Elias didn't shutdown trade of Holliday

[Snowy Demon]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They quite literally quoted the guy.

"It's a tough one to trade," Elias said, according to MASN's Melanie Newman.

"He's the No. 1 prospect in minor league baseball. This is a hard talent to get your hands on. We have him, we've been developing him, and we've got very high hopes for him. He's exceptionally far ahead of anyone in his age group, so it's not something we're going to be eager to explore."

This is the only part from Elias.  Others on that article are speculations.  People can decide what he is saying here. 

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

"It's a tough one to trade," Elias said, according to MASN's Melanie Newman.

"He's the No. 1 prospect in minor league baseball. This is a hard talent to get your hands on. We have him, we've been developing him, and we've got very high hopes for him. He's exceptionally far ahead of anyone in his age group, so it's not something we're going to be eager to explore."

This is the only part from Elias.  Others on that article are speculations.  People can decide what he is saying here. 

You can't understand the difference between this and "no, we will not trade Holliday"? 

[Snowy Demon]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

You can't understand the difference between this and "no, we will not trade Holliday"? 

I understand perfectly.  If someone offers him Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, and Bryce Miller for Jackson Holliday; of course he will trade him.  Is this realistic?  Obviously not. 

Question is do you take this quote as saying he will trade Jackson Holliday?  

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

I understand perfectly.  If someone offers him Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, and Bryce Miller for Jackson Holliday; of course he will trade him.  Is this realistic?  Obviously not. 

Question is do you take this quote as saying he will trade Jackson Holliday?  

Are you just making stuff up?

[Snowy Demon]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Are you just making stuff up?

Making what up?  

As a negotiator, the first rule is to always leave options open.  That quote from Mike Elias is a perfect way to say he is not available unless a deal is too good to pass up.  There is nothing on that quote says Jackson Holliday is going to be traded.  

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

Making what up?  

As a negotiator, the first rule is to always leave options open.  That quote from Mike Elias is a perfect way to say he is not available unless a deal is too good to pass up.  There is nothing on that quote says Jackson Holliday is going to be traded.  

That was never said.  You are literally making up something. 

[Snowy Demon]

This SI article is making up something from what Mike Elias said.  Like I said originally, SI is not a reliable source.  

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

This SI article is making up something from what Mike Elias said.  Like I said originally, SI is not a reliable source.  

So we are back to Elias being a liar.

[Tnetennba]

7 hours ago, Snowy Demon said:

Honestly, the Orioles and the Mariners match up really well.  Something like Westburg plus for Kirby plus.  That helps both teams immediately.  

Seattle isn't trading from one of the best staffs in baseball. They have prospects that will get quality Major Leaguers, if they decide to be aggressive at the deadline.

[Snowy Demon]

2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Seattle isn't trading from one of the best staffs in baseball. They have prospects that will get quality Major Leaguers, if they decide to be aggressive at the deadline.

I agree, but above trade does kind of make sense for both.  That trade, however, does not make sense during trade deadline.  

[Tnetennba]

8 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

This SI article is making up something from what Mike Elias said.  Like I said originally, SI is not a reliable source.  

SI isn't the publication they used to be, but they aren't bleacher report. They still have some level of journalist standards.

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, Snowy Demon said:

I agree, but above trade does kind of make sense for both.  That trade, however, does not make sense during trade deadline.  

It makes zero sense for Seattle. Kirby would net way more than Westburg, and Baltimore doesn't give him up cheap. The M's need to add hitting, not worsen their best strength. Especially when they have multiple top 100 prospects. 

[Snowy Demon]

6 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

It makes zero sense for Seattle. Kirby would net way more than Westburg, and Baltimore doesn't give him up cheap. The M's need to add hitting, not worsen their best strength. Especially when they have multiple top 100 prospects. 

We can agree to disagree on this.  However, this is not a TDL type of a trade.  Very much an offseason trade.  Also, I listed as plus for both for a reason.  I do not think the Mariners having one of the worst hitting teams in MLB this year will give away their hitting prospects.  

[Quin]

17 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

SI isn't the publication they used to be, but they aren't bleacher report. They still have some level of journalist standards.

I was gonna say they're probably equal but you made me spot SI is using AI writers again.

Sean O'Leary!

Sean O'Leary 2!

Sean O'Leary 3!

Sean O'Leary 4!

[Chicago White Sox]

40 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

We can agree to disagree on this.  However, this is not a TDL type of a trade.  Very much an offseason trade.  Also, I listed as plus for both for a reason.  I do not think the Mariners having one of the worst hitting teams in MLB this year will give away their hitting prospects.  

I bet they give away some of them hitting them can help them win now.

[Dick Allen]

if they  trade Holliday, there's something messed up with him. The only way he's available is if he makes all Rick Hahn's busts look like potential HOFers.

[Snowy Demon]

19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I bet they give away some of them hitting them can help them win now.

I think the Mariners need more than 1 batter to help them.  They need some hitters who can provide batting average and good contact hitters.  Who could they get who can provide good contact and average?  

