God Bless our Veterans

[sox4lifeinPA]

In the most respectful way I can say it, thank you for the bank holiday! woohoo!

 

I needed a tuesday off:)

[SuperSteve]

No day off for me. I had an exam today too. For some reason, MSU never has a day off. It's a pain in the ass.

[Queen Prawn]

No day off for me. I had an exam today too. For some reason, MSU never has a day off. It's a pain in the ass.

No day off for me - work work work as usual...

[mmmmmbeeer]

Question...why don't veterans get veterans day off? I'm a veteran and it was nice watching the veterans day parade from my window at work, but it just didn't feel right. It was like sitting at work on your birthday knowing that everyone is eating, drinking, and celebrating your birthday party back at the house.

[SuperSteve]

Question...why don't veterans get veterans day off?

That's a brain-buster.

[mreye]

Question...why don't veterans get veterans day off?  I'm a veteran and it was nice watching the veterans day parade from my window at work, but it just didn't feel right.  It was like sitting at work on your birthday knowing that everyone is eating, drinking, and celebrating your birthday party back at the house.

They should.

 

And, thank you!

[Chisoxfn]

I wish I had the day off. Went to school, then work for a bit now I got to do some serious studying the next two days.

 

Yet I find myself here, its addicting

[Be Good]

YUP god bless em and they should :begood as well

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Happy Armistice Day everybody.

[DBAHO]

We had Rememberance Day down here yesterday but it ain't a public holiday. Still happy Veterans Day.

[BridgeportHeather]

No day off for me. I had an exam today too. For some reason, MSU never has a day off. It's a pain in the ass.

Most colleges are like that...Get used to it.

 

This is a time to think back and remember the freedom our veterans have given us and constantly restore. If it weren't for their help, this might not have been the best country in the world like it is.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

November 11, is the anniversary of the Armistice which was signed in the Forest of Compiegne by the Allies and the Germans in 1918, ending World War I, after four years of conflict.

At 5 A.M. on Monday, November 11, 1918 the Germans signed the Armistice, an order was issued for all firing to cease; so the hostilities of the First World War ended. This day began with the laying down of arms, blowing of whistles, impromptu parades, closing of places of business. All over the globe there were many demonstrations; no doubt the world has never before witnessed such rejoicing.

 

Let's not forget that the origins of the celebration was that it was a peace holiday to celebrate 'the war to end all wars'. Kind of odd that we're celebrating a peace holiday during a time of militarism.

 

I would say that the things our corporate controlled government has done are at best shameful and at worst genocidal but there's an incredible and permanent culture of resistance in the country that I'm very proud to be a part of. It's not the tradition of slave owning Founding Fathers, it's the tradition of the Frederick Douglasses, the Underground Railroads, the Chief Josephs, the Joe Hills, and the Huey P. Newtons. There's so much to be proud of when you're American that's hidden from you. The incredible courage and bravery of the union organizers in the late 1800s and early 1900s -- that's amazing. People get tricked into going overseas and fighting Uncle Sam's Wall Street wars, but these are people who knew what they were fighting for here at home. I think that is so much more courageous and brave.

--Tom Morello

[SoxFanForever]

Yeah, I miss grade school when we got Pulaski day off too. God bless the Chicago area and having the second largest polish population in the world.

[YASNY]

November 11, is the anniversary of the Armistice which was signed in the Forest of Compiegne by the Allies and the Germans in 1918, ending World War I, after four years of conflict. 

At 5 A.M. on Monday, November 11, 1918 the Germans signed the Armistice, an order was issued for all firing to cease; so the hostilities of the First World War ended.  This day began with the laying down of arms, blowing of whistles, impromptu parades, closing of places of business.  All over the globe there were many demonstrations; no doubt the world has never before witnessed such rejoicing.

 

Let's not forget that the origins of the celebration was that it was a peace holiday to celebrate 'the war to end all wars'.  Kind of odd that we're celebrating a peace holiday during a time of militarism.

