to fit a narrative I created in my head. Again, there's no evidence the clubhouse is toxic and there are plenty of tangible reasons to be mad at the Sox without making things up.

[WhiteSox2023]

14 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I presented a hypothetical. I have no idea how they feel about him. I'm not making things up to fit a narrative I created in my head. Again, there's no evidence the clubhouse is toxic and there are plenty of tangible reasons to be mad at the Sox without making things up.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-white-sox/multiple-players-listed-as-reason-for-white-sox-bad-locker-room-culture/?amp

Middleton, Grandal, and Sleepy Santos are gone.  However, Moncada and Eloy are still here, albeit injured as usual.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-white-sox/multiple-players-listed-as-reason-for-white-sox-bad-locker-room-culture/?amp

Middleton, Grandal, and Sleepy Santos are gone.  However, Moncada and Eloy are still here, albeit injured as usual.

Look if we are going to pretend that a "lack of evidence" is somehow evidence, and then handwave away anything that actually serves as evidence, by those standards there is no evidence that the Sox lockeroom isn't a toxic mess either.  But I think the player survey's, coupled with actual player statements are telling.

[TaylorStSox]

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-white-sox/multiple-players-listed-as-reason-for-white-sox-bad-locker-room-culture/?amp

Middleton, Grandal, and Sleepy Santos are gone.  However, Moncada and Eloy are still here, albeit injured as usual.

Do you even read your own links? Nothing says "toxic" like this quote from the article - "Eloy is kind of happy-go-lucky but really isn’t the hard worker at least according to people that I talk to,” Rodgers said."

 

You're not very good at this 

[TaylorStSox]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look if we are going to pretend that a "lack of evidence" is somehow evidence, and then handwave away anything that actually serves as evidence, by those standards there is no evidence that the Sox lockeroom isn't a toxic mess either.  But I think the player survey's, coupled with actual player statements are telling.

And here I thought that when making accusations, the burden of proof was on the accuser. I mean, that's kind of the standard, isn't it?

The player poll that keeps being sourced was just a list of bad teams and the Yankees. Of course players don't want to play on bad teams and the Yankees have historically been unforgiving to players.

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Do you even read your own links? Nothing says "toxic" like this quote from the article - "Eloy is kind of happy-go-lucky but really isn’t the hard worker at least according to people that I talk to,” Rodgers said."

 

You're not very good at this 

Yes, what are you missing?  When a player that wants to win sees these two lazy asses making millions and barely trying, what do you think that does to a clubhouse?

Quote

Moncada is no hard worker who is there for his team or his teammates. It’s the guys you know. Eloy is kind of happy-go-lucky but really isn’t the hard worker at least according to people that I talk to,” Rodgers said.

 

Edited June 11 by WhiteSox2023

[TaylorStSox]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yes, what are you missing?  When a player that wants to win sees these two lazy asses making millions and barely trying, what do you think that does to a clubhouse?

 

Moncada hasn't been on the team since April 9th.

Edited June 11 by TaylorStSox

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

And here I thought that when making accusations, the burden of proof was on the accuser. I mean, that's kind of the standard, isn't it?

The player poll that keeps being sourced was just a list of bad teams and the Yankees. Of course players don't want to play on bad teams and the Yankees have historically been unforgiving to players.

It isn't just the list.  It is the list of reasons given with the list.  Even their lack of communication is sited in that list.  I feel the making things up part comes by ignore the actual evidence in front of us that there are actual problems.

[TaylorStSox]

So the evidence for this "toxic clubhouse" is an article written last year accusing 2 players of being lazy. Combined, those 2 players have played 27 games this year. Yeah, solid argument, guys.

[WhiteSox2023]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Moncada hasn't been on the team since April 9th.

Moncada has played this season and is targeting a second half return.  Eloy has also been with the team off and on this season.  Now you are nitpicking to prove your point.  But perhaps you have more insider access and sources to the Sox clubhouse than Jesse Rogers?

[WhiteSox2023]

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

So the evidence for this "toxic clubhouse" is an article written last year accusing 2 players of being lazy. Combined, those 2 players have played 27 games this year. Yeah, solid argument, guys.

So now exact number of games played is what matters, as if they still aren’t around the team?

[SoxAce]

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Moncada hasn't been on the team since April 9th.

So Moncada hasn't been on the team since April 9th even though he's still in the dugout, clubhouse and is still getting checks from the White Sox. Got it. 

[TaylorStSox]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It isn't just the list.  It is the list of reasons given with the list.  Even their lack of communication is sited in that list.  I feel the making things up part comes by ignore the actual evidence in front of us that there are actual problems.

The problem is that they suck, not that the clubhouse is toxic. 

Like I said in the beginning, not wanting to introduce Thorpe to a losing culture makes sense. The Sox clearly have a losing culture. That doesn't mean the clubhouse is "toxic." They're very distinct things.

