tray Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 I understand he is related to the great Jim Thorpe, a true legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 16 minutes ago, tray said: I understand he is related to the great Jim Thorpe, a true legend. I should have said that I heard someone say that but I have not found anything that would confirm that. Nonetheless, Thorpe looks like he going to be a great pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Which just goes to show that half or more of them will likely bust. Once upon a time, Stiever was a SP prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 46 minutes ago, Quin said: Once upon a time, Stiever was a SP prospect Well, exactly. And that’s precisely the point. Stiever was a top 5 prospect for the Sox but outside of one good half season in Winston-Salem his minor league numbers were very pedestrian. Juan Carela, who is barely inside the T30, has put up better minor league numbers and seems to have better pure stuff than Stiever ever had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 35 minutes ago, Quin said: Once upon a time, Stiever was a SP prospect Stiever was drafted in 2018. Same with Pilkington. At this point in the last rebuild, we didn't have them. Alec Hansen, if I remember correctly, kinda fizzled once he made it to AA. Fulmer was always kind of shitty even in the short time he spent in the minors before coming up. I agree with everyone who points out most of the guys we have now will not reach their best case scenario and there will be a lot of busts.. and you're all right that they did have a lot of pitching last rebuild. But this group is deeper (maybe less top end talent)... And, without looking at the stats, it seems like they are all performing better in the minors than the previous rebuild. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) 22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: So I am supposed to believe you know more than these guys do? Let's hear your credentials. credentials: I am just a lifetime fan of the White Sox. I get most of my info from tuned in fans on this site along with a couple other podcasts. I also could be off base on the current White Sox team having a toxic clubhouse. For the 2024 season your mention of this is the first I have heard of it. Not his exact words but Chuck Garfein mentioned on I believe Monday pregame that the Sox clubhouse is great, but the fans want wins to go along with it. Edited June 12 by Falstaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_Kuntz Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Thoughts on Thorpe: Beckham didn't mention it until the 5th, but you could see his athleticism immediately, from the first play where he covered first base on a grounder to Vaughn. The last play he made was ridiculous. This also translates into one of the most simple and repeatable deliveries you will see. Every pitch slots exactly the same. He is fast and efficient to the plate, and his plus pickoff move is guided by very quick feet. I thought he actually gave Maldonaldo a chance to throw out Rodriguez both times, where there probably isn't even throw with 90% of pitchers on this roster. His weakness, obviously, is that fastball is 92 and doesn't move a ton. He's gotta be able to spot it consistently. If he can do that, I think he'll be very good. The change is obviously a weapon, and it seemed like his breaking balls were pretty meh last night, although it seems like he's several different ones. I'd like to see him develop a two seamer that runs a bit. Overall an exciting opening performance. he will take some lumps this year for sure if he stays up. But he is much more ready than the other rookie pitchers imo, and should have some successes along with struggles. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Based on what Thorpe displayed last night, a right handed Mark Buehrle seems an appropriate analogy. Doesn’t even matter what Iriarte, Zavala, and Wilson do if Thorpe becomes Buehrle 2.0. Would be a massive win in the Cease trade. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 29 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Based on what Thorpe displayed last night, a right handed Mark Buehrle seems an appropriate analogy. Doesn’t even matter what Iriarte, Zavala, and Wilson do if Thorpe becomes Buehrle 2.0. Would be a massive win in the Cease trade. Buehrle 2.0 would be a great addition. But it is just game 1. Let's see how he is after his 10th start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 I feel like he was pretty amped up as he was overthrowing a decent amount of the game and was losing some movement, but man when he was right on the change up, it had almost a knuckleball drop off as it got to the plate, and no one recognized it when right. I do like he doesn't throw it super often, which keeps you honest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, Rusty_Kuntz said: Thoughts on Thorpe: Beckham didn't mention it until the 5th, but you could see his athleticism immediately, from the first play where he covered first base on a grounder to Vaughn. The last play he made was ridiculous. This also translates into one of the most simple and repeatable deliveries you will see. Every pitch slots exactly the same. He is fast and efficient to the plate, and his plus pickoff move is guided by very quick feet. I thought he actually gave Maldonaldo a chance to throw out Rodriguez both times, where there probably isn't even throw with 90% of pitchers on this roster. His weakness, obviously, is that fastball is 92 and doesn't move a ton. He's gotta be able to spot it consistently. If he can do that, I think he'll be very good. The change is obviously a weapon, and it seemed like his breaking balls were pretty meh last night, although it seems like he's several different ones. I'd like to see him develop a two seamer that runs a bit. Overall an exciting opening performance. he will take some lumps this year for sure if he stays up. But he is much more ready than the other rookie pitchers imo, and should have some successes along with struggles. Yeah guy just looks the part, strong frame and lower half and can really move/show agility when he needed to. If he can develop some more cut on that cutter and maybe work in a sinker at some point to pair with that change he'll really be able to keep guys off balance. Even those few cutters he threw last night that didn't look like he had good control on induced a couple fly outs in deeper counts. I know Padres fans were not keen on giving him up and thought he might already be better than Cease (they've all changed their tune since Cease has dominated). But looks like we got a decent one back for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 The thing I like most about him is he's different and you don't see a lot of different in today's game. He's an out getter. His other pitches play up off that outstanding changeup. He left one ball out over the plate that was hit hard for a double and the Big Dumper was able to keep his hands back just long enough to somehow keep that ball fair but besides that it was just a bunch of weak contact. Weak grounders and lazy flyballs. He has a couple things he has to work on but once he learns what works and what doesn't at the big league level he's going to be carving fools up with that change. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 6 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: The thing I like most about him is he's different and you don't see a lot of different in today's game. He's an out getter. His other pitches play up off that outstanding changeup. He left one ball out over the plate that was hit hard for a double and the Big Dumper was able to keep his hands back just long enough to somehow keep that ball fair but besides that it was just a bunch of weak contact. Weak grounders and lazy flyballs. He has a couple things he has to work on but once he learns what works and what doesn't at the big league level he's going to be carving fools up with that change. 100% Pretty refreshing to see a young guy come up that isn't just trying to beat you with velo and throwing a ball through a wall, but actually pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 I liked what I saw. mechanics look good and his demeanor on the mound was outstanding. I think his constant struggle is going to be trying to amp up 2-3 mph of fastball speed to keep his other pitches honest. I would rather him be pinpoint at 91 with it and mix in MORE changeups and cutters. At the very worst he will be a solid #4 type for many years as he should be low on the injury concerns. He won't be an ace, but with Schultz and maybe Crochet (if he stays) he wont need to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_Kuntz Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 34 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: The thing I like most about him is he's different and you don't see a lot of different in today's game. He's an out getter. His other pitches play up off that outstanding changeup. He left one ball out over the plate that was hit hard for a double and the Big Dumper was able to keep his hands back just long enough to somehow keep that ball fair but besides that it was just a bunch of weak contact. Weak grounders and lazy flyballs. He has a couple things he has to work on but once he learns what works and what doesn't at the big league level he's going to be carving fools up with that change. Yeah he should be an innings eater who when he's on can get outs quickly and easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, SCCWS said: Buehrle 2.0 would be a great addition. But it is just game 1. Let's see how he is after his 10th start. I’m not saying he’s destined for a borderline HOF career, I’m just saying his style of pitching is very similar (including his seemingly elite defense for a pitcher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 14 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: I liked what I saw. mechanics look good and his demeanor on the mound was outstanding. I think his constant struggle is going to be trying to amp up 2-3 mph of fastball speed to keep his other pitches honest. I would rather him be pinpoint at 91 with it and mix in MORE changeups and cutters. At the very worst he will be a solid #4 type for many years as he should be low on the injury concerns. He won't be an ace, but with Schultz and maybe Crochet (if he stays) he wont need to be. I think you’re underselling his potential. I think his potential is Mark Buehrle. Was Buehrle ever an “ace”? Depends who you ask but dude racked up 52 fWAR over his career, which is better than most modern day aces will accomplish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Obviously a very different pitcher than Cease, but his frame, demeanor and athleticism reminded me a bit of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, SCCWS said: Buehrle 2.0 would be a great addition. But it is just game 1. Let's see how he is after his 10th start. That's an interesting name to come up because I remember reading years ago that one of the things that took Mark from a decent pitcher to a great pitcher was his ability to field his position better than anyone else in baseball at the time. He saved himself a ton of runs by being a groundball pitcher who served as an extra infielder. Thorpe looked like that on a couple of plays last night. He didn't mess around covering first, and he also made every play he need, plus the one spectacular play. If that is who he is, he can save himself a lot of runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 32 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: I liked what I saw. mechanics look good and his demeanor on the mound was outstanding. I think his constant struggle is going to be trying to amp up 2-3 mph of fastball speed to keep his other pitches honest. I would rather him be pinpoint at 91 with it and mix in MORE changeups and cutters. At the very worst he will be a solid #4 type for many years as he should be low on the injury concerns. He won't be an ace, but with Schultz and maybe Crochet (if he stays) he wont need to be. So far, he has done nothing to assume he can't be an ace. Hes a top 50 prospect, his production in the minors was outstanding, he has an elite off speed pitch. Just because he doesn't throw 98 doesn't mean he can't be an ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 I thought Thorpe was good to great at times last night. Thought his stuff looked good, but you could visibly see he was shaking his head with some of his off speed pitches, due to the fact he was probably a bit amped still. Change up is devastating, fields his position well, and I think he probably could have gone 6 if his defense helped him out. Those two errors cost him 20 pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCredeYes Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 23 minutes ago, T R U said: So far, he has done nothing to assume he can't be an ace. Hes a top 50 prospect, his production in the minors was outstanding, he has an elite off speed pitch. Just because he doesn't throw 98 doesn't mean he can't be an ace. If my memory serves Maddux sat around 90-93. Of course he had insane movement and a ridiculous curveball, but velo is not the be all end all if you can have elite control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, JoeCredeYes said: If my memory serves Maddux sat around 90-93. Of course he had insane movement and a ridiculous curveball, but velo is not the be all end all if you can have elite control. He had some mid 90s back in the day, but he also got like 8 inches off of each corner too. That stuff doesn't exist today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 dude was pitching in his ML debut for the worst team in baseball, and still managed to leave the game w/ the lead. once he's settled in, that's when you'll start to be able to grade him. he had to be nervous as fk last night lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) 22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: He had some mid 90s back in the day, but he also got like 8 inches off of each corner too. That stuff doesn't exist today. maddux was pretty bad in his first full season, FIP 4.50, ERA 5.61, WHIP 1.64, HR/9 about 1. that was 1987. he had a cup of coffee in 1986, 31IP, numbers were about the same after maddux 2nd season, he was more/less dominant every single year until 2003 and he was still pretty good that year my point being, it's way too early to start overanalyzing Thorpe. he doesn't have the experience, plus he probably won't have the tutelage here either, which is unfortunate. i kinda wish they would fire Grifol and just promote santos Edited June 12 by joejoesox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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