 

I would say that the things our corporate controlled government has done are at best shameful and at worst genocidal but there's an incredible and permanent culture of resistance in the country that I'm very proud to be a part of.  It's not the tradition of slave owning Founding Fathers, it's the tradition of the Frederick Douglasses, the Underground Railroads, the Chief Josephs, the Joe Hills, and the Huey P. Newtons.  There's so much to be proud of when you're American that's hidden from you.  The incredible courage and bravery of the union organizers in the late 1800s and early 1900s -- that's amazing.  People get tricked into going overseas and fighting Uncle Sam's Wall Street wars, but these are people who knew what they were fighting for here at home.  I think that is so much more courageous and brave.

--Tom Morello

There are all kinds of heroes. The veterans are as well. Here's to them.

[BrandoFan]

Art Carney died today. In his bio they mentioned he partook in D-Day and had a humogous piece of his leg blown off by shrapnel.

 

Gotta love and respect what these brave men and women do/did if ONLY because I can't imagine myself doing it.

 

Big military HOLLA!

 

 

Oh, and raise their fuking pension and benefits, fer christ's sake!!

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

November 11, is the anniversary of the Armistice which was signed in the Forest of Compiegne by the Allies and the Germans in 1918, ending World War I, after four years of conflict. 

At 5 A.M. on Monday, November 11, 1918 the Germans signed the Armistice, an order was issued for all firing to cease; so the hostilities of the First World War ended.  This day began with the laying down of arms, blowing of whistles, impromptu parades, closing of places of business.  All over the globe there were many demonstrations; no doubt the world has never before witnessed such rejoicing.

 

Let's not forget that the origins of the celebration was that it was a peace holiday to celebrate 'the war to end all wars'.  Kind of odd that we're celebrating a peace holiday during a time of militarism.

 

I would say that the things our corporate controlled government has done are at best shameful and at worst genocidal but there's an incredible and permanent culture of resistance in the country that I'm very proud to be a part of.  It's not the tradition of slave owning Founding Fathers, it's the tradition of the Frederick Douglasses, the Underground Railroads, the Chief Josephs, the Joe Hills, and the Huey P. Newtons.  There's so much to be proud of when you're American that's hidden from you.  The incredible courage and bravery of the union organizers in the late 1800s and early 1900s -- that's amazing.  People get tricked into going overseas and fighting Uncle Sam's Wall Street wars, but these are people who knew what they were fighting for here at home.  I think that is so much more courageous and brave.

--Tom Morello

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. I knew you would do this. You go and take a holiday honoring American veterans and use it to smear the Bush Administration. I know you don't like George Bush and I really dont give a s***. This holiday is not about politics it's about honoring those who have served their country, something you are unwilling to do be it for cowardice, self service, dislike of America or whatever.

 

American veterans earned their holiday and nobody wants to hear your shrill criticisim of the Bush administration in the same context. If I sound like I'm taking this personally its cause I am.

 

:fyou

[Queen Prawn]

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.  I knew you would do this.  You go and take a holiday honoring American veterans and use it to smear the Bush Administration.  I know you don't like George Bush and I really dont give a s***.  This holiday is not about politics it's about honoring those who have served their country, something you are unwilling to do be it for cowardice, self service, dislike of America or whatever. 

 

American veterans earned their holiday and nobody wants to hear your shrill criticisim of the Bush administration in the same context. If I sound like I'm taking this personally its cause I am. 

 

:fyou

I'm a little lost, where did he mention the Bush Admin? Not trying to be a smartass, just trying to follow the conversation in this thread.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I'm a little lost, where did he mention the Bush Admin?  Not trying to be a smartass, just trying to follow the conversation in this thread.

Calling our government "corporate controlled" and "genocidal". What a douche bag.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

November 11, is the anniversary of the Armistice which was signed in the Forest of Compiegne by the Allies and the Germans in 1918, ending World War I, after four years of conflict. 

At 5 A.M. on Monday, November 11, 1918 the Germans signed the Armistice, an order was issued for all firing to cease; so the hostilities of the First World War ended.  This day began with the laying down of arms, blowing of whistles, impromptu parades, closing of places of business.  All over the globe there were many demonstrations; no doubt the world has never before witnessed such rejoicing.

