WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: So again you are back to trying to hold both positions that we weren't supposed to be this bad, but we were only this bad because of the injuries, even though the entire world knew injuries were a long part of all three of their histories, as well as bad performances by guys who are either regressing or not progressing, all while ignoring we also got crazy good production from guys that was 100% not expected such as Crochet, Feede, and Lee that should have more than balanced some of this out and thus returned us to just "bad", and things could have actually been way worse than they actually are? Even if the idea was that this was just going to be "bad" there still isn't the incentive to churn the roster to the extent it was. Bad teams are thinking of development and evaluation of kids too, and we haven't done that, except where we didn't have a choice. This is the quote I'm responding to from the hysterical one: Quote And now, of course, "It was always the plan to be historically terrible." Lol I'm not reliving yesterday's argument. P4P is making s%*# up to argue against. I believe that's called a strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Yeah, and I know you have been mad lately, but here you go. Again. Oh God, the big three injury excuse again… Meanwhile, two of those guys are back and they are still on a historic pace of losing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Fletcher isn’t ready? Dude will be 27 in a couple months. He played last year and hit well in a small sample size. Getz obviously thought he was the real deal to give up Mena for him. If Fletcher isn’t ready now, he’ll never be ready. Which would mean he was a bad acquisition. My point was you just made up a complete and utter bullshit excuse for two of Getz’s acquisitions — that they somehow tanked with their bats cuz they had to play CF. Nope. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Oh God, the big three injury excuse again… Meanwhile, two of those guys are back and they are still on a historic pace of losing. Here's the question you and Southsider won't answer: Are you actually saying that if Yoan, Eloy and Robert stayed healthy and played all the games, and if Benintendi and Vaughn had rebound years and OPSed a passable .700-.750, they'd still be 21-81? I'll leave this here. I'm tired of playing your argument games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Nope. Try again. I don’t care to. It’s sad. I wish I had a boss like you that had zero expectations of me as an employee. But I guess that’s probably just like the relationship between Reinsdorf and Getz. As long as Getz is loyal to JR, his results don’t matter much. Job for life. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 28 minutes ago, WestEddy said: You can stop taking wild guesses at what I think anytime you're ready. You complain about my posting, I'm guessing because you read it, yet it still hasn't sunk in, yet, that I don't think Getz planned on a 120+ loss season. This entire discussion erupts once a week in one string, or another. Yet, there's always the guy who is flabbergasted that "I think Getz was planning a World Series parade" by signing Maldonado, DeJong, Flexen, and trading for Soroka and Lopez. You seem angry. Perhaps you should deal with your anger issues separate from your problem with projection. Here's what I actually think: 1) Getz thought this team would be merely bad. 2) 3 injuries and multiple key slumps shot this team through the floor. 3) The rotation and bullpen were thrown together to find players to flip, with effectiveness a secondary concern. 4) It's foolish to think that ~$12m spent on Fedde, Flexen and Soroka is wasted money. It was throwing multiple arms at the wall to see if one popped, then trade him. It worked. $12m for about 4WAR at mid-point is an incredible deal. 5) win-loss record no longer matters at this point. Nobody actively frets about the 2003 Tigers, or the rebuilding Astros who lost over 110 3 years in a row. The Astros were even an internet meme, with how bad they were. I don't see videos of White Sox players stumbling over each other all over Twitter. So respond or not, it doesn't matter. You're not having an argument with me. You seem to be screaming at made up people who are saying things you made up. Have fun with that. The Sox should have become an internet meme back in the early days of the rebuild as well. They didn't bottom out enough back then and never got the 1.1 pick multiple years. Totally cratering with 3 or 4 or 5 100 loss seasons in a row would have helped the rebuild big time. It is how you end up with dudes like Bregman, Correa, and Ruschtmann instead of Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: I don’t care to. It’s sad. I wish I had a boss like you that had zero expectations of me as an employee. But I guess that’s probably just like the relationship between Reinsdorf and Getz. As long as Getz is loyal to JR, his results don’t matter much. Job for life. The Chicago White Sox don't "work" for me. They are an entertainment option. I am as frustrated with the losing as anybody else, here. I'm actually a pretty cool boss. I worked with my employees to get good results. I didn't make up things to whine all day every day about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, LittleHurtCG said: The Sox should have become an internet meme back in the early days of the rebuild as well. They didn't bottom out enough back then and never got the 1.1 pick multiple years. Totally cratering with 3 or 4 or 5 100 loss seasons in a row would have helped the rebuild big time. It is how you end up with dudes like Bregman, Correa, and Ruschtmann instead of Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn. They sure screw up those draft picks, didn't they? The only meme-level screw-up I remember was Beckham tackling Gillaspie during a pop-up to the mound. The Astros had dozens of those moments during their 3-year long 110+ loss streak. Guys running into each other during routine groundballs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Here's the question you and Southsider won't answer: Are you actually saying that if Yoan, Eloy and Robert stayed healthy and played all the games, and if Benintendi and Vaughn had rebound years and OPSed a passable .700-.750, they'd still be 21-81? I'll leave this here. I'm tired of playing your argument games. No