The Light at the End of the Tunnel

[Falstaff]

6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The odds of any of these pitchers being as good as crochet is about .01%.

You won't get an argument out of me, Crochet is a thing of beauty. 

Listening to the podcasts I am hearing Noah Schultz is unhittable at AA, with Bannister's tutelage I can't wait to see him up in Chicago in the next year or two.

[coldwatersox]

Unless the plan is to build towards contention no sooner than 2029 why trade Crochet? or, Fedde? Every contending team is built on a stable of strong starting pitching. Crochet and Fedde are top of the rotation pitchers. Add Thorpe and Cannon and another arm to the mix and the Sox can be contenders. As to the remainder of the roster, cut Benintendi now and primarily use Fulks, Roberts, and Phamm in the outfield with Sheets, Colas, and Fletcher as depth. Stay with DeJong and Lopez up the middle, the former for both his bat and glove and the latter for his defense. Vaughn remains at first base alternating on off days with Sheets. Remain with Eloy at DH and pray for an uninterrupted season of play. Same for Moncada at third with help from Mendick and Sosa. DFA Maldonado at once and use Lee daily. Altrenatively, foolishly trade Crochet, Fedde, and Roberts and receive a collection of future stars and prospects few if any of whom will attain their perceived potential. By the way, team control of Crochet remains for two plus years and if Jerry dies before that date new ownership will pay market value for a proven Crochet. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, coldwatersox said:

Unless the plan is to build towards contention no sooner than 2029 why trade Crochet? or, Fedde? Every contending team is built on a stable of strong starting pitching. Crochet and Fedde are top of the rotation pitchers. Add Thorpe and Cannon and another arm to the mix and the Sox can be contenders. As to the remainder of the roster, cut Benintendi now and primarily use Fulks, Roberts, and Phamm in the outfield with Sheets, Colas, and Fletcher as depth. Stay with DeJong and Lopez up the middle, the former for both his bat and glove and the latter for his defense. Vaughn remains at first base alternating on off days with Sheets. Remain with Eloy at DH and pray for an uninterrupted season of play. Same for Moncada at third with help from Mendick and Sosa. DFA Maldonado at once and use Lee daily. Altrenatively, foolishly trade Crochet, Fedde, and Roberts and receive a collection of future stars and prospects few if any of whom will attain their perceived potential. By the way, team control of Crochet remains for two plus years and if Jerry dies before that date new ownership will pay market value for a proven Crochet. 

Let me have what he's drinking...I want to get loaded too. ? 

[chitownsportsfan]

50 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

 

I'd clear the entire deck other than Bannister and Katz. Those guys have earned chances, everybody else has not, coaches and management.

[kitekrazy]

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look we can stomp our feed and rage and act like we have some sort of power over management, but we all know that there is a very close to zero change that Jerry Reinsdorf reverses 40+ years of his contract philosophies and gives a huge extension for Crochet.  If you go back and think of all of the big pitchers we have had over the years, expecting Garrett to be different just because you are mad isn't going to work.

It's simple.  White Sox fans can't have nice things as long as JR is the owner.   He's created a habitual losing small market franchise.  If you look at his history as the owner you can make a nice list of fans can't have nice things.

[hi8is]

The light at the end of the tunnel is a fucking freight train approaching quickly that will run your ass over and put an end to your misery.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

The light at the end of the tunnel is a fucking freight train approaching quickly that will run your ass over and put an end to your misery.

Cheer up Trev. Thing will turn around. If you have trouble with the curves that life throws at you just be ready for the fat fastball down the middle when life throws you that.

[RTC]

On 6/13/2024 at 8:55 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So I am hoping that the glimmer of light I see at the end of the tunnel is actually a ray of hope and not another train barreling in our direction to obliterate the the run of good fortune and progress we have seen. After all Jerry Reinsdorf is still the guy in charge.

Chugga chugga choo choo!

[Ducksnort]

48 minutes ago, RTC said:

Chugga chugga choo choo!

This is how he starts all of his meetings.

[JoeC]

3 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

This is how he starts all of his meetings.

This is his job offer letter to Getz.

 

[Highland]

An oncoming train has already hit us, and it has flattened us like a pancake. Like a pancake, it has flattened us.

[soxfan49]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:07 AM, Quin said:

The problem is that it's very, very easy to see a light at the end of this tunnel:

1. They have an ace (Crochet), mega-tool star CF (Robert), starting catcher (Lee) and their top prospect is a power-hitting lefty shortstop (Montgomery). That's basically the four hardest spots to fill.
   1. Honorable mention: Vaughn may be coming alive? June could also be an aberration, but 1B offense is down this year.
2. Then they have absurd depth building at SP: Thorpe, Schultz, Cannon, Nastrini (yeah, he's having a rough time), Iriarte, Bush, Eder, Adams, Taylor, Pallette, Keener, Gowens, Batista and Carela. That's not even counting Burke or Martin.
3. Bryan Ramos has made his debut. Quero is turning it around. Wolkow is all-tooled up. Baldwin is on fire. Gonzalez has turned it around this year.
   1. I'm going to personally throw Colas in there because his approach seems different this year. I also acknowledge that Fletcher could always revert to his prior career numbers.
4. The Sox look like they'll get something nice at #5.

