Saw a reference to this NY Times/Athletic article posted here last fall...but even if just 25% of what Dave Wilder asserted was true,

[caulfield12]

the entire organization is even MORE hopeless than any could have imagined.  It's almost unbelievable, but what does he really have to gain here because he was clearly never going to get another job in MLB (maybe abroad, Korea/Japan) no matter what???   White or black, that avenue was cut off as he was made an example out of.  His reputation was already described, and if that wasn't enough, there was the channeling of monies to Club Burn (gay bar) in the Phoenix area.   Even in the sports world of today (look at all the arguments over the WNBA in recent weeks and months), that was just a massive "double hit" that was never going to be overcome at the ownership level (Dusty Baker was seemingly the only figure in baseball at all who reached out to him.)

It has now been 16 years since the Dominican buscones/skimming scandal, and almost nothing has changed with the Sox being able to scout/evaluate Dominicans.

Ironically, the two best were accidental (Tatis Sr. directing his son towards the Sox first) and Eloy Jimenez coming over in the Quintana trade.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4853621/2023/09/12/white-sox-exec-bonus-skimming/

Edited June 17 by caulfield12

[ron883]

hmm

[southsider2k5]

Am I missing something here, or is there nothing new here and this is just a rehash of 9 months ago?

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Am I missing something here, or is there nothing new here and this is just a rehash of 9 months ago?

If there's already a thread, it's not very easy to locate by just typing Dave Wilder into search...and now you guys are back to arguing about the reasons for the lack of productivity again from the Dominican Republic, pretty sure it was Rafael Santana who was originally tasked with cleaning that mess up.

But it hardly gets mentioned what has actually happened down there in the last 15 years.

Jerry Krause was working as a scout in Brazil near the end of his life, they were "sorta" productive with Andre Rienzo and Anderson Gomes, but that first wave apparently dried up or they moved on after Krause's death.

 

https://www.southsidesox.com/minors/2013/2/11/3975216/the-tawdry-tangled-history-of-the-white-sox-latin-american-operations

 

Louis Silverio has also been with the White Sox for some time, first as a player from 2014-2018, then as a Director of the team’s Dominican Republic Academy from 2018-2022. He is taking this new Manager role with looks to be an expansion beyond just responsibilities in the Dominican Republic...(this Silverio is not related to the one from the Wilder/original skimming scandal).

But we have hardly heard a THING about that time period at the White Sox Dominican training academy.  It's almost like a black hole...that sucks everything into its vortex but almost nothing productive comes out of.

Edited June 17 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If there's already a thread, it's not very easy to locate by just typing Dave Wilder into search...and now you guys are back to arguing about the reasons for the lack of productivity again from the Dominican Republic, pretty sure it was Rafael Santana who was originally tasked with cleaning that mess up.

But it hardly gets mentioned what has actually happened down there in the last 15 years.

Jerry Krause was working as a scout in Brazil near the end of his life, they were "sorta" productive with Andre Rienzo and Anderson Gomes, but that first wave apparently dried up or they moved on after Krause's death.

 

https://www.southsidesox.com/minors/2013/2/11/3975216/the-tawdry-tangled-history-of-the-white-sox-latin-american-operations

 

Louis Silverio has also been with the White Sox for some time, first as a player from 2014-2018, then as a Director of the team’s Dominican Republic Academy from 2018-2022. He is taking this new Manager role with looks to be an expansion beyond just responsibilities in the Dominican Republic...(this Silverio is not related to the one from the Wilder/original skimming scandal).

But we have hardly heard a THING about that time period at the White Sox Dominican training academy.  It's almost like a black hole...that sucks everything into its vortex but almost nothing productive comes out of.

I am still not following what new is being said comparing this pst to the first one.

[caulfield12]

57 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am still not following what new is being said comparing this pst to the first one.

Where is the thread at SoxTalk?

Link?

Guess I was either busy or apathetic last October...or watching the post-season instead.

[Milkman delivers]

OFF TOPIC: 2024 Soxtalk Awards nominee for longest thread title.

ON TOPIC: Just another reason to be embarrassed by this franchise.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

the entire organization is even MORE hopeless than any could have imagined.  It's almost unbelievable, but what does he really have to gain here because he was clearly never going to get another job in MLB (maybe abroad, Korea/Japan) no matter what???   White or black, that avenue was cut off as he was made an example out of.  His reputation was already described, and if that wasn't enough, there was the channeling of monies to Club Burn (gay bar) in the Phoenix area.   Even in the sports world of today (look at all the arguments over the WNBA in recent weeks and months), that was just a massive "double hit" that was never going to be overcome at the ownership level (Dusty Baker was seemingly the only figure in baseball at all who reached out to him.)

It has now been 16 years since the Dominican buscones/skimming scandal, and almost nothing has changed with the Sox being able to scout/evaluate Dominicans.

Ironically, the two best were accidental (Tatis Sr. directing his son towards the Sox first) and Eloy Jimenez coming over in the Quintana trade.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4853621/2023/09/12/white-sox-exec-bonus-skimming/

While I appreciate you posting the article I d say most posters can only read the introductory paragraphs and not the meat of the article .