 

Let's not forget that the origins of the celebration was that it was a peace holiday to celebrate 'the war to end all wars'.  Kind of odd that we're celebrating a peace holiday during a time of militarism.

 

I would say that the things our corporate controlled government has done are at best shameful and at worst genocidal but there's an incredible and permanent culture of resistance in the country that I'm very proud to be a part of.  It's not the tradition of slave owning Founding Fathers, it's the tradition of the Frederick Douglasses, the Underground Railroads, the Chief Josephs, the Joe Hills, and the Huey P. Newtons.  There's so much to be proud of when you're American that's hidden from you.  The incredible courage and bravery of the union organizers in the late 1800s and early 1900s -- that's amazing.  People get tricked into going overseas and fighting Uncle Sam's Wall Street wars, but these are people who knew what they were fighting for here at home.  I think that is so much more courageous and brave.

--Tom Morello

I need to have some more fun with this one.

 

That's some peace holiday you have there. All the end of WW1 did was close the curtain on the opening act of the bloodiest century in human history. WW1 was just a warmup.

 

Those historical figures you mentioned are all great americans to be sure and yes they knew what they were fighting for but all of them put together can't hold an American soldiers dirty underwear. We are the ones that apply foot to ass to ensure that there even is an America here for them to live in.

 

We are "tricked into fighting wall streets wars"?

 

Were we tricked into fighting WW1 and WW2. Did our soldiers not know what they were fighting for when they defeated Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan? Does the phrase "make the world safe for Democracy" ring a bell?

 

Were we tricked into fighting Korea and Vietnam? Did we not know what we were fighting for? I DONT f***ING THINK SO. Communisim is by far the most heinous personification of evil mankind has ever borne witness to ( yes it is worse than Fascism, by a magnitude of 10 ). Stopping it's spread was vital to the continued existince of a free world and was justified wherever and however it was accomplished.

 

"Tricked into fighting" Gulf War 1? You leftists whine that that war was all about oil. You're right, it was. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy and having a madman like Saddam Hussein rolling over Kuwait ( and he would have rolled over Saudi too if we hadn't stopped him in his tracks ) and seizing a large portion of the worlds reserves is unacceptable.

 

"Tricked into fighting the war against Terrorism"? I know you really wanted to hand Osama Bin Laden a boquet of flowers when he destroyed those buildings and murdered 3000 people but you live in a twisted fantasy world anyway.

 

"Tricked into fighting in Iraq"? Sorry, wrong again. Our soldiers, myself included, know exactly why we were sent in there. We were sent to stop a madman from developing weapons of mass destruction. That threat is now gone and that nation and the entire region are better off for it.

 

Don't ever tell me that people who serve their country are "tricked" into doing their duty. Don't ever insult my intelligence or that of everyone who served before me. Because you are too cowardly or too self serving or too hateful toward your country to serve it don't insult those who wear the uniform with your outrageous statements.

[Queen Prawn]

Calling our government "corporate controlled" and "genocidal".  What a douche bag.

Okee doke. Just makin' sure I am following the conversation properly.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.  I knew you would do this.  You go and take a holiday honoring American veterans and use it to smear the Bush Administration.  I know you don't like George Bush and I really dont give a s***.  This holiday is not about politics it's about honoring those who have served their country, something you are unwilling to do be it for cowardice, self service, dislike of America or whatever. 

 

American veterans earned their holiday and nobody wants to hear your shrill criticisim of the Bush administration in the same context. If I sound like I'm taking this personally its cause I am. 

 

:fyou

Funny I never mentioned Bush anywhere in there in the previous post. And the corporate controlled and genocidal is true and was actually a statement made when Rage Against the Machine was still together in 1999, before Bush took office...but then again, little things like facts never mattered before to you. Tell me what the people at My Lai did to deserve getting massacred. Tell me what the innocent civilians in Dresden did to deserve what they got. Or how about the thousands of innocents at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

I made a statement that even Smedley Butler [former USMC Commander] would have believed in that corporate interests have a vast influence in the White House and dictate heavily the foreign policy maneuvers that are made by our government.