So, on paper, that all looks fantastic. Especially that pitching depth. But...

1. They once had an ace on a Hall of Fame track (Sale), a top #2 (Quintana), cornerstone 1B (Abreu), top SS prospect (Anderson) and RF putting up amazing numbers (Eaton). That core failed miserably.
2. Outside of Thorpe, Cannon and Nastrini (all very fresh rookies), all of that depth is in the minors. They can still bust. Giolito and Kopech were both #1 SP prospects in baseball (or Kopech was at least #1 RHP). They failed Lopez as a starter. Cease and Rodon were in house.
   1. Much like last time, the relief depth isn't inspiring. Hahn spent that wad of cash after acquiring or drafting so many young relief prospects and they all busted. I assume some of the starters would be converted or traded off.
3. They had a position core oozing talent after the last sell-off — so why would a new one, developed by the same guy as last time — turn out any differently?
   1. Burke looked good last year and is cratering. Ellis has reached the majors, but he needs a hit tool to stick. Terrell Tatum is hitting poorly. Zach DeLoach is meh.
4. As we've seen, high draft picks aren't guaranteed.
5. Most importantly: Jerry didn't spend the fucking money on two superstars that were falling into their lap. Getz is gonna convince him otherwise?

Last go around I'd have been super optimistic, but this team has beaten the optimism out of me.

 

Is Montgomery a positive though? I haven't been following the organization as closely as I have in the past but from most accounts he's been a problem this year

[vilehoopster]

21 hours ago, coldwatersox said:

Unless the plan is to build towards contention no sooner than 2029 why trade Crochet? or, Fedde? Every contending team is built on a stable of strong starting pitching. Crochet and Fedde are top of the rotation pitchers. Add Thorpe and Cannon and another arm to the mix and the Sox can be contenders. As to the remainder of the roster, cut Benintendi now and primarily use Fulks, Roberts, and Phamm in the outfield with Sheets, Colas, and Fletcher as depth. Stay with DeJong and Lopez up the middle, the former for both his bat and glove and the latter for his defense. Vaughn remains at first base alternating on off days with Sheets. Remain with Eloy at DH and pray for an uninterrupted season of play. Same for Moncada at third with help from Mendick and Sosa. DFA Maldonado at once and use Lee daily. Altrenatively, foolishly trade Crochet, Fedde, and Roberts and receive a collection of future stars and prospects few if any of whom will attain their perceived potential. By the way, team control of Crochet remains for two plus years and if Jerry dies before that date new ownership will pay market value for a proven Crochet. 

I agree with this guy 100%. I say this over and over here. Let's keep our nice things. 

I kind of cracks me up that people say we only have 2 1/2 year of control of Crochet. What a wonderful 2 1/2 years that will be watching him throw strike out after strike out in a Sox uniform. Absolutely let's keep him and Fedde too. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Highland said:

An oncoming train has already hit us, and it has flattened us like a pancake. Like a pancake, it has flattened us.

That's the whole history of the franchise but every so often they rise above it. At least we have some good pitching prospects. Im skeptical that Robert and Crochet will be traded by the deadline so the bats we need may not be coming soon but we'll see what happens .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I agree with this guy 100%. I say this over and over here. Let's keep our nice things. 

I kind of cracks me up that people say we only have 2 1/2 year of control of Crochet. What a wonderful 2 1/2 years that will be watching him throw strike out after strike out in a Sox uniform. Absolutely let's keep him and Fedde too. 

You always have to push ahead to build a team especially when you're a terrible team. Where are the other good players going to come from ?

Selfishly Id love to keep Crochet but realistically when you're dealing with often injured players like Robert and Crochet you keep waiting and expecting those injuries to keep them off the field just as they have with Moncada, Eloy and Robert. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and strive towards future wins rather than a few moments of titillation watching a few guys doing great with nothing else around them. The Sox aren't going to spend there way back into contention that's for damn sure. Strike for those future wins while the iron is hot.

Edited June 15 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[pcq]

If you doubled the Sox record they would be 36-106.

[Quin]

2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

Is Montgomery a positive though? I haven't been following the organization as closely as I have in the past but from most accounts he's been a problem this year

That's why I've got him in my "things look good" portion, despite his overall hitting not looking the best so far this year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, Quin said:

That's why I've got him in my "things look good" portion, despite his overall hitting not looking the best so far this year.

Either has his fielding though also.

