Texsox Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Friend and family hire from the TLR days. Worst staff in baseball. No improvements. Blown leads. But, he's working with no talent. Seems to be the modern guy in a 20th Century franchise. We know Pedro isn't the guy when we have a better roster, are any of the coaches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I don't care one way or the other but there's a total of about $5 invested in this pitching staff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 11 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said: I don't care one way or the other but there's a total of about $5 invested in this pitching staff. All the same reasons that are in the Ozzie thread about Pedro are valid for Katz. I'm just curious how he became the Teflon coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Texsox said: Friend and family hire from the TLR days. Worst staff in baseball. No improvements. Blown leads. But, he's working with no talent. Seems to be the modern guy in a 20th Century franchise. We know Pedro isn't the guy when we have a better roster, are any of the coaches? No, a complete housecleaning is needed. Edited June 13 by The Mighty Mite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, Texsox said: Friend and family hire from the TLR days. Worst staff in baseball. No improvements. Blown leads. But, he's working with no talent. Seems to be the modern guy in a 20th Century franchise. We know Pedro isn't the guy when we have a better roster, are any of the coaches? Crochet and Fedde are the feathers in his cap, pretty clearly. Flexen, much better than last season. Did anyone expect miracles from Soroka or Shuster? Definitely not the pitching rich Braves, and Shuster has been better than expected. Cannon pitched very well last night. Nastrini has been a bit of a disappointment, but he might have been overhyped compared to the actually stuff we've seen this year. Clevinger is pitching about as expected for someone who got such a late start, and not nearly as well as 2023, but even outperforming wasn't enough to get him traded because of Hahn's unique contract for him. Thorpe has made HUGE progress moving up through the system. If you really want to blame something on Bannister/Katz, is it going to be Kopech or Leasure? Nah. We'll see how well Michael does on another team soon enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 44 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: No, a complete housecleaning is needed. That's been my thought. The only person fired on the last couple years that I wish they retained was Shelly Duncan. But not so much Shelly as they then eliminated the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 In Context, given how bad the pitching at charlotte was last year, that we traded our best relievers, and the ones added appeared to flounder I'd say it would be hard to have a good bullpen. However, I'd say an actual good pitching coach should be able to pull the floor up beyond this point. If I were Getz, I'd have to say my scouts were a failure. Getting the marginal pieces like bullpen to perform should be where scouts make their money. But ours our bad. They are clearly struggling without someone like Haber helping them with analytics. But as a coach, no reason not to swap out katz based off of this. Well, there is one reason. There is some consistency in coaching between our Pitching coordinator/guy in Bannister and Katz. We've seen some pretty nice performances from players coming up from that system. As we wash away the stink, and the new pitchers come up, it may be worth it. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Seeing as how the minors pitching development has improved significantly, I trust that Bannister will make the right decision on Katz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 39 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Crochet and Fedde are the feathers in his cap, pretty clearly. Flexen, much better than last season. Did anyone expect miracles from Soroka or Shuster? Definitely not the pitching rich Braves, and Shuster has been better than expected. Cannon pitched very well last night. Nastrini has been a bit of a disappointment, but he might have been overhyped compared to the actually stuff we've seen this year. Clevinger is pitching about as expected for someone who got such a late start, and not nearly as well as 2023, but even outperforming wasn't enough to get him traded because of Hahn's unique contract for him. Thorpe has made HUGE progress moving up through the system. If you really want to blame something on Bannister/Katz, is it going to be Kopech or Leasure? Nah. We'll see how well Michael does on another team soon enough. Several did, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 caulfield that's a good post. I think the bullpen being this atrocious though is kinda my red line. You should be able to find something workable, but because our ML scouting is always so bad, I'm open to it being strictly a scouting problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Brian Bannister and Ethan Katz were together in San Francisco. If Bannister wants Katz here, he'll be here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Looking at the pen as a whole, I am not even sure that it isn't doing within a decent level of expected outcomes #1, things really fell apart when Wilson got hurt, as he was kind of the anchor being middle and late innings. His injury forced up some guys, and it hasn't gone well. #2, is anyone surprised MIchael Kopech is still a mental case? #3, Jordan Leasure has struggled a bit when he has gotten into bigger spots, as a rookie, is it that big of a surprise? #4 John Brebbia has had a really hard regression, but he did go from one of the best pitchers parks in MLB to one of the worst. #5 Tanner Banks is still Tanner Banks #6 Justin Anderon is still Justin Anderson #7 Prelander Berroa clearly wasn't ready #8 Dominc Leone wasn't exactly great last year either, and there is a decent chance that his injury could have been a part of it. #9 Sammy Peralta is still Sammy Peralta #10 Jared Shuster has actually been better this year #11Michael Soroka failed as a starter last year, and failed again this year. he has actually brought down his H/9 and HR/9 numbers, but walks and strikeouts have regressed. Not a huge surprise he is bad as he was before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 9 minutes ago, bmags said: caulfield that's a good post. I think the bullpen being this atrocious though is kinda my red line. You should be able to find something workable, but because our ML scouting is always so bad, I'm open to it being strictly a scouting problem. We used to have great scouts...but the numbers are way down due to Covid and budget cuts the last two years...many of the most experienced and expensive vets are gone too. That's all going to trickle down and lead to lower efficiency. Up until 2007/08, they could ALWAYS find low budget but high leverage guys. Think of Marte Gordon Jenks Crain Foulke Howry Takatsu Hermanson Santos Cotts Politte Thornton, to name a few. Then they tried to buy Dotel and Linebrink and they also added a ton of experiments (all the lefties with big stuff/no control and Aardsma) at the end of that great 2003-2006 run. Really feel like other than Robertson and Hendriks...Hahn never picked guys who even earned their contracts. (Especially Kimbrel and Kelly.) And the best scouting finds/signings were on the starting pitcher side, inarguably Rodon Cueto and Clevinger. Basically, they started to rely too much on Hostetler and Haber's computer IMO. Yes lots of names lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Looking at the pen as a whole, I am not even sure that it isn't doing within a decent level of expected outcomes #1, things really fell apart when Wilson got hurt, as he was kind of the anchor being middle and late innings. His injury forced up some guys, and it hasn't gone well. #2, is anyone surprised MIchael Kopech is still a mental case? #3, Jordan Leasure has struggled a bit when he has gotten into bigger spots, as a rookie, is it that big of a surprise? #4 John Brebbia has had a really hard regression, but he did go from one of the best pitchers parks in MLB to one of the worst. #5 Tanner Banks is still Tanner Banks #6 Justin Anderon is still Justin Anderson #7 Prelander Berroa clearly wasn't ready #8 Dominc Leone wasn't exactly great last year either, and there is a decent chance that his injury could have been a part of it. #9 Sammy Peralta is still Sammy Peralta #10 Jared Shuster has actually been better this year #11Michael Soroka failed as a starter last year, and failed again this year. he has actually brought down his H/9 and HR/9 numbers, but walks and strikeouts have regressed. Not a huge surprise he is bad as he was before. Nastrini in quite limited action might be the biggest disappointment...but his stuff has apparently regressed a tick or two from most accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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