 

Nuke, may I interject some FACTS into your drivel?

 

WW II. Bush's granddad, Prescott Bush actually was convicted under the Trading With the Enemy Act. But I guess Dubya using the remnants of Nazi fortunes to run for President is nice and Patriotic.

 

And if we want to get into debates about our wars...let's go. The Munich Post as early as Dec. 9, 1931 had stories about the Final Solution. But the US corporations and governments envied the way that the Nazi busted unions [GM actually praised Hitler for his anti-union stance] And let's not forget the racial separatism that was going on in the military while we allowed the lynchings of blacks that tried to vote, race riots [Zoot Suit riots] etc. in America because minorities wanted civil rights yet we were 'making the world safe for democracy'? That's f***ing laughable.

 

And what did we win in Korea? Oh wait, we just had the senseless killing of thousands of people in something that didn't do anything. Vietnam Nuke? 58,000 body bags and 2 million Vietnamese dead? That's what we got.

 

Funny, you say that people should have free and democratic elections...but if they elect a government you don't like then you automatically have the "right" to go in and overthrow it. How does that work? How dare the Vietnamese throw off the French colonialism and declare their independence! Or a better idea, overthrow the democratically elected government of Chile and install a military dictator that tortures, multilates people and throws them out of helicopters for dissent! Yeah that'll make the world safe for democracy and freedom! And let's not forget the big shining lie from Vietnam: The Gulf of Tonkin incident. How can you blindly follow a nation that f***ing lied so 58,000 Americans could be shipped off to die using an event that NEVER f***ING HAPPENED.

 

Gulf War I: The facts actually are that the Kuwaitis were slant drilling into Iraq and stealing Iraqi oil...but who needs things like facts to get in the way of a war, right? http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2000/05/...ersh/index.html And let's hear it for US troops slaughtering Iraqis after the war is over. Yeah! That's some good patriotic Americanism of blowing away people after the war is over. Woo! Yeah Wait, seizing a large amount of the oil for a small cabal's control is evil, wrong and unacceptable. You might wanna let Bechtel and Halliburton in on that Nukey.

I should introduce you to my friend Paul, Nuke. He served in Gulf War I. He is now the president of the Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort because he saw through the US propaganda. Or Joe Miller...served in Vietnam and one of the many Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

 

As for the war on terror: According to all reports, post-Saddam Iraq has made the world LESS safe, not more safe. And we've yet to find one WMD to justify the invasion. And if you said well Saddam was...well that's fine, we can't find him either. And Bush hasn't found bin Laden either. You rail Clinton all the time for failing to do that yet never say a damn word about Bush. And it was Reagan and Bush that f***ing trained and armed bin Laden but yes of course, it's the liberals fault. The violent foreign policy follies in the name of American empire that the Republican regimes of Reagan and Bush had absolutely nothing to do with the culmination of 9/11

 

The war in Iraq. Yes, it is for oil Nuke. $2.30 a gallon is what Halliburton is charging the US government. Really Nuke...attacks everyday. Bombings...people without power...yeah they sound like that are really well off. And 'stopping him from developing' According to Bush he had them. There are no WMD. f***, even Powell said the morning of the UN speech that the speech Bush and Blair wanted him to read was "bulls***" [his quote] Pre-emptive war smacks waaaaay too much of labensraum to me. But then again, that's because it is labensraum.

 

Nuke the fact that you hold up the gun while the special interests and the corporate investers and lobbyists and PACs dictate foreign policy as to where you go is fine. You can be in the military. I am saying don't come off and justify all these wars as good and just because they f***ing weren't then, aren't now and never will be. People got used and abused and paid the ultimate price so some f***ing industrialist scumf***s could get richer. You should really read 'War is a Racket' Nuke. Hell you should just read any book. And that book is by a 33 year Marine vet. You may enjoy it.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Funny I never mentioned Bush anywhere in there in the previous post.  And the corporate controlled and genocidal is true and was actually a statement made when Rage Against the Machine was still together in 1999, before Bush took office...but then again, little things like facts never mattered before to you.  Tell me what the people at My Lai did to deserve getting massacred.  Tell me what the innocent civilians in Dresden did to deserve what they got.  Or how about the thousands of innocents at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 

 

I made a statement that even Smedley Butler [former USMC Commander] would have believed in that corporate interests have a vast influence in the White House and dictate heavily the foreign policy maneuvers that are made by our government.