[tray]

23 hours ago, coldwatersox said:

Unless the plan is to build towards contention no sooner than 2029 why trade Crochet? or, Fedde? Every contending team is built on a stable of strong starting pitching. Crochet and Fedde are top of the rotation pitchers. Add Thorpe and Cannon and another arm to the mix and the Sox can be contenders. As to the remainder of the roster, cut Benintendi now and primarily use Fulks, Roberts, and Phamm in the outfield with Sheets, Colas, and Fletcher as depth. Stay with DeJong and Lopez up the middle, the former for both his bat and glove and the latter for his defense. Vaughn remains at first base alternating on off days with Sheets. Remain with Eloy at DH and pray for an uninterrupted season of play. Same for Moncada at third with help from Mendick and Sosa. DFA Maldonado at once and use Lee daily. Altrenatively, foolishly trade Crochet, Fedde, and Roberts and receive a collection of future stars and prospects few if any of whom will attain their perceived potential. By the way, team control of Crochet remains for two plus years and if Jerry dies before that date new ownership will pay market value for a proven Crochet. 

100% !

Cub fans always want the Sox to trade their best talent and tank. Oh sure, just wallow in perpetual rebuilding mode with a bevy of prospects, most of whom will never pan out. It's such a foolish short-sighted strategy, especially with the change in the Draft protocol.   No need to continually kick the can down the road and depress the fan base with promises made that cannot ever be kept. 

The chance of having numerous prospects from trades blossom in a crescendo that results is a WS  championship is a fool's mission. There are 30 teams all trying to get better every year.  For the WSox, the focus should be on improving year after year in order to stay competitive.  When and if the team becomes good enough to contend for a WS championship, then it's time to salt the roster with a few players to help get there, like the White Sox did in 2005.

[southsider2k5]

The Sox, as they stand today, are the least talented organization from top to bottom in MLB.  Full stop.

All of these fantasies of some how accumulating enough talent into the system in the next 2 to 3 years to make Crochet and Robert matter, knowing full well we won't spend in Latin America,  the high end free agent market, and the inability to get a top 10 pick next year is just absurd.  You have to get talent from somewhere and with all of the doors the Sox artificially close, the trade market is about it.  

The Sox need to make up 50 games in 2 years, otherwise we lose Crochet for nothing without a playoff chance.  That's just insane.

[soxfan49]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

That's why I've got him in my "things look good" portion, despite his overall hitting not looking the best so far this year.

If he's been not good this year, why would you have him in your "things look good" portion?

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox, as they stand today, are the least talented organization from top to bottom in MLB.  Full stop.

All of these fantasies of some how accumulating enough talent into the system in the next 2 to 3 years to make Crochet and Robert matter, knowing full well we won't spend in Latin America,  the high end free agent market, and the inability to get a top 10 pick next year is just absurd.  You have to get talent from somewhere and with all of the doors the Sox artificially close, the trade market is about it.  

The Sox need to make up 50 games in 2 years, otherwise we lose Crochet for nothing without a playoff chance.  That's just insane.

Exactly correct, the Sox as far as talent acquisition, go into every year with one hand tied behind their back thanks to JR.

[Tony]

16 hours ago, tray said:

100% !

Cub fans always want the Sox to trade their best talent and tank. Oh sure, just wallow in perpetual rebuilding mode with a bevy of prospects, most of whom will never pan out. It's such a foolish short-sighted strategy, especially with the change in the Draft protocol.   No need to continually kick the can down the road and depress the fan base with promises made that cannot ever be kept. 

The chance of having numerous prospects from trades blossom in a crescendo that results is a WS  championship is a fool's mission. There are 30 teams all trying to get better every year.  For the WSox, the focus should be on improving year after year in order to stay competitive.  When and if the team becomes good enough to contend for a WS championship, then it's time to salt the roster with a few players to help get there, like the White Sox did in 2005.

It’s clear you lack the basic understanding of roster construction and team development. Maybe one day you’ll get it, keep trying 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox, as they stand today, are the least talented organization from top to bottom in MLB.  Full stop.

All of these fantasies of some how accumulating enough talent into the system in the next 2 to 3 years to make Crochet and Robert matter, knowing full well we won't spend in Latin America,  the high end free agent market, and the inability to get a top 10 pick next year is just absurd.  You have to get talent from somewhere and with all of the doors the Sox artificially close, the trade market is about it.  

The Sox need to make up 50 games in 2 years, otherwise we lose Crochet for nothing without a playoff chance.  That's just insane.

Oh look at you saying " knowing full well we won't spend in Latin America. "

I seem to remember you  some disparaging  comment during the last Intl. class signing period when once again I mentioned how little they habitually spend in the DR, the country that produces more baseball talent of any Latin America country for the last 50 years. Maybe you thought I was jumping the gun because all the signings had not been tallied yet but many were and as usual few Dominicans .

Glad to see you recognize that now.