WestEddy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 SoxMachine did a nice write-up of how the Bummer trade has turned out, so far. Hint: it's a wash depending on what Gowens becomes. https://soxmachine.com/2024/06/the-aaron-bummer-trade-scorecard-hasnt-been-worth-keeping/#google_vignette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Hard to get excited by Shuster when he’s K’ing less than six per nine. Honestly, it looks like we got a whole lot of nothing with Gowens the one wild card. It’s very clear to me that Hahn blew it by not dealing Bummer at the 2023 deadline. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Hard to get excited by Shuster when he’s K’ing less than six per nine. Honestly, it looks like we got a whole lot of nothing with Gowens the one wild card. It’s very clear to me that Hahn blew it by not dealing Bummer at the 2023 deadline. Any idea what Bummer would have brought back then? Something similar to Graveman or Middleton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 8 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Any idea what Bummer would have brought back then? Something similar to Graveman or Middleton? Fathom suggested there were legitimate offers, probably a bit better than what we got for those two. Probably nothing crazy, but my guess something better than the market Getz had to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 31 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Hard to get excited by Shuster when he’s K’ing less than six per nine. Honestly, it looks like we got a whole lot of nothing with Gowens the one wild card. It’s very clear to me that Hahn blew it by not dealing Bummer at the 2023 deadline. Yep, Shuster's BWAR is totally luck driven. His ERA is more than a full run lower than his FIP and his expected ERA and expected FIP are much worse than his FIP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 7 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said: Yep, Shuster's BWAR is totally luck driven. His ERA is more than a full run lower than his FIP and his expected ERA and expected FIP are much worse than his FIP. I honestly thought Shuster would be one of the DFAs in the few flurries of moves then. He was horrible starting at AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 The Braves got a viable middle reliever The White Sox got a handful of garbage and a 24 year old A ball pitcher who is doing decent. The Braves definitely won this trade in terms of performance. That being said, even if we get nothing out of any of these guys I wouldn't say we lost this trade since it was time to move on from Bummer anyways and he was a decent middle reliever, so whatever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 42 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said: Yep, Shuster's BWAR is totally luck driven. His ERA is more than a full run lower than his FIP and his expected ERA and expected FIP are much worse than his FIP. Spot on. Only 19 strikeouts and a poor 1.42 WHIP in 31 innings. Shuster’s 3.48 ERA is the ball finding Sox gloves. He’s bad but lucky. Gowens has some nice strikeout numbers but he will be a 25 year old finishing Single A. I don’t see too much to be excited about but he’s the only player of value they got back. Soroka, Lopez, and Shewmake are all terrible and should be gone after this season. Hahn or Getz probably could have received a better return for Bummer by going for quality (1 or 2 prospects) instead of quantity like Getz went for, just to fill roster spots cheaply (and poorly). Edited June 27 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 52 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Any idea what Bummer would have brought back then? Something similar to Graveman or Middleton? Isn't that what we basically got in Givens? I realize that Bummer's FIP was a run < than his ERA, but he was also walking 5+/9. I find it hard to believe that teams were ponying up much for 5+ walks in a pennant race. I get offseason, where you have an entire Spring to work with him. In the end, we got several players who had a chance to be decent plus a prospect. The prospect appears to be decent, while the players not so much. Soroka might even be figuring it out (4 decent outings in a row) although he still has a lot to prove. I'd either let him start a couple of games, or use him in more pressure situations. He does the Sox no good if they can't move him. All in all, I can't complain about the Bummer trade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 The Sox got a collection of lottery tickets in return for Bummer. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 9 hours ago, GreenSox said: Isn't that what we basically got in Givens? I realize that Bummer's FIP was a run < than his ERA, but he was also walking 5+/9. I find it hard to believe that teams were ponying up much for 5+ walks in a pennant race. I get offseason, where you have an entire Spring to work with him. In the end, we got several players who had a chance to be decent plus a prospect. The prospect appears to be decent, while the players not so much. Soroka might even be figuring it out (4 decent outings in a row) although he still has a lot to prove. I'd either let him start a couple of games, or use him in more pressure situations. He does the Sox no good if they can't move him. All in all, I can't complain about the Bummer trade. That's what I'm thinking. If Gowens goes to AA after the TDL, he's basically on route to maybe hit the bigs in the later half of 2025. If he winds up being a power bullpen arm, and Shuster eats innings during the troubles, I think it's a low level win for the Sox. If something happens with Soroka, all the better. We all hated Bummer. He had weird bad luck. There's certain players that you just can't take the "dog ate my homework" outings anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Soroka