 

Nuke, may I interject some FACTS into your drivel? 

 

WW II.  Bush's granddad, Prescott Bush actually was convicted under the Trading With the Enemy Act.  But I guess Dubya using the remnants of Nazi fortunes to run for President is nice and Patriotic.

 

And if we want to get into debates about our wars...let's go.  The Munich Post as early as Dec. 9, 1931 had stories about the Final Solution.  But the US corporations and governments envied the way that the Nazi busted unions [GM actually praised Hitler for his anti-union stance] And let's not forget the racial separatism that was going on in the military while we allowed the lynchings of blacks that tried to vote, race riots [Zoot Suit riots] etc. in America because minorities wanted civil rights yet we were 'making the world safe for democracy'?  That's f***ing laughable.

 

And what did we win in Korea?  Oh wait, we just had the senseless killing of thousands of people in something that didn't do anything.  Vietnam Nuke?  58,000 body bags and 2 million Vietnamese dead?  That's what we got.

 

Funny, you say that people should have free and democratic elections...but if they elect a government you don't like then you automatically have the "right" to go in and overthrow it.  How does that work? How dare the Vietnamese throw off the French colonialism and declare their independence!  Or a better idea, overthrow the democratically elected government of Chile and install a military dictator that tortures, multilates people and throws them out of helicopters for dissent!  Yeah that'll make the world safe for democracy and freedom! And let's not forget the big shining lie from Vietnam: The Gulf of Tonkin incident.  How can you blindly follow a nation that f***ing lied so 58,000 Americans could be shipped off to die using an event that NEVER f***ING HAPPENED.

 

Gulf War I: The facts actually are that the Kuwaitis were slant drilling into Iraq and stealing Iraqi oil...but who needs things like facts to get in the way of a war, right? http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2000/05/...ersh/index.html And let's hear it for US troops slaughtering Iraqis after the war is over.  Yeah!  That's some good patriotic Americanism of blowing away people after the war is over.  Woo!  Yeah        Wait, seizing a large amount of the oil for a small cabal's control is evil, wrong and unacceptable.  You might wanna let Bechtel and Halliburton in on that Nukey. 

I should introduce you to my friend Paul, Nuke.  He served in Gulf War I.  He is now the president of the Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort because he saw through the US propaganda.  Or Joe Miller...served in Vietnam and one of the many Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

 

As for the war on terror: According to all reports, post-Saddam Iraq has made the world LESS safe, not more safe.  And we've yet to find one WMD to justify the invasion.  And if you said well Saddam was...well that's fine, we can't find him either.  And Bush hasn't found bin Laden either.  You rail Clinton all the time for failing to do that yet never say a damn word about Bush.  And it was Reagan and Bush that f***ing trained and armed bin Laden but yes of course, it's the liberals fault.  The violent foreign policy follies in the name of American empire that the Republican regimes of Reagan and Bush had absolutely nothing to do with the culmination of 9/11

 

The war in Iraq.  Yes, it is for oil Nuke.  $2.30 a gallon is what Halliburton is charging the US government.  Really Nuke...attacks everyday.  Bombings...people without power...yeah they sound like that are really well off.  And 'stopping him from developing'  According to Bush he had them. There are no WMD.  f***, even Powell said the morning of the UN speech that the speech Bush and Blair wanted him to read was "bulls***" [his quote]  Pre-emptive war smacks waaaaay too much of labensraum to me.  But then again, that's because it is labensraum.