[WestEddy]

56 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The truth is somewhere in the middle of the Athletic poll and what the Sox and their players throw out there. 99% of the players ripping the team would be singing their praises if JR offered them 1 more dollar than they signed for. And 99 % of the organization will not say anything bad on the record to the press. 

I don't even see the quotes from the article as players "ripping" on the Sox.

Quote

On the White Sox:
“I’ve never heard a good thing.”
“Unlike some other bad teams, they have more potential to be good.”
“It sounds like no one wants to be there day in and day out …  like it’s a grind just to show up to the ballpark. I couldn’t imagine.”
It’s not good over there. You can tell by how often there’s turnover that it usually means something’s going on. Players leaving the organization and automatically doing better (with their new team).”
“Poor communication.”

The most damning one is the last. I can't imagine that Getz and Grifol are buddies. Getz' recent, luke-warm statement that they'd reevaluate the manager's position after the season seems to put the crosshairs right on Grifol. I don't know if Grifol does that bibbledy-babble thing in private, too, but if rookies and bullpen guys are getting mixed messages, or have ever-changing rolls, that's frustrating, and can make it a grind even coming to work. 

And most of those quotes seem like they can include past seasons. 

I would think that Getz, Bannister, Barfield, Janish, Shirley - they're all on the same page. Grifol doesn't seem to be in the information chain, or he has a horrible way of not giving out private information. 

[TaylorStSox]

3 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

So Moncada hasn't been on the team since April 9th even though he's still in the dugout, clubhouse and is still getting checks from the White Sox. Got it. 

Yeah, I don't think one guy who's played 9 games sulking in the corner makes for a toxic clubhouse. I don't think a player described as lazy, but happy go lucky makes for a toxic clubhouse. 

A toxic clubhouse is Tim Anderson and Grandal getting into fist fights. A toxic clubhouse is Lance Lynne throwing his teammates under the bus to the press. A toxic clubhouse is one segregated. There's zero evidence this year's clubhouse is like that.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The problem is that they suck, not that the clubhouse is toxic. 

Like I said in the beginning, not wanting to introduce Thorpe to a losing culture makes sense. The Sox clearly have a losing culture. That doesn't mean the clubhouse is "toxic." They're very distinct things.

They are.  And yet the ones who say it are being ignored here.

[TaylorStSox]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They are.  And yet the ones who say it are being ignored here.

Nobody's being ignored. They've just made poor arguments. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

Nobody's being ignored. They've just made poor arguments. 

What is the exact time period this needs to be repeated within to meet those standards? 

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Yeah, I don't think one guy who's played 9 games sulking in the corner makes for a toxic clubhouse. I don't think a player described as lazy, but happy go lucky makes for a toxic clubhouse. 

A toxic clubhouse is Tim Anderson and Grandal getting into fist fights. A toxic clubhouse is Lance Lynne throwing his teammates under the bus to the press. A toxic clubhouse is one segregated. There's zero evidence this year's clubhouse is like that.

I've even read reporting that this year's clubhouse is fine. Maybe it's not, and they're all just saying that to hold off the wolves. 

Everybody's calling Moncada lazy, who injured himself trying to beat out an infield single. 

26 guys don't have to like each other to a man. There's always going to be a couple guys who have their own pace. 

[chitownsportsfan]

It's all downstream of losing, always has been. Win some games and you will become a bit of a destination. We saw that briefly in 2021.

[Dick Allen]

I couldn't care less how great anyone thinks the clubhouse is when the record is 17-50. Apparently, it isn't that important. 

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I couldn't care less how great anyone thinks the clubhouse is when the record is 17-50. Apparently, it isn't that important. 

Correct. What clubhouse has been "good" at 17-50? It almost would be more alarming if the clubhouse WAS in a good spot at 17-50. It shouldn't be. 

[WhiteSox2023]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I couldn't care less how great anyone thinks the clubhouse is when the record is 17-50. Apparently, it isn't that important. 

Give me a shitty clubhouse of assholes that wins 100 games.  Instead, we get guys that are always injured and their desire to actually play is questionable at best.

Edited June 11 by WhiteSox2023

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

Give me a shitty clubhouse of assholes that wins 100 games.  Instead, we get guys that are always injured and their desire to actual play is questionable at best.

We have a bad mix of guys that try "too hard" like Vaughn and Kopech and guys that are too happy go lucky and aren't focused like Eloy and at times Robert and Moncada. 

Of course we also have a 50 win team on paper. Nobody could motivate or win with these bums. 

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It's all downstream of losing, always has been. Win some games and you will become a bit of a destination. We saw that briefly in 2021.

And we won't have an actual "data" on how this clubhouse is until after the trade deadline, when maybe somebody will go on a run with their new team and have to explain themselves.