I would actually appreciate a synopsis of why the organization is more hopeless than previously thought rather than Wilder's motivation for speaking out.

Despite our resident mod /Caulfield basher questioning why you'd make a thread about the Sox on a Sox message board which might be actually informative about the inner workings of things some have very little knowledge about which is none of his business any way. You didn't break any rules. Wether you choose to dignify his question with a response you don't have to defend why you choose to be informative when we got threads about imaginary Saudi investors and he isn't questioning @ron883 motive for posting his thread.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am still not following what new is being said comparing this pst to the first one.

You're something else. Day after day after day people repeat old news.Sox suck, fire Pedro ,fire Getz, Jerry doesn't like dealing in Latin America/DR and you want him to defend himself for making an informative thread just because you think you know it all already?

I'm sorry but there are other readers here who might want to know these things or take a fresh look at it. Soxtalk doesn't exist just for you.

Edited June 17 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Where is the thread at SoxTalk?

Link?

Guess I was either busy or apathetic last October...or watching the post-season instead.

I am just trying to understand what you are trying to say here.

[chitownsportsfan]

27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You're something else. Day after day after day people repeat old news.Sox suck, fire Pedro ,fire Getz, Jerry doesn't like dealing in Latin America/DR and you want him to defend himself for making an informative thread just because you think you know it all already?

I'm sorry but there are other readers here who might want to know these things or take a fresh look at it. Soxtalk doesn't exist just for you.

Sure but the article is pay walled and Caulfield quoted nothing. What are we supposed to be discussing here? We all know Wilder set us back years in Latin America.

[Quin]

To be fair to Caulfield, I can't find the old thread.

Here's snippets i'm assuming he wants to highlight cause they have relevance to today:

Quote

What was your reaction to the news that the White Sox had fired Williams and Hahn, two men you worked with?

Long overdue. I’ve been thinking the last six or seven years: is he asleep up there? Jerry. Because people are talking about dysfunction and that’s been going on for a long time. 

They hired Tony LaRussa, with his background … if Dusty had had 2 DUIs, how would the media have treated him (when they hired him in Houston)? They would have had to have a different manager. There would be protests outside. How do you get hired after your (second) DUI? 

The culture starts with the owner. Not many people know that every time Kenny had to do something he had to go into Jerry’s office and ask permission.

Quote

So Reinsdorf was a hands-on owner, in your opinion?

He sat in on everything. And if he didnt, every meeting they’d take notes and give it to Jerry. Minor league coaches, every Latin or Black coach I wanted to bring in, Jerry would — if they weren’t from the White Sox — usually not be interested. In any business you have, if you have someone who has been successful, I want their ideas. He never asked for ideas. He never said, ‘Dave, you were with Atlanta, what were they doing?’ He was too smart. Nothing has changed.

It was Rick and Kenny to some extent, they don’t have the ability to put together a team the proper way. But the only way they had was the “White Sox Way.” They used to talk about that (White Sox Way) all the time.

We had the owner who doesn’t know s— about baseball telling guys what to do. So the right guys got fired, but if I’m the owner of the team and it’s dysfunctional, it comes down on me. 

Quote

Do you feel like you weren’t valued before you started skimming?

That’s the reason I started doing it. I got passed over for a World Series bonus. The (skimmed) money was negotiated from the buscones and taken from the buscones, not the kids. 

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

To be fair to Caulfield, I can't find the old thread.

Here's snippets i'm assuming he wants to highlight cause they have relevance to today:

It got buried into here for some reason.

 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

It got buried into here for some reason.

 

Better starting point.  Caulfied even commented.  I am just curious what is new today.

 

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It got buried into here for some reason.

 

For some odd reason, the entire article was available here in China through VPN, even though the NY Times is officially banned.

[Iwritecode]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

While I appreciate you posting the article I d say most posters can only read the introductory paragraphs and not the meat of the article .

Before you scroll down just do a cntl-A and copy everything. Then post it into a document of some sort. It's all there.

[Iwritecode]

Also, this quote made me laugh:

Quote

The culture starts with the owner. Not many people know that every time Kenny had to do something he had to go into Jerry’s office and ask permission.

Yea... pretty much everyone who follows the team knew/knows that.

[caulfield12]

45 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Sure but the article is pay walled and Caulfield quoted nothing. What are we supposed to be discussing here? We all know Wilder set us back years in Latin America.

https://soxmachine.com/2023/09/following-up-david-wilder-takes-shots-at-white-sox/
More quotes here.

[DoUEvenShift]

11 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

Before you scroll down just do a cntl-A and copy everything. Then post it into a document of some sort. It's all there.

You can also disable JavaScript. Quick Google search will show you how, takes 5 seconds

[joejoesox]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

While I appreciate you posting the article I d say most posters can only read the introductory paragraphs and not the meat of the article .