 

Nuke the fact that you hold up the gun while the special interests and the corporate investers and lobbyists and PACs dictate foreign policy as to where you go is fine.  You can be in the military.  I am saying don't come off and justify all these wars as good and just because they f***ing weren't then, aren't now and never will be.  People got used and abused and paid the ultimate price so some f***ing industrialist scumf***s could get richer.  You should really read 'War is a Racket' Nuke.  Hell you should just read any book.  And that book is by a 33 year Marine vet.  You may enjoy it.

People do tend to die in wars and sometimes those people are truly innocent. But that's just tough s***. Your "innocent" people of Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were indirectly responsible for the murder of 6 million Jews, the rape of China, the invasion and sacking of all of Europe save Britain, and millions upon millions of deaths worldwide, how, because they supported the regimes that conducted those atrocities. It wasn't forced support either, it was fanatical. Non-military people who support murderous regimes are just as guilty as those on the front lines pulling the trigger. I love how you whine about Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the destruction of those 2 cities averted the planned invasion of the Japanese home islands which would have turned Japan into a giant bloodbath with MILLIONS dead.

 

Weighing human life is never easy but please tell me how killing 150,000 people with 2 bombs is somehow preferable to killing, and I can't stress this enough, MILLIONS, in what would have amounted to a street fight on a national scale.

 

AHHH Your old friend Smedley. Tell me, did Smedley make his little speech in a world threatened with conquest by Nazi's? Did he make his speech in a world with nuclear armed and expansive minded communist totaliatarian regimes? Did he make his speech in a world where terrorists knock down skyscrapers and kill thousands in a single day. Say yes, I dare you. Dear old Smedley was living in fantasy world where America faced no threats and flexed its muscle against such powerhouses as , snicker, Spain and invaded small whimpy countries just for the hell of it. We don't do that anymore. To be sure, from World War 1 on we never fought a major war where a vital national interest, or our very saftey as a nation wasn't threatened. Please put old Smedly out to pasture. He was living in a fantasy world just like you are.

 

I don't really care to meet your friends either, they probably will spew more of the same leftist propoganda I hear from you so there is no point to that.

 

I nail Clinton because he did nothing to stop the emerging threat of global terrorism, no, I take that back, he hindered our efforts to stop it by gutting the military, law enforcement and intelligence gathering services. Now that we have a real president in office that actually has the balls to deal with the problem you are all mad.

 

Yes Reagan and Bush armed the Mujahaeeden. Why'd he do that? To help them fight off the Soviet invaders. You convientley overlook that fact every time, probably because of your fondness for communisim, but whatever.

 

"War is a racket" no. War is a necessary evil and always will be. Contrary to your utopian socialist beliefs not all the worlds problems can be solved by singing koom-ba-ya.

[mreye]

Thank you, Nuke! For your passion. For your enlisting. For your protection. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

People do tend to die in wars and sometimes those people are truly innocent. But that's just tough s***.  Your "innocent" people of Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were indirectly responsible for the murder of 6 million Jews, the rape of China, the invasion and sacking of all of Europe save Britain, and millions upon millions of deaths worldwide, how, because they supported the regimes that conducted those atrocities. It wasn't forced support either, it was fanatical.  Non-military people who support murderous regimes are just as guilty as those on the front lines pulling the trigger.  I love how you whine about Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the destruction of those 2 cities averted the planned invasion of the Japanese home islands which would have turned Japan into a giant bloodbath with MILLIONS dead. 

 

Weighing human life is never easy but please tell me how killing 150,000 people with 2 bombs is somehow preferable to killing, and I can't stress this enough, MILLIONS, in what would have amounted to a street fight on a national scale.

 

AHHH  Your old friend Smedley.  Tell me, did Smedley make his little speech in a world threatened with conquest by Nazi's?  Did he make his speech in a world with nuclear armed and expansive minded communist totaliatarian regimes?  Did he make his speech in a world where terrorists knock down skyscrapers and kill thousands in a single day.  Say yes, I dare you.  Dear old Smedley was living in fantasy world where America faced no threats and flexed its muscle against such powerhouses as , snicker, Spain and invaded small whimpy countries just for the hell of it.  We don't do that anymore.  To be sure, from World War 1 on we never fought a major war where a vital national interest, or our very saftey as a nation wasn't threatened.  Please put old Smedly out to pasture.  He was living in a fantasy world just like you are.

