WhiteSox2023 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Quin said: Funny how other teams keep finding room for these players, but we keep holding onto Maldonado, who doesn't even catch our two best pitchers. We have been saying it all season. Getz is the worst 40-man roster manager of all time. Why and how does a guy who used to be a director of player development think that awful vets on one year expiring contracts in an epically horrible losing season are worth more to retain until the end of the season only than any young players for potentially 6+ years? Edited June 21 by WhiteSox2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, Quin said: Funny how other teams keep finding room for these players, but we keep holding onto Maldonado, who doesn't even catch our two best pitchers. They're focusing his limited usage on the pitchers who actually need him. Pedro's a genius like that. </sarc> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 Here's my thing. Your thoughts on Ellis' future aside, he had six years of control and elite speed. Good chances a team with space or lots of dead weight (and a smart GM) take a swing on that. If they knew they were gonna call him up and DFA him because they needed an OF — why the f*** not Mark Payton, who is under control for 1 year? Is that not why he's in the org? It's just more bad asset management. Between Getz and AKME, it's like JR's #1 requirement is "ineptitude at spreadsheets." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, Quin said: Here's my thing. Your thoughts on Ellis' future aside, he had six years of control and elite speed. Good chances a team with space or lots of dead weight (and a smart GM) take a swing on that. If they knew they were gonna call him up and DFA him because they needed an OF — why the f*** not Mark Payton, who is under control for 1 year? Is that not why he's in the org? It's just more bad asset management. Between Getz and AKME, it's like JR's #1 requirement is "ineptitude at spreadsheets." I mean seriously, if Duke learns to hit even a minimal amount, he is a 10 year major league bench player. Yes he is raw and not ready right now, but you can't teach 80 speed. In an era where they basically made stealing 2nd base a gift, a dude like this has value if he can get into the low to mid .200s with an empty average. A soft single is basically a double in the scorebook with his speed. Besides that, yes, you absolutely do this roster dance with a career MiLB guy you don't care about losing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 It's a weird move for baseball reasons and for not baseball reasons. Why would they talk about on the broadcast that "he's a big part of the future" after he got sent down and why would MLB.com publish that Merkin puff piece about the Duke? Maybe he's been betting on baseball. Only excuse there could be. Maybe he did something Jorge Lopez-esque behind the scenes. Maybe an opposing GM develops early onset Alzheimers and confuses Chuckie Robinson for Jackie Robinson and makes a very lopsided trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Bummer. I liked Ellis, even if he was just used once in each game - let him steal 150 bags. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I mean seriously, if Duke learns to hit even a minimal amount, he is a 10 year major league bench player. Yes he is raw and not ready right now, but you can't teach 80 speed. In an era where they basically made stealing 2nd base a gift, a dude like this has value if he can get into the low to mid .200s with an empty average. A soft single is basically a double in the scorebook with his speed. Besides that, yes, you absolutely do this roster dance with a career MiLB guy you don't care about losing. Maybe it was nerves but he didn’t do a damn thing right in his mlb cup of coffee. If you’re a speed and defense guy you can’t get picked off second base and make errors in the outfield. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 33 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Maybe it was nerves but he didn’t do a damn thing right in his mlb cup of coffee. If you’re a speed and defense guy you can’t get picked off second base and make errors in the outfield. I mean yeah, but that's what happens when a GM plucks a non-ready kid with like 50 games worth of experience at AA up into the majors and have him do the things that Pedro did. You aren't really putting him a position to understand what is going on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 38 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Maybe it was nerves but he didn’t do a damn thing right in his mlb cup of coffee. If you’re a speed and defense guy you can’t get picked off second base and make errors in the outfield. It's funny cause Maldonado is an ancient vet and hasn't done a damn thing right all year and this move preserved his roster spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Just now, Quin said: It's funny cause Maldonado is an ancient vet and hasn't done a damn thing right all year and this move preserved his roster spot. Look I would even have been OK if Chuckie was signed and brought up to replace Moldy, and we just went with a Quero for a 3rd catcher, or saw who was available on the street if one of our other guys got hurt, but Moldy is just historically bad, but apparently has nudes of Getz somehow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I mean yeah, but that's what happens when a GM plucks a non-ready kid with like 50 games worth of experience at AA up into the majors and have him do the things that Pedro did. You aren't really putting him a position to understand what is going on. You shouldn’t get picked off second base in high school baseball let alone when you’re 26 years old and have been playing the game for 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Also a good reason bringing up someone like Baldwin from AA would be pretty much insane. Let them play and win together, if nothing else, if provides Merkin something to write about every couple of weeks. Sergio Santos on White Sox Double-A affiliate (mlb.