in his last four appearances has struck out 16 in 8.2 IP with a 1.04 ERA and .484 OPS against, though. He did actually look pretty damn good against the Dodgers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 7 hours ago, 4OCS said: Soroka in his last four appearances has struck out 16 in 8.2 IP with a 1.04 ERA and .484 OPS against, though. He did actually look pretty damn good against the Dodgers His walks bury him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 9 hours ago, 4OCS said: Soroka in his last four appearances has struck out 16 in 8.2 IP with a 1.04 ERA and .484 OPS against, though. He did actually look pretty damn good against the Dodgers He's actually been a totally different guy out of the pen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 The Bummer trade was the definition of quantity over quality. Naperville Nicky has been exactly what he has been and what we expected. Soroka was terrible as a starter and is better out of the pen but still meh. Shuster has been okay but his walks to strikeout ratio is not good. Shewmake started out decent and fell off a damn cliff. And Gowens is still an unknown. At the time of the trade, I was optimistic a player or two would work out. I was hopeful that a change of scenery would benefit Soroka, but he will probably never return to form after the injuries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 19 hours ago, JoeC said: The Sox got a collection of lottery tickets in return for Bummer. Except like, instead of PowerBall it was more gas station scratch lottos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 6 minutes ago, Quin said: Except like, instead of PowerBall it was more gas station scratch lottos. Come on lemon's! Come on lemon's! D'oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 8 minutes ago, Quin said: Except like, instead of PowerBall it was more gas station scratch lottos. Which honestly is more than I expected in a trade for Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 22 minutes ago, hogan873 said: The Bummer trade was the definition of quantity over quality. Naperville Nicky has been exactly what he has been and what we expected. Soroka was terrible as a starter and is better out of the pen but still meh. Shuster has been okay but his walks to strikeout ratio is not good. Shewmake started out decent and fell off a damn cliff. And Gowens is still an unknown. At the time of the trade, I was optimistic a player or two would work out. I was hopeful that a change of scenery would benefit Soroka, but he will probably never return to form after the injuries. Yeah, there were at least 3 guys in that deal that were likely going to be non-tendered the next day if not traded (Soroka, Shewmake, Nicky). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 45 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Yeah, there were at least 3 guys in that deal that were likely going to be non-tendered the next day if not traded (Soroka, Shewmake, Nicky). Yep. Braves needed 40-man spots and they didn't want to pay Soroka and Nicky for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 11 hours ago, 4OCS said: Soroka in his last four appearances has struck out 16 in 8.2 IP with a 1.04 ERA and .484 OPS against, though. He did actually look pretty damn good against the Dodgers Soroka at times either looks like he's about to figure things out and return to greatness or be out of baseball soon. He does have real good stuff in sports. Don't know if it's a hot gun but he got the fastball to 97 98 a few times hasn't he ? His curve/slider/sweeper has good horizontal movement too. Who here knows where to find stats about his stuff ? Usually there's stats like that after every appearance somewhere online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Soroka at times either looks like he's about to figure things out and return to greatness or be out of baseball soon. He does have real good stuff in sports. Don't know if it's a hot gun but he got the fastball to 97 98 a few times hasn't he ? His curve/slider/sweeper has good horizontal movement too. Who here knows where to find stats about his stuff ? Usually there's stats like that after every appearance somewhere online. His average fastball velocity is higher this season than during any other season in his career. I’m sure part of that has to do with half his outings being in relief. Relief pitchers are weird. Some guys that absolutely suck as starters end up being very good relievers in their late 20s or early 30s. He’s only 26 still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I have no idea if contending teams will buy into Soroka’s recent resurgence as a reliever but if the Sox can swing him for a 40 FV type prospect that’s better than I thought they’d get for him back in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I have no idea if contending teams will buy into Soroka’s recent resurgence as a reliever but if the Sox can swing him for a 40 FV type prospect that’s better than I thought they’d get for him back in April. That's honestly a pretty good call about a dude no one has talked about much. He has been impressive as a reliever. Maybe a low budget team looks at him as a cheaper target than an established reliever. He is a free agent after this season, so you have to imagine the Sox take any offer at all for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, southsider2k5 said: That's honestly a pretty good call about a dude no one has talked about much. He has been impressive as a reliever. Maybe a low budget team looks at him as a cheaper target than an established reliever. He is a free agent after this season, so you have to imagine the Sox take any offer at all for him. At best it’s probably a Middleton type return (Carela) but I’d still take it and be happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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