I would actually appreciate a synopsis of why the organization is more hopeless than previously thought rather than Wilder's motivation for speaking out.

Despite our resident mod /Caulfield basher questioning why you'd make a thread about the Sox on a Sox message board which might be actually informative about the inner workings of things some have very little knowledge about which is none of his business any way. You didn't break any rules. Wether you choose to dignify his question with a response you don't have to defend why you choose to be informative when we got threads about imaginary Saudi investors and he isn't questioning @ron883 motive for posting his thread.

https://www.archivebuttons.com/

Paste the link, click the last button at the bottom (12ft.io), on the right hand side

 

Edited June 17 by joejoesox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Sure but the article is pay walled and Caulfield quoted nothing. What are we supposed to be discussing here? We all know Wilder set us back years in Latin America.

Well my 1st post to Caulfield did mention most of us couldn't read anything but the introductory paragraphs and that I'm more interested in the rest of the content. Wilder set us back sure but it not like anything that Paddy's done in the DR has produced any results. Most of the Sox intl signings are from Venezuela. Not exactly the hotbed of talent that the DR hasn't been producing for half a century.

[nrockway]

4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Sure but the article is pay walled and Caulfield quoted nothing. What are we supposed to be discussing here? We all know Wilder set us back years in Latin America.

hot tip I recently learned: there's a Chrome app called "Reader Mode" that bypasses the Athletic's paywall (it doesn't work for every site). You just have to click on the extension before the site loads the paywall. 

reading the interview, I think he offers some pretty interesting insights but they're not really about the White Sox organization.  He felt that he was entitled to a bonus from the club, and maybe he was, and that's why he concocted this scheme. The other interesting nugget, I guess, is that he alludes to it being a poorly-funded operation. 

I think what's interesting is his life after prison, how he's basically been kept out of productive work because he's a felon. It makes sense that Dave Stewart couldn't get him a job in the MLB, but US laws also prohibit him from going to Japan or even Canada to work, where he says he has connections.

There was this disgusting article written by the Tribune in 2009 (and now unpublished, credit Wayback Machine) mocking him that he has to earn minimum wage. There is evidently no redemption for "criminals" including the ones who don't even do anything that bad, they steal some money from a baseball team and morally bankrupt buscones, (not Latin kids like the team claims) and now they're done for life. Defrauding rich people is truly the most heinous crime imaginable. 

[WestEddy]

7 hours ago, nrockway said:

There was this disgusting article written by the Tribune in 2009 (and now unpublished, credit Wayback Machine) mocking him that he has to earn minimum wage. There is evidently no redemption for "criminals" including the ones who don't even do anything that bad, they steal some money from a baseball team and morally bankrupt buscones, (not Latin kids like the team claims) and now they're done for life. Defrauding rich people is truly the most heinous crime imaginable. 

edit

Edited June 18 by WestEddy

[WhiteSox2023]

7 hours ago, nrockway said:

hot tip I recently learned: there's a Chrome app called "Reader Mode" that bypasses the Athletic's paywall (it doesn't work for every site). You just have to click on the extension before the site loads the paywall. 

reading the interview, I think he offers some pretty interesting insights but they're not really about the White Sox organization.  He felt that he was entitled to a bonus from the club, and maybe he was, and that's why he concocted this scheme. The other interesting nugget, I guess, is that he alludes to it being a poorly-funded operation. 

I think what's interesting is his life after prison, how he's basically been kept out of productive work because he's a felon. It makes sense that Dave Stewart couldn't get him a job in the MLB, but US laws also prohibit him from going to Japan or even Canada to work, where he says he has connections.

There was this disgusting article written by the Tribune in 2009 (and now unpublished, credit Wayback Machine) mocking him that he has to earn minimum wage. There is evidently no redemption for "criminals" including the ones who don't even do anything that bad, they steal some money from a baseball team and morally bankrupt buscones, (not Latin kids like the team claims) and now they're done for life. Defrauding rich people is truly the most heinous crime imaginable. 

Where did the article ever mock Wilder for making minimum wage?  All I saw was this excerpt:

Quote

Last month, Wilder filed a petition with Family Court in Arizona seeking to lower his child support payments. He indicated he was making $7.25 an hour, or roughly $15,000 a year.

But you do know, many people lie or work cash only jobs to hide their income in an effort to get their child support lowered.

Edited June 18 by WhiteSox2023

[nrockway]

2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Where did the article ever mock Wilder for making minimum wage?  All I saw was this excerpt:

But you do know, many people lie or work cash only jobs to hide their income in an effort to get their child support lowered.

Well I guess the mockery is writing a hit piece about a guy nobody cares about. The story about his failed gay club is kind of funny in a tabloid sort of way but the whole thing really just feels like kicking a guy while he's down. Why should fans care about what he's up to in family court? I don't really care about this guy at all beyond the bonus skimming, I'm certainly not speculating if he's lying to a judge. Although now that I'm thinking about it, a Tribune journalist actually did some journalism work beyond checking twitter for a message from his "source"...the good ol days.