Rosenthal Article on Luis Robert trade value and yes others notice he's injured a lot

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

You nailed it.

Unfortunately you follow the myth of several years away.  Anything could happen.  The "core"  could go on an injury spree or that young arm has TJ surgery.  You treat the actions of improving as a given.  I'd say it happens less and you forget the organization we are talking about.  

We seems to be conditioned to this mindset and seem to ignore the results.  

Like Crochet going down to injury and Robert OPSing around 675-725 for the remainder of the season.

That alone would set the so-called rebuild back by another year ALONE...without that Bobby Witt foundational player to build the franchise around.

 

The obvious problem is that Moncada, Robert, Jimenez, Kopech and even Giolito were supposed to be those core pieces.

Rodon, too, and Anderson.   Although they were the first wave.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

It's a mental illness among fans in the belief trading to get better.  It may work for some organizations but not this one.   I'd say the ones where it works is they improved in scouting and development. 

That's because JR's "philosophy" has given the fan base no other option.

Is he going to spend whatever it takes to win...no

Is he going to invest in international players other than Cuba...no

Is he going to go after game changing, superstar free agents...no

Is he going to change his attitude towards certain agents and their contract demands...no

The only possible way this franchise "may" win under current ownership is to assemble as many 'supposed' good prospects as possible and hope they pan out.

Hope is usually not a winning strategy but literally what else can Sox fans hang their hats on under the circumstances?

So the team keeps Robert and Crochet.

OK...then what? Will keeping those two move the needle towards respectability to say nothing like contention?

Again...NO.

I'd love to keep them but this organization needs so much and without a change in ownership those two aren't going to be around anyway if the kids do come through because JR will not extend them ESPECIALLY if they do play very well.

The fan base much like the organization is between a rock and a hard place.  

[baseball_gal_aly]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d need 60 & 55 FV positional prospects, a 50 FV prospect (a pitcher would be acceptable as the 3rd piece), plus an interesting lottery ticket or two.

Rosenthal just said nobody is going to give up that

[ron883]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Rosenthal just said nobody is going to give up that

Rosenthal can shove his stupid fucking bowtie up his ass

[WhiteSox2023]

43 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Rosenthal can shove his stupid fucking bowtie up his ass

That would be funny to see but why would a team give up a nutload for a player that is currently mediocre as f*** and is constantly injured?  This isn’t like selling an Arenado or Soto in their prime.  Robert is in his prime years but he’s hitting like Leury Garcia and he’s more fragile than Mr. Glass.  The best time to move him would’ve been last year, but the Sox are always a day late and a dollar short.

For the sake of comparison, just look at what happened when the Sox decided to trade Cease after a mediocre 2023 season instead of his amazing 2022 season.  The highest value they received back in the package was one top 100 prospect — #85 Drew Thorpe.

Edited June 21 by WhiteSox2023

[greg775]

9 hours ago, MEANS said:

Your Trolling is slacking this year….just like the 2024 White Sox 

Gee, sorry to consider Abreu a great player. How can anybody argue the Sox appear disinterested in keeping stars around (Robert, Crochet)?

[greg775]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Like Crochet going down to injury and Robert OPSing around 675-725 for the remainder of the season.

That alone would set the so-called rebuild back by another year ALONE...without that Bobby Witt foundational player to build the franchise around.

 

The obvious problem is that Moncada, Robert, Jimenez, Kopech and even Giolito were supposed to be those core pieces.

Rodon, too, and Anderson.   Although they were the first wave.

The Royals NEVER considered dumping Witt. He was part of a miserable team. Now they are winning. They coulda traded him and in theory got 4-5 very good prospects. They didn't. He's now raking. They are winning.

[greg775]

9 hours ago, MEANS said:

Your Trolling is slacking this year….just like the 2024 White Sox 

You can tell the weather is heating up and humidity is up. People have been pretty kind to greg for many months now. Now a few have returned to expressing ire.

[WhiteSox2023]

52 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Gee, sorry to consider Abreu a great player. How can anybody argue the Sox appear disinterested in keeping stars around (Robert, Crochet)?

Greg, of all the impending free agent players that the Sox cheaped out on extending/re-signing, Abreu is the absolutely worst example for you to complain about.  Look at Abreu’s stats in his last season as a White Sox in 2022 (.824 OPS), his first season as an Astros player in 2023 (.680 OPS), and this year when the Astros cut him loose (.362 OPS).  The Sox dumped Abreu at the absolutely perfect time.  The dude was done after 2022, likely because he is 40 rather than 37 years of age.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreujo02.shtml

Edited June 21 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Greg, of all the impending free agent players that the Sox cheaped out on extending/re-signing, Abreu is the absolutely worst example for you to complain about.  Look at Abreu’s stats in his last season as a White Sox in 2022 (.824 OPS), his first season as an Astros player in 2023 (.680 OPS), and this year when the Astros cut him loose (.362 OPS).  The Sox dumped Abreu at the absolutely perfect time.  The dude was done after 2022, likely because he is 40 rather than 37 years of age.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreujo02.shtml

But for every positive, there’s Rodon Hendriks Madrigal Anderson, etc., with zero or negative returns.  Had to sell low on Cease and now Robert.  Nothing for Moncada Jimenez Kopech.