one with fucking basic common sense and reason would have expected Yoan, Eloy, and Robert to stay healthy so why do you keep bringing up this garbage? Benintendi was terrible last year as well and Vaughn has been mediocre every year of his career. Why the hell are you banking on injury-prone and mediocre players? Their record would be better but they would still be terrible. Congrats, I guess? You want a cookie? Edited June 27 by WhiteSox2023 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 9 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Here's the question you and Southsider won't answer: Are you actually saying that if Yoan, Eloy and Robert stayed healthy and played all the games, and if Benintendi and Vaughn had rebound years and OPSed a passable .700-.750, they'd still be 21-81? I'll leave this here. I'm tired of playing your argument games. lol, won't answer, you are really getting desperate here. I have said all along, that if you plans for being respectable were built on the backs of players who literally average missing half of every season, you can't then use them as an excuse when they are indeed missing for half of a season. But yes, if all three players had done something they had literally never done before in their careers and play healthy and productive full seasons, this team would have been better. And again, while you concentrate on something that had always happened to the bad side, you are full ignoring the three huge breakout seasons happening to the upside which were totally unpredictable, and weren't being planned on. So if Lee and Fedde had the seasons they have always had, and Crochet had the injury and effectiveness he had always had, would they still have been on a 90-100 loss pace? Oh right. This team is only here because of the aforementioned bad things that happened to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: No one with fucking basic common sense and reason would have expected Yoan, Eloy, and Robert to stay healthy so why do you keep bringing up this garbage? Benintendi was terrible last year as well and Vaughn has been mediocre every year of his career. Why the hell are you banking on injury-prone and mediocre players? Their record would be better but they would still be terrible. Congrats, I guess? You want a cookie? Just like I thought. You are afraid to answer that question. You and SS play argument games about who said what, and "oh that excuse". We've already established that saying "everybody knew" doesn't magically put all three back on the field. It's an argumentative technique to take that reason off the table. We banked on injury prone and mediocre players because.... wait for it... they're under contract. Crazy, huh? I know, in WS2023 fantasyland, you just cut everybody, eat millions upon millions in payroll, and go "get" all the best players and we all live happily ever after. That's a great plan. I'll just keep asking this, and you'll just keep running scared: Quote Are you actually saying that if Yoan, Eloy and Robert stayed healthy and played all the games, and if Benintendi and Vaughn had rebound years and OPSed a passable .700-.750, they'd still be 21-81? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: lol, won't answer, you are really getting desperate here. I have said all along, that if you plans for being respectable were built on the backs of players who literally average missing half of every season, you can't then use them as an excuse when they are indeed missing for half of a season. But yes, if all three players had done something they had literally never done before in their careers and play healthy and productive full seasons, this team would have been better. And again, while you concentrate on something that had always happened to the bad side, you are full ignoring the three huge breakout seasons happening to the upside which were totally unpredictable, and weren't being planned on. So if Lee and Fedde had the seasons they have always had, and Crochet had the injury and effectiveness he had always had, would they still have been on a 90-100 loss pace? Oh right. This team is only here because of the aforementioned bad things that happened to it. There we go. Thank you for not wasting any more of our time. Scouting Lee and Fedde isn't something lucky that dropped out of the sky. Crochet finally being fully healthy isn't magical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Just now, WestEddy said: There we go. Thank you for not wasting any more of our time. Scouting Lee and Fedde isn't something lucky that dropped out of the sky. Crochet finally being fully healthy isn't magical. I wish I could say the same 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) I don’t need to play any fantasy day-dreaming “what if?” game with this team. The truth is in the standings at MLB.com. I see a team that is on pace to finish with a worse record than the 2003 Detroit Tigers. Your “what if?” game means nothing, but I’m sure JR, Getz, and Grifol would love to use it as an excuse. Edited June 27 by WhiteSox2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: I don’t need to play any fantasy day-dreaming “what if?” game with this team. The truth is in the standings at MLB.com. I see a team that is on pace to finish with a worse record than the 2003 Detroit Tigers. Your “what if?” game means nothing, but I’m sure JR, Getz, and Grifol would love to use it as an excuse. Oh man my taxes are due, I am totally broke and can't pay my rent. Why didn't you plan for that, your taxes are due literally every single year? Yeah, but I had to pay my taxes and that took all of my money. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: There we go. Thank you for not wasting any more of our time. Scouting Lee and Fedde isn't something lucky that dropped out of the sky. Crochet finally being fully healthy isn't magical. I've read the last 3 pages of this thread and still have no idea what you are trying to argue here. What are you "defending" and what do you believe you are arguing against? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, Tony said: I've read the last 3 pages of this thread and still have no idea what you are trying to argue here. What are you "defending" and what do you believe you are arguing against? The only guess I have is — “nothing is Getz’s fault.” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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