 

I don't really care to meet your friends either, they probably will spew more of the same leftist propoganda I hear from you so there is no point to that. 

 

I nail Clinton because he did nothing to stop the emerging threat of global terrorism, no, I take that back, he hindered our efforts to stop it by gutting the military, law enforcement and intelligence gathering services.  Now that we have a real president in office that actually has the balls to deal with the problem you are all mad. 

 

Yes Reagan and Bush armed the Mujahaeeden.  Why'd he do that?  To help them fight off the Soviet invaders.  You convientley overlook that fact every time, probably because of your fondness for communisim, but whatever.

 

"War is a racket"  no.  War is a necessary evil and always will be.  Contrary to your utopian socialist beliefs not all the worlds problems can be solved by singing koom-ba-ya.

So, babies born in Japan were responsible for the troops pulling the trigger. Yeah, sure.

And nice generalization that they were all fantatically behind it in Germany and Japan. You're talking to a person who had relatives in the Resistance movement inside Germany during WW II.

 

As for the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as imminent, that's a false claim. The supposed nuclear race with the Nazis, thanks to the declassification of government documents, has been proven to be a farce. According to the British Secret Intelligence Agency, by mid 1943, their contacts provided enough evidence that the program did not exist. Leslie Groves' program Alsos during WW II actually helped to prove this claim. Truman's own daughter said that the main reason that they were researching nukes was that it would be an upper hand in foreign policy moves with Russia [not that it would save lives in an invasion]

 

Author Marvin Perry even asserts that most analysts believe that Stalin and Russia was going to send the Red Army towards Japan but this was stopped by Truman because he didn't want them to develop a sphere of influence. And hey on June 15, 1945 the Joint Chiefs of Staff had a meeting and the Joint War Plans Committee had made a report at Truman's request saying an estimate of casualties for an invasion of Japan would be:

40,000 killed 150,000 wounded, 3,500 missing

So you can take your statement about millions of lives saved and blow it out your ass because the government didn't even believe that.

 

"I thought our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." - Dwight Eisenhower shortly after the Japanese surrender

 

And analyst Hanson Baldwin states: "The enemy, in a military sense, was in a hopeless strategic position...Such then was the position when we wiped out Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Need we have done it? No one can of course be positive but the answer is almost certainly negative. Even War Secretary Henry Stinson declared openly that the nuke was a diplomatic weapon against the Russians not that they wanted to save American lives.

 

Smedley Butler was actually alive during the war with the Nazis and did do a lot of speaking about how Hitler was evil but that the US was intervening with the wrong intentions [i.e. not peace, democracy etc. but rather economic influence.

 

Wait so Bush is going after Osama? Hmmm...I guess not catching him and having us invade Iraq instead is really catching him. It's been 700+ days and we can't find him...but we did get him a bunch more supporters in Al Qaeda.

 

Yes, the Soviets invaded. It is a short sighted and ill brained foreign policy move to train and give weapons to a group that hates you as much as they hate the Russians. But then again, that's just me and common sense talking. And if we would like for the record, most historians and experts in Russian history actually claim that Russia was never actually communist, it was more of a corrupted dictatorship and not truly communist at all.

 

War is indeed a racket. Just look at the $680,000,000+ Halliburton is making. The world's problems obviously aren't getting solved with blind aggression against a 3rd world dictator whose oil we wanted either. Look at the daily attacks and the spiked increase in membership of Al Qaeda.

 

Your use of straw man arguments is quite proficient, Nuke. You're really good at avoiding topics like the Gulf of Tonkin and how the US government lied to the military to send them off to die but yet you consistently believe everything they say and do despite the government having the track record of being a bunch of lying cocksuckers.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I'm really tiring quite quickly of debates with Nuke where he spouts drivel and I have correct him him with facts then the thread dies.