Edited June 21 by caulfield12

[greg775]

14 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Greg, of all the impending free agent players that the Sox cheaped out on extending/re-signing, Abreu is the absolutely worst example for you to complain about.  Look at Abreu’s stats in his last season as a White Sox in 2022 (.824 OPS), his first season as an Astros player in 2023 (.680 OPS), and this year when the Astros cut him loose (.362 OPS).  The Sox dumped Abreu at the absolutely perfect time.  The dude was done after 2022, likely because he is 40 rather than 37 years of age.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/abreujo02.shtml

Fair enuf. However devil's advocate could say sign Abreu for old time's sake and put him at DH 4 days a week and 1B the other 2. He gets one day off. Our offense is so bad it won't matter. He can't be worse than Maldy. Release Maldy and let Lee catch every day.

Edited June 21 by greg775

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Fair enuf. However devil's advocate could say sign Abreu for old time's sake and put him at DH 4 days a week and 1B the other 2. He gets one day off. Our offense is so bad it won't matter. He can't be worse than Maldy. Release Maldy and let Lee catch every day.

Already made that mistake with Konerko and Contreras, which is partially why JR pushed Buehrle into FA with Miami in 2012.  So he wouldn't have to play the bad guy for not signing a franchise icon.

[Sarava]

It feels like you're selling really low right now on Luis. Unless he gets white hot in the next few weeks, I doubt we will like any of the offers.

[Snowy Demon]

10 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d need 60 & 55 FV positional prospects, a 50 FV prospect (a pitcher would be acceptable as the 3rd piece), plus an interesting lottery ticket or two.

You may need to wait a long time for that.  A free agent compensation pick will be likely if the White Sox hold out for this return.  

[Tnetennba]

21 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

Completely agree. Beyond the salary stuff being ridiculous, it also made comments about how teams won't see him as valuable because they'll be playing him in a corner rather than CF. And the one example they used was Julio Rodriguez, who is an objectively worse defender than Robert unless you're only looking at this year's ~20 game sample.

 

The injury concerns are extremely valid but this felt too over the top to be a standard trade rumor article from neutral sources.

Julio can stay healthy, and is far better near the wall. I'd need to see the defensive metrics, but having watched both a ton, Julio is the superior CF. And that isn't a knock on Robert's defense at all.

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Julio can stay healthy, and is far better near the wall. I'd need to see the defensive metrics, but having watched both a ton, Julio is the superior CF. And that isn't a knock on Robert's defense at all.

Looking at Fangraphs' 2023 data, they rank Roberts among the best CFers in the game, while Julio is middle of the pack good. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&pos=cf&sortcol=20&sortdir=default&qual=y

[baseball_gal_aly]

12 hours ago, ron883 said:

Rosenthal can shove his stupid fucking bowtie up his ass

Lol

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

Julio can stay healthy, and is far better near the wall. I'd need to see the defensive metrics, but having watched both a ton, Julio is the superior CF. And that isn't a knock on Robert's defense at all.

Robert has actually figured out how to play the wall the last couple of years.  He has a highlight reel out there for HR steals.

[Tnetennba]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Robert has actually figured out how to play the wall the last couple of years.  He has a highlight reel out there for HR steals.

Robert has definitely improved near the wall, no argument there. I still think Julio is the better defender in CF, and he has played in nearly the same amount of games in < 3 years as Robert has in almost 5. Again, I don't say any of this as a knock on  Robert. I were starting a franchise from scratch, I'd probably choose Robert, but if he and Julio were on the same team, I'm not moving Julio out of CF.

 

[nrockway]

13 hours ago, ron883 said:

Rosenthal can shove his stupid fucking bowtie up his ass

that guy is the ultimate shill, somehow a bigger boob than Boob himself. Somehow it passes as journalism in 2024 to say "well, other teams want to trade for a player but don't want to give up all that much". riveting content, nerd. 

[pcq]

Robert is kind of cazzh as fans know. Never plays with an edge. 

[Leonard Washington]

6 hours ago, pcq said:

Robert is kind of cazzh as fans know. Never plays with an edge. 

If only he played with the way you cazzh