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

I think the Mariners need more than 1 batter to help them.  They need some hitters who can provide batting average and good contact hitters.  Who could they get who can provide good contact and average?  

While better balance would be nice, ultimately they just need to score more runs.  I don’t think they will discriminate on potential upgrades.

[Snowy Demon]

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

While better balance would be nice, ultimately they just need to score more runs.  I don’t think they will discriminate on potential upgrades.

That is one reason why I brought up Westburg and Kirby (or Gilbert).  Westburg is really good with 5 years control after this year.  The Mariners have been searching for 2B for a long time.  The Orioles can bring up Mayo, Holliday, or Norby.  Kirby is ace type with several years of control, but the Mariners can use Woo and Hancock.  Sure, both teams will be somewhat weaker on their strengths, but will make them much stronger by addressing their biggest needs.  This trade can be balanced out by adding other players.  Like I said, this is more likely an offseason trade.  

[Leonard Washington]

The only reason to make this thread is to scum gather the weird Baltimore people into one place. I applaud It. 

Edited July 8 by Leonard Washington

[caulfield12]

8 hours ago, Snowy Demon said:

We can agree to disagree on this.  However, this is not a TDL type of a trade.  Very much an offseason trade.  Also, I listed as plus for both for a reason.  I do not think the Mariners having one of the worst hitting teams in MLB this year will give away their hitting prospects.  

Now there's even a little bit of a question about Rodriguez's health (not long term), they're going to have to explore adding at least one more hitter.

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, Snowy Demon said:

That is one reason why I brought up Westburg and Kirby (or Gilbert).  Westburg is really good with 5 years control after this year.  The Mariners have been searching for 2B for a long time.  The Orioles can bring up Mayo, Holliday, or Norby.  Kirby is ace type with several years of control, but the Mariners can use Woo and Hancock.  Sure, both teams will be somewhat weaker on their strengths, but will make them much stronger by addressing their biggest needs.  This trade can be balanced out by adding other players.  Like I said, this is more likely an offseason trade.  

Westburg was the "forgotten" Orioles' prospect, along with Ortiz and Norby, coming into the offseason.  There's probably 2-3 others in the outfield beyond Cowser/Kjerstad/Bradfield/Beavers.  He's not suddenly going to be valued as a "stud" unless he can sustain this for the entire season, and even Beckham and Viciedo had four good/strong months in their rookie campaigns.  Buyers would have been investing in fool's gold at that point.

It looked like Jordan didn't even have an infield spot before the Holliday debacle in his first go-round.

Edited July 8 by caulfield12

[Snowy Demon]

35 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Westburg was the "forgotten" Orioles' prospect, along with Ortiz and Norby, coming into the offseason.  There's probably 2-3 others in the outfield beyond Cowser/Kjerstad/Bradfield/Beavers.  He's not suddenly going to be valued as a "stud" unless he can sustain this for the entire season, and even Beckham and Viciedo had four good/strong months in their rookie campaigns.  Buyers would have been investing in fool's gold at that point.

It looked like Jordan didn't even have an infield spot before the Holliday debacle in his first go-round.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2023/orioles/jordan-westburg-676059?affiliateId=mlbapp-android_webview

Not a forgotten prodpect by MLB circles.  He may have been overlooked by casual fans.  He was rated higher than Kjerstad in 2023.  He had WAR of 100 in 2023 and having a much better season in 2024.  He is also perfectly capable SS who will not play there in Baltimore for an obvious reason.  

[Tnetennba]

14 hours ago, Snowy Demon said:

That is one reason why I brought up Westburg and Kirby (or Gilbert).  Westburg is really good with 5 years control after this year.  The Mariners have been searching for 2B for a long time.  The Orioles can bring up Mayo, Holliday, or Norby.  Kirby is ace type with several years of control, but the Mariners can use Woo and Hancock.  Sure, both teams will be somewhat weaker on their strengths, but will make them much stronger by addressing their biggest needs.  This trade can be balanced out by adding other players.  Like I said, this is more likely an offseason trade.  

Woo has struggled to stay healthy this year and is a big question mark right now, and Hancock is a nice 5th starter quality guy, but neither can replace Kirby. 

M's have a perfectly capable defensive 2B in Ryan Bliss, and a quality UTIL in Dylan Moore. 2B is not what is killing them this year. They need more production from 1B, and the corner OF spots, along with a dependable pen arm or two. Trading Kirby for Westburg makes absolutely no sense for a Seattle team looking to win now.

[Snowy Demon]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Woo has struggled to stay healthy this year and is a big question mark right now, and Hancock is a nice 5th starter quality guy, but neither can replace Kirby. 

M's have a perfectly capable defensive 2B in Ryan Bliss, and a quality UTIL in Dylan Moore. 2B is not what is killing them this year. They need more production from 1B, and the corner OF spots, along with a dependable pen arm or two. Trading Kirby for Westburg makes absolutely no sense for a Seattle team looking to win now.

Thank you for making my point on Seattle infield situation.  Westburg is a vast improvement over all 4 with plus defense in at least 2 of those spots.