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: You shouldn’t get picked off second base in high school baseball let alone when you’re 26 years old and have been playing the game for 20 years. The game is a bit different between AA and MLB, which is the entire point. You know the whole bigger, faster, stronger thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: You shouldn’t get picked off second base in high school baseball let alone when you’re 26 years old and have been playing the game for 20 years. You should be able to follow the simple mantra of "young, learning and under long term cheap control is better than old, bad and not under control" but Getz and AKME can't grasp this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: You shouldn’t get picked off second base in high school baseball let alone when you’re 26 years old and have been playing the game for 20 years. You can rip on Ellis all you want. It still doesn’t explain or justify Getz’s awful roster management at all. Not sure why you can’t admit this and have to attack the player that doofus Getz cut when he still has hot garbage like Maldonado on the roster. Edited June 21 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You can rip on Ellis all you want. It still doesn’t explain or justify Getz’s awful roster management at all. Not sure why you can’t admit this and have to attack the player that doofus Getz cut when he still has hot garbage like Maldonado on the roster. It's cause Maldonado is good for pitchers! Ignore the fact that they're all bombing, except the two that don't use him and that Cannon's best start was caught by Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, Quin said: It's cause Maldonado is good for pitchers! Ignore the fact that they're all bombing, except the two that don't use him and that Cannon's best start was caught by Lee. Does CERA still exist? Anyone have those numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Just now, Quin said: It's cause Maldonado is good for pitchers! Ignore the fact that they're all bombing, except the two that don't use him and that Cannon's best start was caught by Lee. I don’t even like Ellis much, but in a losing season, you don’t dump a 26 year old to keep the worst catcher in history on your roster with an expiring contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The game is a bit different between AA and MLB, which is the entire point. You know the whole bigger, faster, stronger thing. Meh. It’s a mental mistake that simply can’t happen, especially when your biggest asset is your baserunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Meh. It’s a mental mistake that simply can’t happen, especially when your biggest asset is your baserunning. Except it does happen. Guys get picked off. And it is going to happen more often to guys who aren't ready to be in the majors when they are called up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You can rip on Ellis all you want. It still doesn’t explain or justify Getz’s awful roster management at all. Not sure why you can’t admit this and have to attack the player that doofus Getz cut when he still has hot garbage like Maldonado on the roster. Maldonado will be gone soon enough. He’s irrelevant and plays a completely different position than Ellis. Neither guy matters to the white sox this year or beyond. People complaining just to complain. Kinda like when there was a 20 page thread about how awful it was of Getz to DFA Jose Rodriguez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Just now, southsider2k5 said: Except it does happen. Guys get picked off. And it is going to happen more often to guys who aren't ready to be in the majors when they are called up. He’s 26 years old. How long do you want to wait until he’s “ready”? Truth is that dude will never be ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: He’s 26 years old. How long do you want to wait until he’s “ready”? Truth is that dude will never be ready. He's played like 50 games at AA. Again, there is a massive difference between Winston Salem and Chicago when it comes to the skill of their opponents. Duke is effectively learning AA speed, and got thrown to the Wolves at full speed. It's like taking the NCAA champion in the 100 meters, and putting him into an Olympic heat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 20 minutes ago, Quin said: It's cause Maldonado is good for pitchers! Ignore the fact that they're all bombing, except the two that don't use him and that Cannon's best start was caught by Lee. according to Fangraphs, Maldonado is ranked 101st out of 102 in "framing". 96th in "defensive runs saved". Is he any good at calling pitches? My instinct says no, he seems to call for the wrong pitch quite often (and pitchers should be calling it themselves anyway). I think anyone with a brain would have seen value in building chemistry between Lee/Quero and the various pitchers instead of expecting Maldonado to develop them. We all make mistakes but someone without an ego would have cut Maldonado a long time ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Maldonado will be gone soon enough. He’s irrelevant and plays a completely different position than Ellis. Neither guy matters to the white sox this year or beyond. People complaining just to complain. Kinda like when there was a 20 page thread about how awful it was of Getz to DFA Jose Rodriguez. Based on the information we had, it was a stupid decision to make. Turns out he was gambling and got suspended, but why would a rebuilding team (that's going to lose anyway) prioritize untradeable old guys over minor leaguers who have demonstrated some kind of skillset that might translate to the Majors? What's the rush on these guys? Aside from being on the 40man, that is. But considering both guys got added before Rule 5, you have to wonder why they got added to the 40man in the first place, particularly Ellis. It made sense in the context that he'd oscillate between majors/minors like Ramos, not get cut a week after making his debut. If there was a real 40man roster crunch, maybe he's the odd man out, but there's so many guys on this team that aren't helping us now and won't help us later, so why keep them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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